I am trying to get a hold of explolited brian to make me up a 62mm t/b spacer that i can tap into. Making that cant be too expensive. I will keep you guys updated.
Update:
I began the install of my alcohol injection system this weekend. Everything is looking very promising at this point. The injector is mounted on the intake/PCV hose spacer from my supercharger kit and pointing toward the throttle body. The pump is mounted off of the driver's shock tower. I've pressure tested the entire system and it's rock solid (the injector line is actually pressurized at this very moment). I also determined that my pump is strong enough to pump the alcohol from the trunk. This is a relief because my 2 gallon tank was a really tight fit in the driver's side of the front bumper.
All that's left to do is to is the following:
Mount the alcohol tank in the trunk
Run the feed line from the engine to the trunk
Wire the e-manage to control the injector
Wire the low level sensor to an LED on my gaugepod
Wire the power for the pump
Experiment with different mixtures
I'll post pictures tomorrow if I get some time to finish the system.
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very
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Mr. Pute - My only concern i have about your set up is... how well the Alcohol is going to travel threw the Supercharger blades...I know it wont ruin the coating, but the supercharger is a positive displacement unit, and fluids do not compress...
Freebs wrote:Mr. Pute - My only concern i have about your set up is... how well the Alcohol is going to travel threw the Supercharger blades...I know it wont ruin the coating, but the supercharger is a positive displacement unit, and fluids do not compress...
How do you figure that that's a problem? It will go through just fine.
Here's my updated pictures.
You can see the pump on the shock tower:
My alcohol tank (I call it my mobile microbrew, hehe):
Sorry I don't have a pic of the injector. The only things left do now are to run that hose to the front of the vehicle and do all of the wiring (pump, low level LED, injector to e-manage). Then I can have some fun
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Looks like you have a Surflo pump. Thats the same pump that I am using
. It has held up to straight methanol for a little bit over 7 months.
275hp & 306tq - 1999 2.2 ohv
13.2 @ 108 mph
-1996 2.4 liter + Turbo + Built motor + Torco + More boost = Lots o' Power
-2000 Mustang GT + 2004 Cobra motor, Whipple 2.3 supercharger,
built rear-end,Dodge Viper spec T56 6 speed, bolt-ons = wheelies at the track!!!!!
Which is why I bought it
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I figured since the way the S/C works by compressing the air and forcing it in... how would it compress liquids? i mean i am not saying it wont work... but when it comes to either the liquids giving or the parts of the s/c because the liquids wont compress, i think the s/c would be first.. either way let me know how it works... because if it does work it will save me the pain of taking the s/c off and getting each port drilled on the supercharger and getting 4 injectors.
^^^ You won't actually be spraying liquid into the S/C, it will be a very fine mist. I think you have the idea that you will be spraying a huge amount of water into the S/C which is not the case.
Mr. Pute: I'm assuming that your going to run a smaller pulley with this setup so I would recomend wiring a light to your pump so that you know that it is operating properly. I know with some of the water to air IC kits for the 3800's the pump can fail and then you risk blowing up your engine without even knowing that there is a problem. Just a very cheap procaution that could save your engine some day. Good luck with your setup, I look forward to hearing about the results.
For everyone else here is a great post by "dvldoc" from ClubGP. He has done pretty much everything that involves injection (including propane) and he knows his stuff. This is a great thread for the DIY type and shows you just what parts you will need...
DIY Alky/Water injection parts list
Quoth the Raven 'Nevermore
raven@accesswave.ca
Raven Autosports
55 McQuade Lake Cres,
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
(902) 850-3330
10.82@132
what u gonna be using for a reservoir?? i was thinking of getting a second stock washer fluid reservoir, and mounting it right on top(next to)the stock one (where the bong used to be) and cutting the tube off and putting a flexible extension on it where it mounts to the reservoir (in the fender) so u cant see the flexible part, and having the fill neck come out of the 2nd hole where the stock intake used to connect to the bong, so you will basically have the fill for the alcohol injection kit right behind the fill for the washerfluid. sounds like it might be a chore to do but i bet it would look sweet in the end.
