Oil Feed Issue - Boost Forum

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Oil Feed Issue
Wednesday, February 27, 2013 2:02 PM
Below is a quick diagram of the setup.


70psi off the in car sender. 10psi off the gauge on the turbo. Made this quick setup to try to test it and see where I was at.


This is coming off the port on the front of the block where the factory oil pressure sensor is. There is a T there. Debating on moving it to the back of the motor to see if I can get stuff figured out. I definitely didnt have 70psi coming out of the feed line. Thats what I'd want under load.

Where do the cobalts get the feed from? As well as the Saabs? Do they take feed off the back of the motor? Anyone have readouts of pressure from the ports? looking for 40psi at idle, 65ish under load.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edited Wednesday, February 27, 2013 6:26 PM



Re: Oil Feed Issue
Wednesday, February 27, 2013 3:34 PM
The Saabs pull from the back motor. My LK9 came with the feed line still attached, it used one of the 3 plugs back there...i think the center (which i dont think it should matter which)






Re: Oil Feed Issue
Wednesday, February 27, 2013 4:30 PM
Going to tear into it more tonight. Possibly relocate it to the back tonight and see what I come up with.



Re: Oil Feed Issue
Wednesday, February 27, 2013 5:33 PM
The head is not the factory location for oil sending unit on a Ecotec.

The head will read lower than block.



FU Tuning



Re: Oil Feed Issue
Wednesday, February 27, 2013 6:27 PM
Addicted to meth wrote:

The head is not the factory location for oil sending unit on a Ecotec.

The head will read lower than block.


typo, sorry i meant the block. its off the front of the block. plug closest to the filter housing. Going out now to probably relocate it to the back of the motor.



Re: Oil Feed Issue
Wednesday, February 27, 2013 9:48 PM
Mine is ran off of the lsj oil adapter which I know you don't have but I would say you could prolly see better numbers pod the back


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Re: Oil Feed Issue
Thursday, February 28, 2013 8:38 AM
There is nothing wrong with your set-up.

You should only have a few PSI of oil pressure in your turbo, hardly anything at all.

Your gauge in the car reads 70psi because it is in a closed system, the gauge on your turbo is not.

That -3an line is dumping into those fittings, which then dumps into your turbo and all the pressure is lost as it drains out of the turbo.


I don't think anything is wrong at all with what you have going on, if you have 70psi of oil pressure inside your turbo you would blow massive amounts of oil past the seals.

Put the gauge directly on the -3an line going to the turbo and it would read 70psi.

Obviously if you try that don't run the car for long as you will no longer be oiling the turbo.





Re: Oil Feed Issue
Thursday, February 28, 2013 3:58 PM
Journal bearing turbos like mine would like 65psi of oil. When I stuck the feed line in a bottle it was definitely not coming out at 70psi. Would be spraying out like a fire hose. Was not th.

Ended up ditching the -3an. Getting to that back port was a bitch with that coolant pipe, and turbo manifold in the way. Pain in the ass. Got the last fitting I need today to pretty much finish it up. Also will have the ability to put a restrictor in line if need be. Not pretty or the best solution but it should work. Will post pic later.



Re: Oil Feed Issue
Thursday, February 28, 2013 4:30 PM
I'm also talking journal bearing turbos.

Yes, they like a 65psi source...but not 65psi in the turbo itself, if you have 65psi in the turbo oil housing you would blow oil past the seals instantly.

If you have a source thats regulated at 65psi and hook up a line to it and just leave the other end open and try to take a pressure reading midway on the line it will be no where near 65psi.

Its like a garden hose, turn on the tap and water will come out (municipal water source is generally ~20psi), kink the line off for a few seconds the line will build pressure equal to that of the source (the watermain).

Now release the kink and water will come out with a much greater velocity for a second or two, then go back to normal once it bleeds off the pressure. The water main still has 20psi in it, but your garden hose doesn't.

Pressure is just resistance, you took a normally closed system (well not totally closed, its regulated by the oil journals/engine bearings) and left one end basically vented to atmosphere, thus eliminating a large amount of resistance.

The oil passages in the motor still have 65psi since the oil pump can keep up with the volume, but no way it can keep 65psi in the line if it is vented to atmosphere.

This is why journal bearing turbos need such large drain lines, so that the oil housing in the turbo doesn't build any pressure.




Re: Oil Feed Issue
Thursday, February 28, 2013 5:14 PM
Here is a picture of where they get the oil feed on the 9-3.
Attachments
113636331.gif (27k)

Re: Oil Feed Issue
Thursday, February 28, 2013 9:50 PM
jealous of that saab hard line. I hate trying to get my big hands in behind the motor. going to be interesting tightening the fitting to the block.

Newt, I get what you are saying, the guy I use to rebuild turbo's said flowing 65psi into a -4 line would be plenty of oil and not blow the seals out. I get what you are saying. Ball bearings need drops of oil. Journal needs to flood to float that bearing out so it doesnt hurt the shaft.




Re: Oil Feed Issue
Friday, March 01, 2013 7:53 AM
You realize off the block you can get 125 psi of pressure.

I have seen stock peg a 125 psi gauge.m

Also seen built do the same. That is why when a friend was feeding his journal bearing turbo from the back of e block and puffing smoke out the tail pipe, we moved it to the head. Smoke pretty much went away instantly. Turbo had to be rebuilt because seals were blown and all is good now with 15k on the setup.



FU Tuning



Re: Oil Feed Issue
Friday, March 01, 2013 11:26 AM
Addicted to meth wrote:

You realize off the block you can get 125 psi of pressure.

I have seen stock peg a 125 psi gauge.m

Also seen built do the same. That is why when a friend was feeding his journal bearing turbo from the back of e block and puffing smoke out the tail pipe, we moved it to the head. Smoke pretty much went away instantly. Turbo had to be rebuilt because seals were blown and all is good now with 15k on the setup.


