This argument has gone on for generations. As an example, you can easily substitute Italian or Irish for Hispanic and get the same picture at the turn of the last century. Likewise, even today illegal immigration isn't limited to Hispanics; virtually all nationalities illegally immigrate to the U.S. The answer isn't to build higher fences or deeper moats; you have to address the reasons that people leave their homelands to come to the U.S. In most cases, it's economic; there simply aren't enough opportunities for these immigrants to make a better life for themselves at home. They come here to make enough money so that their children can get a better education (read any education at all) to get better jobs when they grow up. A recent survey of Mexicans in the U.S. concluded that many would return to Mexico if they could find work that would allow them to support their family with a decent standard of living.

I believe that there is more emphasis on English-speaking citizens learning the languages of our immigrant neighbors for two very distinct reasons. The first is that we live in a more enlightened time than our forefathers and some of us want our new neighbors to feel welcome in their new home. The second and probably more realistic reason is economic; these people are a large market and nobody can afford to turn away business in these competitive times. The hispanic community is large and growing. My advice to anybody would be to learn the language and make yourself a more valuable commodity in the job market. I live in Texas and all of my kids are learning Spanish for just that reason (being bilingual isn't always a requirement but it does pay off financially in many jobs here).

It's a huge mistake to believe that illegal immigrants of any nationality are a drain on the U.S. economy. They contribute through their labor on jobs that many won't even consider and spend a great deal of their wages here. As for health care, many illegals avoid using medical services for fear of being identified to Immigration authorities and deported. While I agree that our government needs to do more to solve the national health care problem, I don't believe that the answer is to deny health care to immigrants.

Lastly, on the question of language, historically the first generation of immigrants are very slow to pick up English as their primary language. Normally , the second generation is fluent in both English and their parent's mother tongue. By the third generation, these people are fully assimilated and speak only English. Growing up in my family, my parents spoke English only but my paternal grandparents regularly spoke Polish when they wanted to talk about something they didn't want the grandkids to know about. This is pretty funny, but neither my grandfather nor my grandmother were Polish (my grandfather was second generation Czech and my grandmother was from County Mayo in Ireland!) but they picked up the language from Polish immigrants working at the steel mills in Chicago.



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But since our country is so diverse... that's even more languages to accomodate to. If i moved to Finland and they had to learn English... that's one other language.

If we were to accomodate everyone that came here to the US... we'd have to learn Spanish, Chinese, Japanese, Indian, Arabic, German, French, Swedish, Dutch, Russian....... get the point??

THEY need to learn English... plain and simple... and come here LEGALLY. If they're here legally... and need healthcare, that's one thing. If they're here illegally... they don't deserve it. If you break the law... why should congress go out of their way to accomodate you? If you rob a bank is the law going to come up and say "here let me help you out"? If a LEGAL immigrant needs healthcare that's one thing. But an ILLEGAL immigrant? When there's millions of US Citizens who don't have it or can't afford it??

Like I said, if you come here LEGALLY and want help to get on your feet... fine. I have no problem with that. But just because you came here from somewhere else doesn't mean you have the right to break our laws and be rewarded for it by getting free help.

[quote=¤§Fallen Angel§¤]But since our country is so diverse... that's even more languages to accomodate to. If i moved to Finland and they had to learn English... that's one other language.

If we were to accomodate everyone that came here to the US... we'd have to learn Spanish, Chinese, Japanese, Indian, Arabic, German, French, Swedish, Dutch, Russian....... get the point??

THEY need to learn English... plain and simple... and come here LEGALLY. If they're here legally... and need healthcare, that's one thing. If they're here illegally... they don't deserve it. If you break the law... why should congress go out of their way to accomodate you? If you rob a bank is the law going to come up and say "here let me help you out"? If a LEGAL immigrant needs healthcare that's one thing. But an ILLEGAL immigrant? When there's millions of US Citizens who don't have it or can't afford it??

Like I said, if you come here LEGALLY and want help to get on your feet... fine. I have no problem with that. But just because you came here from somewhere else doesn't mean you have the right to break our laws and be rewarded for it by getting free help.

