"Cant" run E85 on stock PCM? OK.. why cant we run this? - Page 5 - Tuning Forum

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Re:
Wednesday, April 17, 2013 12:37 PM
There is no need to scale the MAF unless you have out of whack AFRs... From most other tuners i see it is a last resort and MOST of the time there is no need to mess with it. They just mess with injector constant or use an aftermarket fuel pressure regulator... they use wideband to watch their afr's and it works for their reality. They dont touch stoich tables as i have said there is no reason to complicate things more than it needs to be. Thats like trying to change afr to lambda... or lambda to volts in the tune... its pointless and complicates things more than they need to be.

Re:
Wednesday, April 17, 2013 2:32 PM
I guess all the money and time I spent on schooling and equipment to do this for a living was a waste..... Like "others" here, you know every goddamn thing in the world... What you FAIL to realize is not all PCMs have a "injector constant". Most PCMs that are worth a $h!t have better scaling for injector flow rate, dead time, voltage offsets, ETC..... They also have a Commanded Stoich table for a reason, because YES, you can and will be raping a MAF. If "most other tuners" (which in fact, there are alot of self-proclaimed “tuners” that have NO CLUE what they are really doing) did not change the Commanded Stoich (14.68XXXX for gas/e10) to (.98XXX e85 AKA corn) due to the tables not reflecting "lambda" (which the Jbody PCM does not reference its fuel by, either does the Cobalt platform (excluding LNF) ) , the only way to add more fuel is to rape the MAF due to not having an "injector constant".... People were raping the MAF tables with the Bosch PCM in the LNF cars before the fuel tables became available. The tables are there for a reason. If they were not there, and with a Commanded Stoich AFR of 14.68XXX, there would simply be just a "1" referencing lambda...... In a perfect world, this would be the case, but our PCMs are junk compared to most of the stuff myself and other reputable tuners tune.... As I have stated before, can you run e85 in a Jbody??? YES! Is it ideal and are all the proper tables to do it right and have the proper failsafes?? HELL NO!





P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq

Re:
Wednesday, April 17, 2013 2:38 PM
QWK LN2 (P&P Tuning) wrote:

I guess all the money and time I spent on schooling and equipment to do this for a living was a waste..... Like "others" here, you know every goddamn thing in the world... What you FAIL to realize is not all PCMs have a "injector constant". Most PCMs that are worth a $h!t have better scaling for injector flow rate, dead time, voltage offsets, ETC..... They also have a Commanded Stoich table for a reason, because YES, you can and will be raping a MAF. If "most other tuners" (which in fact, there are alot of self-proclaimed “tuners” that have NO CLUE what they are really doing) did not change the Commanded Stoich (14.68XXXX for gas/e10) to (.98XXX e85 AKA corn) due to the tables not reflecting "lambda" (which the Jbody PCM does not reference its fuel by, either does the Cobalt platform (excluding LNF) ) , the only way to add more fuel is to rape the MAF due to not having an "injector constant".... People were raping the MAF tables with the Bosch PCM in the LNF cars before the fuel tables became available. The tables are there for a reason. If they were not there, and with a Commanded Stoich AFR of 14.68XXX, there would simply be just a "1" referencing lambda...... In a perfect world, this would be the case, but our PCMs are junk compared to most of the stuff myself and other reputable tuners tune.... As I have stated before, can you run e85 in a Jbody??? YES! Is it ideal and are all the proper tables to do it right and have the proper failsafes?? HELL NO!


AMEN^ There is a reason I have waited 2.5 years for another tune by him, and him alone. For someone to provide a way to tune a car that cannot see boost but yet is reliable enough to be able to boost safely and perform well.... you bet ill wait!



Re:
Wednesday, April 17, 2013 3:46 PM
screw E85, run methanol.





Re:
Wednesday, April 17, 2013 3:58 PM
DaFlyinSkwirl (Pj) wrote:

screw E85, run methanol.
But all the cool kids are doing it.........





P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq

Re:
Wednesday, April 17, 2013 4:40 PM
QWK LN2 (P&P Tuning) wrote:

DaFlyinSkwirl (Pj) wrote:

screw E85, run methanol.
But all the cool kids are doing it.........


but methanol will actually add power, not "add" power.

plus, it smells good =D





Re:
Wednesday, April 17, 2013 4:47 PM
BuiltNBoosted wrote:



AMEN^ There is a reason I have waited 2.5 years for another tune by him, and him alone. For someone to provide a way to tune a car that cannot see boost but yet is reliable enough to be able to boost safely and perform well.... you bet ill wait!


Waiting also... and I don't even know the man.






Re:
Wednesday, April 17, 2013 6:52 PM
If it's so goddamned easy and common sense for everyone go fkn run it and report your results. Stop trying to convince everyone that it's the wave of the future and just go do it. Results speak louder than any lecturing/preaching words.

FYI, if anyone preaching E85 here actually saw how POORLY a boosted jbody responds to drastic temperature or elevation changes on the fuel that it was intended for, you'd realize how handicapped the PCM is for major changes like this. As QWK said, can it be done, yes, is it ideal/perfectly safe, HELL NO



Re:
Wednesday, April 17, 2013 7:27 PM
QWK LN2 (P&P Tuning) wrote:

Whalesac wrote:

QWK LN2 (P&P Tuning) wrote:

Leafy (Club Jeffie FEA man) wrote:

I still don't know how it can tell its at 14.7 or 9.8, do we use some sort of o2 sensor that I've never heard of? All narrow bands that I've ever heard of can only tell you if the car is running at, not what the actual afr is. Hell, wide bands can't even do that, you need a 5 gas analyzer to do that.
All the O2 sensor does is read the voltage.... They all do the same thing. The PCM is what determines what the voltage value means.... And why are you bringing a 5 gas into this? Like I said earlier, you still have a lot to learn and I applaud you for wanting to learn...