Had mine on the head and it was showing 40psi on cold start, but 10-15 once warmed up. under full load it got to maybe 20psi? That turbo is fried and long gone since it ended up developing a TON of shaft play. Im going to run a -4an feed, and if need be run a .065 restrictor if I have to.



Re: Oil Feed Issue
Friday, March 01, 2013 3:49 PM
BuiltNBoosted wrote:

jealous of that saab hard line. I hate trying to get my big hands in behind the motor. going to be interesting tightening the fitting to the block.

Newt, I get what you are saying, the guy I use to rebuild turbo's said flowing 65psi into a -4 line would be plenty of oil and not blow the seals out. I get what you are saying. Ball bearings need drops of oil. Journal needs to flood to float that bearing out so it doesnt hurt the shaft.


I have 2 saab lines just sitting here...believe oil and coolant, may even have some banjo bolts for them...if you'd wanna see if they work for you, cover shipping and they're all yours.






Re: Oil Feed Issue
Friday, March 01, 2013 7:58 PM
EVILution (KGMs FrankenCav) wrote:

BuiltNBoosted wrote:

jealous of that saab hard line. I hate trying to get my big hands in behind the motor. going to be interesting tightening the fitting to the block.

Newt, I get what you are saying, the guy I use to rebuild turbo's said flowing 65psi into a -4 line would be plenty of oil and not blow the seals out. I get what you are saying. Ball bearings need drops of oil. Journal needs to flood to float that bearing out so it doesnt hurt the shaft.


I have 2 saab lines just sitting here...believe oil and coolant, may even have some banjo bolts for them...if you'd wanna see if they work for you, cover shipping and they're all yours.


I appreciate the hell out of that. But I do believe that I got mine figured out. Not to mention the placement of my turbo vs the saab is WAY different. Again it is much appreciated.



Re: Oil Feed Issue
Friday, March 01, 2013 8:05 PM
So did you put a an banjo in there?



Re: Oil Feed Issue
Friday, March 01, 2013 9:08 PM
banjo in where?

im using the autometer 2278 adapter off the block, then a 1/8" npt to -4an to the line I made tonight, into the turbo.


Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Friday, March 01, 2013 9:47 PM


Re: Oil Feed Issue
Saturday, March 02, 2013 1:40 PM
My oil feed setup is from the rear of the cylinder head close to where the EGR port is cast in on the earlier heads. I've never had problems with my setup.




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Re: Oil Feed Issue
Saturday, March 02, 2013 6:04 PM
EVILution (KGMs FrankenCav) wrote:

BuiltNBoosted wrote:

jealous of that saab hard line. I hate trying to get my big hands in behind the motor. going to be interesting tightening the fitting to the block.

Newt, I get what you are saying, the guy I use to rebuild turbo's said flowing 65psi into a -4 line would be plenty of oil and not blow the seals out. I get what you are saying. Ball bearings need drops of oil. Journal needs to flood to float that bearing out so it doesnt hurt the shaft.


I have 2 saab lines just sitting here...believe oil and coolant, may even have some banjo bolts for them...if you'd wanna see if they work for you, cover shipping and they're all yours.


I could use some saab lines...



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Re: Oil Feed Issue
Sunday, March 03, 2013 9:23 AM
Hope you get this figured and worked out.. Im in for seeing how this works out!!
Re: Oil Feed Issue
Sunday, March 03, 2013 7:18 PM
Nothing productive to say but pressure is mostly a function of the size of the line. 65 psi through a tiny line is different than 65 psi through a giant tube. If you up size a line with the same volume of fluid being supplied you will see a drop in pressure. It doesn't necessarily mean that you're not getting the volume of oil you need with a lower pressure.




Re: Oil Feed Issue
Sunday, March 03, 2013 7:30 PM
Brian (TheSundownFire) wrote:

Nothing productive to say but pressure is mostly a function of the size of the line. 65 psi through a tiny line is different than 65 psi through a giant tube. If you up size a line with the same volume of fluid being supplied you will see a drop in pressure. It doesn't necessarily mean that you're not getting the volume of oil you need with a lower pressure.


True. I understand. Its just like saying boost psi for a sc is different for a car with intake and header. I just wish there was an easy way to measure it. I just want to be able to flood my turbo enough, but not too much. I need to just move the oil pressure sensor somewhere...



Re: Oil Feed Issue
Thursday, March 07, 2013 10:20 AM
Got my line made... only had to cut it 20 times which was a pain in the ass. But got it all plumbed up, wired in, started the car and it reads around 40psi cold and 20psi warmed up. Thats right at the turbo so i have a feeling its right where I want to be! Tuning is my last step now.



Re: Oil Feed Issue
Thursday, March 07, 2013 11:17 AM
so you are tapping the block passage by the water junction? Did you have to take off the water pipe to get it out?



Re: Oil Feed Issue
Thursday, March 07, 2013 11:43 AM
Yeah thats the port. And No I didnt.. I reached up from the bottom with the 6mm hex key socket. using 2 fingers got it in the plug. Then from the top maneuvered the flex joint into the hex key socket. then stuck a 2ft long extension down in the bay and got the plug out. To put the autometer adapter in, i first threaded the -4 to 1/8" NPT before screwing it into the block. then i taped the fitting to the socket and threaded it in best I could. Went in from the bottom with a stubby 3/4 wrench. Best part, to get the -4 line started, i had to tape the swivel part of the fitting to the rest of the line and just spin the line until it was semi tight. then reached under with a wrench. such a pain. if the manifold wasnt there it would have been easier. but im not spending 2 hours taking the turbo off only to do the little fitting.

very tight under there for sure.



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