Nobody has to come to this country and learn english! They can choose to learn English but don't have to. The majority of immmigrants that come here do decide to learn English and yes it is beneficial but they don't have to like you said.

An immigrant comes to this country legally and brings his girfriend who eventually becomes his wife and they have a kid and the husband/father joins the military here and gets killed in combat....should the government grant citizen ship to his family or deport them because they came here illegaly?

It's happening and I think it's a great idea to grant citizenship to family members who spouses have seved and died in the line of duty.

Anyways, I went to school, my wife is now in school, I have a beautiful townhome, my kids are healthy(thanks to health insurance) and I have evrything I need.....I dont need to go around arguing about immigrants anymore! Its pointless to me because they dont effect me one bit!

I say kill all the illegals, I don't care where they're from, it'll save money deporting the same people over and over again


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Grimor wrote:I say kill all the illegals, I don't care where they're from, it'll save money deporting the same people over and over again

That is one of the most ignorant things that I have ever read on this site...

This is just yet another thread born out of some people's lack of knowledge about history, economics and facts on the JBO.

aj87hatch and Alexander Andrade, fantastic posts!

Here's another bit of history and truth not covered here yet, most immigrants that move here and move into a community of others like them don't learn english right away. But the children are always guaranteed to know english. This is nothing new. Get over it. Grandpa Europe probably did the same thing.






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kick them the @!#$ out im sick of supporting every foreign cause, and if they have to be here have thier ass pay taxes like everyone else



1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85

Fallen: you have no idea how hard it is to get a working visa in the USA, do you? Much less a green card....

I'll put it this way:
I, as a Canadian citizen with no criminal record, having accepted a guarenteed job with Compaq, a fortune 500 company, could not get a work visa so I could make a living in Houston. I went through all the rigamaroll, I paid all my fees, I was investigated by the RCMP and FBI and got all my police clearances (and a surprisingly thorough rectal exam), and I was still denied a working visa. I applied for the green card lottery, and still didn't get anywhere.

I was not looking to live in the US forever, and I was also going to have to pay income taxes in the USA, AND Canada as well... because I was supposed to spend over 6 months in the US and maintain a residence there, I needed to get my work visa... The INS rejected my application on the basis that my Job was not significantly individual enough for my nationality that an american couldn't do my job as effectively. As a foreign national, I'd be subject to higher taxes, and I wouldn't be eligible for any social security benefits.

It took a year of wasted time to get that response.

Now, put yourself in the shoes of a mexican that is willing to work hard, but can't get into the US. Try and tell a screaming and starving kid that you can't work in a place where there is a lot of money because of laws. Good luck on that.

I'm not saying you shoul allow illegals in left and right, I'm saying maybe it'd be a good idea to relax immigration restrictions a bit so the illegals can enter legally.



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

this is just my three cents.. they should come here legally. i live in oregon and 70% of the prison system is illegal imigrants from mexico. that is f-ed up if you ask me, 2nd they can get a license in oregon, WITHOUT a green card or a work visa which again, is f-ed up. why give someone a license, if there here illgally,. and with the illigall thing i think the government treats them like a criminal that would be in prison in america, give them free heath care, give them a job, and an education. give some three square meals aday and cater to them no matter pretty much anything they want, which is what they do in the prison system

if your legal, can speak english, and are a productive member of society then you can stay


if you dont fit the above criteria....then you can gtfo


this goes for people who arent illegal immigrants as well... id put all the useless pieces of crap who stand on the corner with a street sign in the same ship as the illegal immigrants and send em off to a distant island...much like they did in the old days with australia



now before someone goes protecting the homeles who stand on street corners

1 - if somoene like alexandre andradadddaaaddaa or whatever's father can come here and do as successful as he did then they can throw away there cardboard signs and get a fukking job

2 - alot of them arent even homeless....hell they arent even poor....there just pieces of @!#$ with no self dignity and respect and beg for all there money cause they can make more mooching off retarded liberals than they can if they got a job

3 - your homeless? great for you....STOP SPENDING ALL YOUR MONEY ON CRACK AND ALCOHOL

4 - your homeless? go to mexico.....they send there trash here so why shouldnt we give them ours

The amount if ignorance in this thread is astounding. I can't even read all the posts thourougly because it's giving me a headache. God, were most of you guys born in the South or something? I am not even going to address a specific post or theme, there's just so many.