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-Bryan Dube
Team Drop Zone
Vice President
Freebs,
If you put your hand into the s/c, it's going to end up in your engine
Regardless if it's a fine mist or not, it will go through. Actually, most of these put together kits you see that are being offered as generic kits don't shoot a complete mist. They still have somewhat of a stream coming out of them. I saw a video on a webpage for one of them. I'll see if I can find it soon.
Raven,
I've had a 2.6" pulley on the car for about a month now. It runs fine until the s/c heats up. Then the car feels like it never had the pulley change in the first place. The alcohol injection will cure that problem for me. Thanks for the light suggestion.
ScoobyZ24,
Not sure if you're talking to me or not but there's a pic of my tank up a couple posts. If you are planning on using a tank larger than one gallon, you can forget about throwing it in the fender. Otherwise, more power to ya.
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What i meant was using a 2nd factory washerfluid tank for the injection, so u dont have to have a tank in the trunk, you can just make a couple of brackets and mount it right Next to the factory washerfluid tank, so you will have 2 washer fluid tanks in the bumper area side by side, all u gotta do is cut teh filler of the 2nd tank and place it right behind the filler for the washerfluid and then connect it, so you will have both fillers right up top near the battery.
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-Bryan Dube
Team Drop Zone
Vice President
raven - i have that list from that site allready. but thanks again though as that is a great parts list. I emailed the guy and asked him a few ?s and said thanks for putting that together.
I still wonder if i should run alcohol or windshield washer fluid threw there. hmm
looks nice Mr pute.
Scoobyz24 wrote:What i meant was using a 2nd factory washerfluid tank for the injection, so u dont have to have a tank in the trunk, you can just make a couple of brackets and mount it right Next to the factory washerfluid tank, so you will have 2 washer fluid tanks in the bumper area side by side, all u gotta do is cut teh filler of the 2nd tank and place it right behind the filler for the washerfluid and then connect it, so you will have both fillers right up top near the battery.
I know what you meant. I'm saying it's more of a pain to do that though. It's way easier to throw it in the trunk. Not to mention you can have a bigger container to hold fluid.
Jake, thanks yo
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Has anyone tried out a kit that is used on the Grand Nationals/Turbo T's? they have a decent setup that is quite tunable and i'm fairly impressed with it. I've been checking into the S/C setup and am thinking of doing a Boosted setup with a "wet" nitrous kit but spraying alcohol instead of fuel.
as for the water injection that was said in this thread, its not really a good way to go, think about it water will not burn it evaporates into steam and can actually build up compression in an engine (ever heard of "locking" an engine up? not a good thing) the alcohol,etc will burn and is a much better setup to use.
_______________________
** Flat Broke Racing Inc.**
Mr. Pute - sorry if i come off as trying to prove you wrong... i am not trying to at all... i am just doing some research and what not... and i hope your set up works because i will be next in line to do this if you are successfull... and by the way your set up looks nice and cleanly done..
Manitoba Motorsports - If mr. putes works out, i will be using the same set up my dad has in his 87 Buick GNX just there will be a throttle position sensor to control when it comes on. And as for the water thing... i think he might have meant a mix of water/alcohol... and even if he did mean straight water i know there are kits out there that just use distilled water... and from what i hear it works good... actually using this water, or alcohol or the mix will steam clean your engine in side...
Manitoba Motorsports wrote:Has anyone tried out a kit that is used on the Grand Nationals/Turbo T's? they have a decent setup that is quite tunable and i'm fairly impressed with it. I've been checking into the S/C setup and am thinking of doing a Boosted setup with a "wet" nitrous kit but spraying alcohol instead of fuel.
as for the water injection that was said in this thread, its not really a good way to go, think about it water will not burn it evaporates into steam and can actually build up compression in an engine (ever heard of "locking" an engine up? not a good thing) the alcohol,etc will burn and is a much better setup to use.
