Tuning Issues, help a poor guy out! - Tuning Forum

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Tuning Issues, help a poor guy out!
Tuesday, November 29, 2005 11:40 AM
Right now i am doing the cartech FMU, 370cc injectors and SAFC w/ an Areomotive adjustble fuel pressure regulator on 9.5 - 10 psi... The car surges and stalls at every light it seems... worse in traffic. base fuel pressure is set to 30 and i am at -40 on the afc at 1k rpm low. even if i go to -50 or -30 either way it does the same damn thing. the problem just don't wanna seem to clear up at all. I have no vacuum leaks that i know of and i use clean fuel and have cleaned the injectors before. The engine has a whooping 700 miles on it as of right now. I am not happy at all with this tuning set up.

Instead of having all this i am lookin at greddy emanage ultimate with the areo AFPR. I am lookin to up the boost to 12-13 pounds with 440's real soon and would like to finally cure this problem. i just want to be able to drive this damn thing like a normal car again. it drives so nice on highway.

My question is: do u think emanage ultimate will do what i want? Tune the 440's on 12-13 pounds and give me more adjustability and drivability to my car?

And don't tell me to get megasquirt or full standalone. I don't have the money for full standalone and not to thrilled with the MS system. Thanks!


http://www.cardomain.com/id/StylezTA

Re: Tuning Issues, help a poor guy out!
Tuesday, November 29, 2005 12:27 PM
97blkZ24 wrote:

Instead of having all this i am lookin at greddy emanage ultimate with the areo AFPR. I am lookin to up the boost to 12-13 pounds with 440's real soon and would like to finally cure this problem. i just want to be able to drive this damn thing like a normal car again. it drives so nice on highway.

What are your plugs gapped at?

97blkZ24 wrote:

My question is: do u think emanage ultimate will do what i want? Tune the 440's on 12-13 pounds and give me more adjustability and drivability to my car?

Adjustability? I doubt it. With 440cc injectors instead of the 370's you're running now, you would have to tune them down a hell of alot more.

Drivability? Sorta. Sure, it'll drive once you get them tuned, but 440cc injectors will suck gas like a high-class hooker! Mustang Cobra's (5.0L 302ci V8's) only come with 30# (315cc) injectors!

If SAFC isn't doing anything for you, I don't know what to tell you. Maybe it is hooked up wrong?

I personally don't have any experience with eManage... but from what I've read, I don't think it'll work with our low-impedance injectors.

I have 35# (367.5cc) TOMCO injectors, Accel AFPR (tuned down to 30psi), Cartech FMU, and *no* SAFC. I was told the car wouldn't run correctly without being able to tune the injectors down. No clue why it runs so great. The turbo is pushing 8-9psi. I still have some minor fuel tuning to do with the Cartech, but other than that, the car is running awesme. Idles like stock. I don't really care for the resonation I have through the entire body of the car or the DEEP (and I mean DEEP) sound coming from my exhaust, but that's not fuel-related and I'll have to live with it for now.

97blkZ24 wrote:

And don't tell me to get megasquirt or full standalone. I don't have the money for full standalone and not to thrilled with the MS system. Thanks!

Yeah, Megasquirt seems to need alot of work, but I can see it as being a more customizable system. Think of Windows -vs.- any distribution of Linux. Yep, you got it--Windows is more user-friendly and looks pretty, but not near as stable or customizable as Linux. Sorta the same with eManage -vs.- Megasquirt, since it's dealing with settings much like a simple computer. Stability is irrelevant between the two, since what they do is so simple, but Megasquirt seems much more "tweakable". You're probably going to have $500+ in a decent eManage Ultimate setup, whereas the Megasquirt setup would probably cost half as much. Granted, you'd have ALOT more work in it, but certainly worth it if you have the time. All the resources are HERE to get MS to work correctly (help from JBO members and the forums) and you'll be saving a decent chunk of money.

If it worked with our cars (95-99, I think is when low-impedance injectors were used), and I needed some kind of management system, I'd definately get the eManage. I personally don't like screwing with things. That kind of contradicts the whole last paragraph I posted, haha.

Final conclusion: If you have the brains, go with Megasquirt. If you just want it to work and don't care to spend more, get eManage. In your case (and mine), eManage won't work for you/us. So we're kinda screwed.



Re: Tuning Issues, help a poor guy out!
Tuesday, November 29, 2005 12:56 PM
if you do go emanage, i have also heard things about it not liking low impedence injectors, but either does megasquirt. you can always fix that problem by switching to high impedence injectors or use resistors to change the impedence of the injectors.

i personally wanted to go emanage, but i wanted to try something different and actually see i could do megasquirt. so i went with megasquirt and i love it and i'm glad i went that way, but i'm not you.