Thank you GAM, Augustin, Stephanie, and anyone else I might have missed for being so level headed and mature.

You think people could be more understanding since we are in the 21st century, but I am proven wrong.



Wait, I will address a specific post:

Other Matt wrote:now before someone goes protecting the homeles who stand on street corners

1 - if somoene like alexandre andradadddaaaddaa or whatever's father can come here and do as successful as he did then they can throw away there cardboard signs and get a fukking job

2 - alot of them arent even homeless....hell they arent even poor....there just pieces of @!#$ with no self dignity and respect and beg for all there money cause they can make more mooching off retarded liberals than they can if they got a job

3 - your homeless? great for you....STOP SPENDING ALL YOUR MONEY ON CRACK AND ALCOHOL

4 - your homeless? go to mexico.....they send there trash here so why shouldnt we give them ours

Where the @!#$ did that come from? Not only that, nice work on the broad sweeping generalizations.


______________________________________________________________

ToBoGgAn wrote:we are gonna take it in the ass and like it, cause thats what america does.

Slo2pt2 (Projekt Unknown?) wrote:One my SON is ADHD N.O.S and Autistic Spectrum Disorder. I will nto medicate him he will battle throught this himself and learn to control it.

GAM: Any reason why you failed--I'm curious, but i will agree with you. Just for a working visa for the summer, Miska had to ACE all of her classes, and then take her transcript record to the Embasy, and only THEN did they approve her--it was a nightmare for her.I know what you mean on it.


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Glace wrote:Where the @!#$ did that come from?

if you read my whole post you would know how it got into the homeless topic

Alexander Andrade wrote:

Blue Cav Customs wrote:Alexander, it is you who appear to be a dumb ass.

At what point did I say that I had failed in life and had a bad job?

I have a great job as a graphic designer and a growing side business selling custom carbon fiber parts. I also own an online wargame accessory company.

I probably COULD afford health insurance - I just think its bull@!#$ that I have to pay for it and ILLEGAL CRIMINALS get theirs free.

You should be proud of your father - he did things the way he was SUPPOSED to. He learned English and then proceeded to provide a better life for you and your family than he would have had in South America (I am certainly nor ignorant - I'll bet my geography is much better than yours any day).

I am not talking about people like your father - I am talking about illegals. I am talking about people who shouldn't be here, who refuse to accustom themselves to MY country, and who are given EVERYTHING while I do without.

And if it wasn't for us "lazy Americans" who gabe your father that opportunity, your ass would be sitting in the middle of a turf war between some cartel or another in Colombia or forced to harvest coca plants at gunpoint.

How dare you insult Americans?

How dare YOU tell me not to work on my car and educate myself? You have no idea who I am or what my education is.

Next time, try to think about what you want to say before getting into a conversation and making a fool of yourself.

NOW I know why you people call this the WAR FORUM. Hell yeah - I love a good fight and there's no mods to protect the weak!

Look man, heres the deal......are htese legal/illegal immigrants really affecting your way of life? Are they really stopping you and your wife from getting the things you need in life to produce, succeed and to live a happy life?

Am I better than you, are you better than me? I was born here, Boston, Ma in 1974. Throughout my whole life there has always been a problem with immigration. Illegals comming to the US taking jobs, populating many areas that once use to be a quiet, peacefull neighborhood.

My parents are great parents but nothing was ever given to me, now I wasn't the best student, an overachiever and my goals were vague all the way through high school. I joined the Marines in '93 and did something for myself. I attended college while in the Corp and when the service was over, I continued college to get my degree.

I know work for Pepco (you know who we are because you live in the area). I am a Distribution Engineer. I make a great living and I am able to support my wife and two kids comfortably. My wife is in Nursing school (shes Salvadorian) and will have a great career come 2 years.