Steam is a gas buddy
Hydrolock will ONLY occur if the water is in the liquid stage. Here's more info:
Abnormally high cylinder pressures can bend and break pistons, piston pins, connecting rods, crankshafts and ruin bearings and can crack or break cylinder heads and engine blocks. Small amounts of liquids may pass through an engine cycle without damage, but volumes exceeding 40cc (1.4 fluid ounces, <3 tablespoons) will cause many engines to develop cylinder pressures well in excess of 1000psi. A larger volume of water, up to the combustion chamber volume (usually 60cc to 100cc), will generate increasingly high cylinder pressure during the completion of the compression stroke.
Volumes of water which exceed the combustion chamber volume will "stop" a running engine through true hydrostatic lock. Something expensive always bends or breaks when this happens.
Even though I'd never spray at idle (retarded since your TB is closed and you're going nowhere), 900rpms equates to roughly 0.066666.... seconds to 1 rotation of the engine.
Our cylinder heads (the LD9 at least) are roughly 58.9 cc-60.1 cc in volume (pulled from GM specs). Let's use the smaller value just for the hell of it.
Let's also assume that since the compression stroke happens every 2 rotations, that the time is doubled for the fill process........0.133333333....
58.9cc of fluid per 0.13333333...seconds equates to roughly 450cc per second! This means, I would have to have a 27,000cc/min rated injector to hydrolock an LD9 at idle!!!!
I'm using a stock 210cc/min injector for my system. Even at 60psi, the injector only puts out 246cc/min (the standard pressure for fuel injector ratings is 43.2psi). This is roughly 0.7% of what's required to hydrolock the engine.
You catch my drift?
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Freebs - the alcohol kit will work fine with the S/C, its been done before just not on a jbody
Personally i love the GN setup, i've been tuning those 3.8L's for 2 years now. my buddy nick has a 87 Turbo T with a near stock turbo, and alcohol injection running 94 octane mohawk gas (ethonal blended) he ran 11.7 @112.7MPH last year (with the exhaust uncapped, running through STOCK exhaust it hit 12.0 and that was without lockup), this year we did a small cam, and a torque converter he also beefed up the rear axle abit. Looking for low 11's this year (he was also running @ 100% duty cycle on the injectors, the fuel pump couldnt keep up (no not stock on injectors or pump)
Mr Pute - What i meant by the steem is that it will not burn like a fuel with so its like waist in the engine although it does a good job at cooling.
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** Flat Broke Racing Inc.**
Manitoba Motorsports wrote:What i meant by the steem is that it will not burn like a fuel with so its like waist in the engine although it does a good job at cooling.
It's not waste if it gets rid of carbon deposits and cleans your engine out. It's also not a waste if it cools the combustion chamber and exhaust track...
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no but alcohol will do the same thing as water, it will also clean the inside of the engine like water, and because its combustable there is no (not sure how to put it into words) but "waist" there. Have you ever pulled an engine apart that had alcohol run through it? hell i'd eat of that piston!
i do agree that both methods do what they're supposed to, just looking at the "pros/cons" of each setup
_______________________
** Flat Broke Racing Inc.**
I never said alcohol won't do the same thing as water. That wasn't the debate. The debate at the time was the fact that you said the water was a "waste."
In my case, it's not a matter of which I think is better, it's a matter of which is
safer.
Granted yes, straight alcohol provides a wonderful cooling and cleaning effect to the engine. However, it is highly volatile. I single stray spark on my daily driven car will ignite that line all the way to my tank in the trunk. I'll have the back of my neck blown off. Therefore, I'm forced to use a mix. Anything at or below 50/50 alcohol/water mix is non-volatile.
Straight up alcohol is better (better than that is straight methanol), but I need to play it safe. I'm sure all of you would agree on that.
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mr pute,
any info on the projected gains with the alcohol injection. Im talking dyno charts......