Re: Tuning Issues, help a poor guy out!
Tuesday, November 29, 2005 1:36 PM
Volumeking333 wrote:

if you do go emanage, i have also heard things about it not liking low impedence injectors, but either does megasquirt. you can always fix that problem by switching to high impedence injectors or use resistors to change the impedence of the injectors.

i personally wanted to go emanage, but i wanted to try something different and actually see i could do megasquirt. so i went with megasquirt and i love it and i'm glad i went that way, but i'm not you.


funny I dont ever remember reasing MS doesn't like low impedance, even during the hours I spent reading the site....


it's the may not be the easiest but it is the cheapest for fuel management, and I know soemoen here would give you all the base maps needed



LE61T PTE6262 Powered

Re: Tuning Issues, help a poor guy out!
Tuesday, November 29, 2005 1:50 PM
The Megasquirt system handles low and high impedance injectors just fine. With low impedance injectors, you can actually tweak the voltage/current (pulse width modulation), so you can tailor the system to your specific injectors so you not only get good performance/long life with them, but you also don't burn out the injector drivers or damage the injectors.




Re: Tuning Issues, help a poor guy out!
Tuesday, November 29, 2005 6:37 PM
plugs are gapped at .040 or .035 i forget. put em in awhile ago. I don't care about the sucking down gas. gas doesn't bother me. i just want the car to stop at a stop light and not surge for 10 seconds and then stall out. its so embarrasing and annoying. I am tired of playing with the afc... yes the afc is installed correctly. all the sensors checks read fine and it works properly. i have just heard some crappy things on MS from people who have had it and i don't wanna throw anymore money into this car then i have to (have more important projects with a lot more potential).


http://www.cardomain.com/id/StylezTA
Re: Tuning Issues, help a poor guy out!
Tuesday, November 29, 2005 6:42 PM
I run my base pressure at 36 psi I know if its much more then 43 or so it stalls out as well.. turn it down



LE61T PTE6262 Powered

Re: Tuning Issues, help a poor guy out!
Tuesday, November 29, 2005 6:58 PM
Re: Tuning Issues, help a poor guy out!
Tuesday, November 29, 2005 7:10 PM
hmm, then I do not know..

you said you have the safc turned all the way down at idle?



LE61T PTE6262 Powered

Re: Tuning Issues, help a poor guy out!
Tuesday, November 29, 2005 7:17 PM
i have the same problem. Must be something with the safc. No matter which way I turn it the car dies. Embarassing yes, and it is not my fuel pump but my wideband goes extrememly lean when it dies . Go figure, going lean with walbro 255 an aeromotive fpr and 440cc injectors. lol I wish i knew also. I bet it is something in the safc. Giving up hope on this thing and its only been on two weeks. I am going with emanage with my reflash instead of the safc.


01 Z24 Turbo MMMM YUMMY
Re: Tuning Issues, help a poor guy out!
Tuesday, November 29, 2005 8:04 PM
thats exactly my problem! everytime it starts to do i i stare at my wideband... it goes... 14.....12.....17...18... dead. lol.

QBE i have the afc at -40 no matter where i adjust it it still does it.

dragracemyz24... i actually took my walbro out and put my stock pump back in. call me crazy but the problem got so much better for my driveability. instead of the car driving like @!#$ and idling like @!#$... it just idles like @!#$ now. car pulls like an ape top end for some reason now. then again my car is so ass backwards.. i have so many problems no one else has.


http://www.cardomain.com/id/StylezTA

Re: Tuning Issues, help a poor guy out!
Tuesday, November 29, 2005 10:50 PM
Check your feed line that goes from the pump to the sending unit. Mine was kinked causing the pump to overheat and shut the car down