Why is this happening to me, I am no better than you, I never make myself out to be better than anyone because i am not! So why aren't I angry like you? Why am I not complaining like you. What path have I chosed thats different than yours. We both had the same opportunities in life to do something productive. I am not saying in no way that you are not productive because from what you said about your career you can't just jump into something like what you do without certain skill. I know how it is to be a graphic designer. You probably do more designing than I do on a different level but I design jobs on Microstaion V8 every day.

So am I better than you, are you better than me? Why am I living my life comfartably without complaints and anger towards Illegal immigrants? Why are you so upset about it? If your doing what you love and you set out to be what you are then why complain?

Health insurance....I dont know anything about that industry...lol. But if your job does not offer health insurance then why not look for something that does? Hell, you can come here and design all you want and have full benefits if you want to (let me know because we have 2 openings....serious).

Now, someone mentioned that if they were to move to Finland then they would have to learn their language and that the people there would not lean English just for them. Well, do you know of any other country that is so diverse than the US? There is not one. Yeah other countries such as England may have a large population of India people but I dont think you can find a country other than the US that has a almost every single race and religion.

Sorry that your so upset about all this but you can change things in your life to suit your needs!

Bravo Alex... lol Couldn't have said it any better. I've never really ventured into this area of JBO but I saw the title and had to read this... Some of the comments on here really make me want to puke. Just for the record I am "hispanic"... Puerto Rican to be more specific, which by the way PR's are US citizens, but I was born in New York City none the less anyway so I consider myself "American".
From what I've seen so far, a lot of the complaints seem to be about feeling that hispanics/latinos (which are different by the way at least in the "spanish" community) are taking "American" jobs , your tax money is paying for these illegal aliens, etc, etc. Honestly, I'm not at all for people jumping the border illegally. I feel that in life there are rules no matter where you go. I don't care who you are... if you came into my house and started going into my fridge, and turning on my PS2 and using my toilet paper without asking first, you're damn right I'm going to throw you the hell out. There are rules and guidelines that OUR country... (Yeah that's right. OUR country) in order to become a US citizen. If you can't follow it then you need to turn around and go back where you came from. So I agree 100% on the fact that illegal aliens should not be allowed into the US. If they want in then they need to get on line just like the rest of them.
As for taking jobs... I really don't think that the "ILLEGAL" immigrants are taking as many "good" jobs as you think. A lot of the "GOOD" jobs require you to be a "CITIZEN" when you apply in the first place. I work at a very prestigious cancer center in New York City 2 days a week managing 3 departments here on the weekend all by myself making decent money enough to buy a 6 bedroom house and a nice 2003 Sunfire on just a 2 day a week job, which is where I'm at as I type this. Now that's what a good job is like. I don't think I've ever come across one single illegal immigrant at this place...EVER. Just like Alex said... you want a good job, then you have to work for it. Everyone in the U.S. has a chance to succeed. If you failed in life and are now stuck with only minimum wage crap jobs then you probably fugged up somewhere along the way didn't you? MAybe you didn't do your homework when you were in highschool or something. Maybe you spent all your time choking your noodle to internet porn and smoking too much pot while the rest of your buddies were off going to college and on the right track. Don't blame immigrants. Blame yourself. Now as for the bottom of the well jobs where your apllication looked like it was written up with a crayon and only has like 3 questions on it ("Name, [IMG]Can you drive?[/IMG], [IMG]Can you scrub toilets?[/IMG]")... Yeah you might run into an illegal immigrant now and then getting the job over you. Why is that? Because people in this world are cheapskates. No one wants to pay a some dumb ass to scrub his toilets minimum wage when he can throw some change at some dude who will scrub the whole damn place spotless for almost nothing, just so he can have a job that's off the books because REAL JOBS DON'T HIRE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. I mean honeslty... would you? I'd bet money on it that if you owned some crap hole of a store on a corner and had a choice between paying someone $5 to $6 an hour, who can even get you for unemployment if you decide to lay that someone off after a few months, when you can get some borderhopper to do twice as much work for less than half of what you would have paid the other guy... Yeeeeah you know you would do the same thing. Sorry to hurt some of your feelings but it's the truth. Very few good jobs out there will hire someone who isn't a citizen and can't legally work in the US. If you screwed up in life maybe your mom or dad should have wooped your ass for all those times you brought home a "D" on your report card.