No.

The sensor outputs a voltage. It reads lambda, which as leafy mentioned is the ratio of actual AFR to stoichiometric AFR.

I mistyped what you put in red..... I agree with this statement...


so which is it sir, you believe the sensor reads in lambda or you dont? Kind of contradictory agreeing that the sensor outputs voltage and read lambda...
Re:
Wednesday, April 17, 2013 7:29 PM
Just askin sorry... and thanks for FINALLY admitting it can be done. That is all i needed to hear and yes zyaa will let you all know. I'm sure... but judging by the responses i've heard here, you still wont believe it.
Re:
Wednesday, April 17, 2013 7:35 PM
Oh and i understand that your tables are a hack job... and dont have the proper tables to support all aspects of control... however your all sitting here telling me he tunes boosted cars without proper tables for a 2 bar... yet thats the right way to do it?... hmmm so who does a hack job again? Alot more can go wrong fast in a boosted application... ethanol is ALOT more forgiving... people have also tuned for what 750cc injectors or even 1k... yet thats not hack either... hmmm ok

Re:
Wednesday, April 17, 2013 7:36 PM
"can be done" is a far cry from what 99% of the population will accept. We are talking race car status, on 65 +/-2* days, at a fixed elevation with minimal fluctuation in baro. We are not talking a car that you can drive from everglades to rockies without issue.;



Re:
Wednesday, April 17, 2013 7:39 PM
like has been said here FINALLY... it will work. end of story... there is no need to control every aspect when e85 supports so much more lean/rich and timing than regular gas every could. Thats the deal here... all it is, is adding more fuel. Plain and simple... thats it. Nothing more needs done. If people can run boost without 2bar and people run bigger injectors period... they can run ethanol.
Re:
Wednesday, April 17, 2013 7:41 PM
Seeing is believing...I'm convinced by results, not by speculation.





Re:
Thursday, April 18, 2013 2:56 AM
Reverant GTP wrote:

Just askin sorry... and thanks for FINALLY admitting it can be done. That is all i needed to hear and yes zyaa will let you all know. I'm sure... but judging by the responses i've heard here, you still wont believe it.


I said on the first page it can be done, it was your shady friend that fought me on things he was wrong about.



FU Tuning



Re: E85 sucks
Thursday, April 18, 2013 3:11 AM
And what is wrong about some 110 Octane and some Meth......



Re: E85 sucks
Thursday, April 18, 2013 3:42 AM
^^ Nothing at all!

I just want someone to put their money where their mouth is. Hell, pay me and I'll even "tune" it. You'll sign a waiver, and I will not be at your beck and call when either a) the weather changes and the drivability sucks, or b) the car blows up. So let's go people, E85 tunes all around!!



Re: E85 sucks
Thursday, April 18, 2013 6:29 AM
Tinkles(KGM) wrote:

And what is wrong about some 110 Octane and some Meth......


This is my plan and I will still be faster than him.



FU Tuning



Re: E85 sucks
Thursday, April 18, 2013 6:49 AM
Reverant GTP wrote:

Oh and i understand that your tables are a hack job... and dont have the proper tables to support all aspects of control... however your all sitting here telling me he tunes boosted cars without proper tables for a 2 bar... yet thats the right way to do it?... hmmm so who does a hack job again? Alot more can go wrong fast in a boosted application... ethanol is ALOT more forgiving... people have also tuned for what 750cc injectors or even 1k... yet thats not hack either... hmmm ok


It is called using what you have to work with due to Jbody owners are a bunch of cheap @sses and don’t want to spend the coin on a standalone. And no, running e85 is not “A LOT MORE FORGIVING” than running boosted applications on the Jbody PCM. If that was the case, I guess the hundreds of boosted Jbodies I have tuned are blown up… And I have tuned Jbodies with 1000cc injectors also… They all ran like poo too…. Don’t know what to say… I’m amazed anybody brings anything to me….

Let me ask you something, do you honestly think that because you are on the bandwagon of corn fuel, that you really know everything? It is obvious you have never tuned a Jbody PCM in any sort of real world scenario… Maybe listening to facts from people who know this PCM a “little” more than you may benefit you from looking like a raging douche… I hope your theories don’t apply to women also…. I will just leave this here....







P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq

Re: E85 sucks
Thursday, April 18, 2013 7:06 AM
LMAO^^^^

Come on man, ride the wave, let's cash in on the E85 craze . Let's get the waivers in order and tune whoever wants it



Re: E85 sucks
Thursday, April 18, 2013 7:11 AM


-Chris-



-Sweetness-
-Turbocharged-
Slowly but surely may some day win this race...

Re: E85 sucks
Thursday, April 18, 2013 7:21 AM
oldskool wrote:

LMAO^^^^

Come on man, ride the wave, let's cash in on the E85 craze . Let's get the waivers in order and tune whoever wants it
I already have waivers... I'll let you use mine....





P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq

Re: E85 sucks
Thursday, April 18, 2013 7:27 AM
I think we need "special" E85 waivers though



Re: E85 sucks
Thursday, April 18, 2013 7:44 AM
I think any of us that have tuned jbody's should stop tuning and refer our business to Brad since he and his crew know it all.



FU Tuning



Re: E85 sucks
Thursday, April 18, 2013 7:47 AM
Addicted to meth wrote:

I think any of us that have tuned jbody's should stop tuning and refer our business to Brad since he and his crew know it all.


What?! And give up hours and hours and hours of my time for very very very little money? Jesus how will I feed my cat...

-Chris-



-Sweetness-
-Turbocharged-
Slowly but surely may some day win this race...
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