Re: Tuning Issues, help a poor guy out!
Wednesday, November 30, 2005 3:11 AM
i have checked multiple times, no kinks, and the worst part is the car starts right back up and will idle then do it again the second i move a couple feet in traffic


http://www.cardomain.com/id/StylezTA
Re: Tuning Issues, help a poor guy out!
Wednesday, November 30, 2005 7:30 AM
Do you have a pressure gauge tapped anywhere in your fuel system/lines?
I had some trouble with my car stalling because my AFPR was stuck open. Fuel was dumping into the engine no matter what the throttle position and I couldn't keep any pressure in the rail. This probably isn't your problem due to leaning out before you stall, but pressure readings might help diagnose the problem. Good luck....
Re: Tuning Issues, help a poor guy out!
Wednesday, November 30, 2005 11:31 AM
fuel pressure gauge on the rail. reads consistent 30. doesn't go up or down


http://www.cardomain.com/id/StylezTA
Re: Tuning Issues, help a poor guy out!
Wednesday, November 30, 2005 11:31 AM
fuel pressure gauge on the rail. reads consistent 30. doesn't go up or down unless i rev the engine


http://www.cardomain.com/id/StylezTA
Re: Tuning Issues, help a poor guy out!
Wednesday, November 30, 2005 11:47 AM
Are you perhaps creating the problem with the SAFC? I know every car is different but I have larger injectors than you, higher base pressure, and I am only pulling 10% up until 2800. At that point I have a solid 11.0-12.0 A/F up until about 5500 when I start hitting higher 12's, lower 13's so I add 10%.

You got it right.....you are the king of mystery turbo problems. I'm thanking the turbo gods that my problems are straightforward: Too rich, ruins plugs, needs oil changed more frequently, smells like poo........
Re: Tuning Issues, help a poor guy out!
Wednesday, November 30, 2005 2:48 PM
lol smells like poop he says.
I have determined it to be one of two things. The O2 sensor is taking a crap. or the safc is causing this problem. I just installed a brand new aeromotive regulator so it is not the afpr but thankyou for the advise. And I have checked for kinks in my system also and come up with nothing. Here is what happens.

The car is cold and in open loop. It runs rich but runs fine. So i adjust my afpr down to make the a/f ratio better and once the car heats up and goes into closed loop it goes way way lean at idle and dies.
So i tried leaving the fuel pressure up even though it was running dog rich on the 440s at idle thinking maybe I could just deal with the rich cold start since it may work fine in closed loop . But no it didn't work either. As soon as the car gets to operating tempature , even a little before. It is like clockwork, I can watch my wideband go 11 12 13 17 18 19 and BAM dead wherever I am. SO I have been two footing it alot since I am auto and with my car at 1k rpm I can manage to keep it running. anything under and it dies.


01 Z24 Turbo MMMM YUMMY
Re: Tuning Issues, help a poor guy out!
Wednesday, November 30, 2005 3:13 PM
that sounds like a nasty problem .......

I had this too with my 2.2 turbo ....... 2200 turbo...whatever....

n e ways .... it used to stall out, show lean, black smoke from the exhaust and boom.. stall.
I'd start the car back up and it was fine ..... then Randomly it would start to do it again.

go figure I shut it down before it stalls out ..... start it back up and Boom FINE AGAIN ....
next light same thing Dies out .......

then start it again and fine for 5 hours... not a HINT of problem, rich idle, NOTHING ..

so I wonder... o2 sensor......

I kept doing this for a little while...... I found out that since I relocated my o2 sensor from its orginial 3 feet from the turbo to a closer healthier 4" from the turbo.. it bogged stalled and wined, bitch and moaned for couple of days...... I just reset the ecu a whole WACK of times like probably 10 times (everytime I stopped somewhere I'd disconnect the battery).....and let the sensor get used to the hotter more realistic readings and the car started to run fine and haven't had the problem since..... I really do think this is o2 sensor related.... specially since I saw the post about SAFC and tapping into the o2 wire will mess with what the ECU learns since we have "learning ecu's".... or something a long those line..........
not saying the SAFC is doing anything because I heard a lot of opinions that were different.....

But it definitely sounds like a computer/sensor related problem ...

sorry I couldn't be more help.

Lee


JDM Civic Hatch
Status: Parting Out Turbo Kit....
14.224 @ 102.01MPH @ 5.5psi.... 2.3 60'
Next: Civic JDM B16a2 w/GSR LSD Turbo - Goal 300whp 1400lbs...
Re: Tuning Issues, help a poor guy out!
Wednesday, November 30, 2005 6:31 PM
dragracemyz24 - my problems are somewhat like urs... in the cold right now the car starts up and idles around 11.4:1 as the car warms up to operating temperature (near 195) it reaches mid 13:1. I then start driving it and it drives great! besides the down low bucking i get which is really bad in 1st gear it drives great and sounds amazing. i can cruise at 14.5 all day long. my problem is only when i am coming to a stop. say traffic is slowing down and comes to a stop. i bump it in neutral and coast to a stop. the rpms will sit at 1100 till i stop completely.. then all of a sudden Massive surges... 11.... to 17... 12... to 16......11..... 17 stall. This does not happen everytime however. its completely random. its worse in traffic stop and go stall, turn car on, go stop stall, turn car on. now if i try to hold the gas down a lil and let it sit at 1000 when it comes to a stop the second i let off the gas... stall.

i can't even rev the car or else it will stall.

this problem has me flippin out and like i have told many of the cavalier owners who have talked to me on aim, i really regret sticking all this money into this car. my goal was to make a fast daily driver cav (no i don't care about gas consumption) and to be different from every other god damn turbo honda in my town. and i can't even do that. everyone i come accross thinks the car is a joke cuz it can't even idle on baby 370cc injectors. ARGH ok end rant thanks!


http://www.cardomain.com/id/StylezTA
Re: Tuning Issues, help a poor guy out!
Wednesday, November 30, 2005 6:44 PM
My car was doing the same thing with the ford brown tops.I got fed up and put my stock injectors back in.I just got a cartech fmu,so im gonna see if i can get a decent air fuel ratio with these injectors.I have a wideband so i can see how much boost these injectors can take.


Peter
'06 Cobalt ss/sc W/G85 Package
Gm Stage II W/2.79" Pulley
K&N Drop In Filter
Custom Magnaflow Dual Exhaust


Re: Tuning Issues, help a poor guy out!
Wednesday, November 30, 2005 7:27 PM
this sucks thats all I know. I feel the same way. I have well over 10k into this car and it is nothing but a bunch of bullcrap. engine fire, three tranies, two turbos, numerrous oil leaks still, cracked manifold studs in head had to pull it, broken actuator will not boost past 7psi no matter what I do, car idling like crap and dying, fouled plugs, burning turbo oil smell all the time in the car, countless downpipe gasket replacements, oil pan gasket leaks, warped turbo manifold had to make another stainless one with stress cuts, leaking fuel pressure regulator. I am sure I can think of more I will get back to you.


01 Z24 Turbo MMMM YUMMY
Re: Tuning Issues, help a poor guy out!
Wednesday, November 30, 2005 7:43 PM
lol holy hell man. all those problems u named i think i had or have! ghahahaha i think i feel so bad for both of us.

1) engine fire - everytime i turn my car on cold. runs to rich, misfire code
2) three tranies - on my third, and 3rd clutch (now have a lsd and spec stage 3)
3) two turbos - gone through 2 myself
4) numerrous oil leaks - i think i got one 2, but its really really minor as of now. something is leaking lol
5) cracked manifold studs - mine just threaded out with the nuts lol.
6) broken actuator - well i am externally gated, however, i go through wastegate gaskets like running water, ever try to replace one of them with the exploited manifold? the bottom bolt is HELL!
7) car idling like crap and dying - obviously me too
8) fouled plugs - in 700 miles gone through 4 sets so far.
9) burning turbo oil smell all the time in the car - me too mostly after i get done beating it.
10) countless downpipe gasket replacements - yea i don't have one of them, metal to metal on turbo.
11) oil pan gasket leaks - I HAD THAT PROBLEM TO! but i just super tightened the bolts and i think it stopped? lol
12) warped turbo manifold had to make another stainless one with stress cuts - Ur all alone on that one lol
13) leaking fuel pressure regulator - If u saw how my regulator fits on my fuel rail u would laugh. it literally stays on because it leans up against the timing chain cover so tightly. i can't believe it hasn't leaked yet... knock on wood


yea man, been there done that. all my buddies think the car is a joke especially since its ugly as hell since i have no money to paint it. and i finally got full throttled fixxed and i can't seem to fix this problem. the only thing i can think of was sell the car or buy better management... then i thought the car is worth 500 bucks cuz its a cavalier so i mind as well buy better management. i am basically stuck with it.

I am at least happy though i found someone who knows what i am talking about.



http://www.cardomain.com/id/StylezTA
Re: Tuning Issues, help a poor guy out!
Thursday, December 01, 2005 2:47 AM
wow...... ghetto

my car never had a problem idling....

I knock on wood that it doesnt once I get it back together.....




SPD RCR Z - '02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT - '04 GTO 305whp
RACER X - '78 Opel Kadett W41 Swap

Re: Tuning Issues, help a poor guy out!
Thursday, December 01, 2005 2:58 AM
see thats the thing though. my set up is no where near ghetto. i have so much god damn money into my car its insane. its also a lil easier for u to speed cuz u can use the gm supercharger tune as a base and go from there. i consider my tuning quite ghettp but it seems like it works for everyone except me... well and dragracemyz24


http://www.cardomain.com/id/StylezTA
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