As for speaking English, just like others above said... there is no real official language in the US. I myself only know how to speak english. Doesn't mean everyone else has too.
Now onto the whole taxes subject. I agree that our taxes should not go to all these border jumping illegals. Why should my hard earned money go to some bastard who is probably going the get his ass thrown back over the border at some point anyway, or even worse yet... bring more of his illegal family and friends over to my side of the border so that even MORE of MY money can take care of them and start a big 'ol illegal chain of misfortune. Trust me... I'm not any happier about this than any of you. I pay taxes just like the rest of you. Why should it be thrown to the dogs when people who really need it could have it... LIKE ME! It's my damn money. Not theirs. If my taxes go to making better schools for our children, supporting our troops, and nice jails with 3'x3' jail cells with spiked walls, then at least I'd know my money was being put to good use, but dammut I'd give a winning lotto ticket to a homeless guy on a New York City street before I give it to some jerk off who jumps the border thinking he can get a free ride. But I've got an even BIGGER picture for all of you who were complaining about our tax money going to all these "hispanics" blah blah blah. I don't know where you are all from. I'm sure you all come from all parts of the US, Canada, world, small town, big town, whatever. There is such a nasty evil little thing called WELFARE!!!!!!!! New York City, born and raised, until I finally moved out of the big city to a small town in Pennsylvania to see what life was like outside of the cement fortress... and guess what... I saw something I had never really seen before in my entire life or at least never really noticed because they were hidden by all the rich ones.... POOR WHITE PEOPLE. Yep, that's right! I felt like I was in the twilight zones. It was like watching one of those feed the children shows with all the naked blonde kids eating squirrels cooked over their top of the line garbage can fire. When I saw stuff like that on TV back when I was younger in NYC I never really payed attention to it. I mean that couldn't be real right? Damn right it is... and guess what... I'm about to burst your bubble once again folks. Those same poor "CAUCASIANS" are sucking up just as much of your tax money as those border jumpers. Hmmm... maybe we should go make another thread about all those nasty little evil tax money leaching caucasian trash and how the government is taking our hard earned money so that these leaches can sit in their homes getting all their utilities paid, more money in food stamps than even I would spend on my own groceries, hell they can even get sums of money to help them get cars. I know a very good example of a causcasian woman who is doing this very thing as we speak. This woman has 2 kids, lives in a 3 bedroom apartment with 2 floors, has a nice car which WELFARE ASSITANCE helped pay for, cable with all channels, DSL internet, a nice PC, free education, and a fridge that never gets empty, and guess what... she doesn't work. She was like this when I met her 3 years ago, and still is. Who's money is paying for her to have such a life of luxery? Take a good guess... That's right junior! YOU!!!! Somebody get this guy a big gold star right away! Ya know, the funny thing is that I've got a big hunch that a lot of you complaining about not being able to jobs because the lowly illegal immigrant won't let you are on welfare, too, so give me a god damn break and cut the . One thing I learned is that this country is alot bigger than just the few big cities that the TV and movies like to focus on. It's sprinkled with all these little no name towns that fill up what would be empty space on our US map if they didn't exist. And a good 90% of those no name towns are infested with all these poor welfare caucasians like roaches in a Brooklyn apartment building. But am I killing myself over it? No. It's life. Sometimes you get laid. Sometimes you get f**ked. You live, you get over it. You want more out of life then go get it. You can have almost anything if you work hard enough for it. Don't let your world be so small. Start looking outside of the roach motel you live in and start thinking about how you can get a better job, or jobs, sometimes, so that you can have the life you want. You only get what you work for. I don't give any credit to those on the bottom who are doing nothing but whine and bitch about how the system is against them. That goes fer anyone, whether you're white, black, green, purple, or whatever the hell else you might be. My props goes out to those who are doing what they can to make the best of what they've got, and to those who are striving to better themselves and higher achievement.

I have no problem with hispanics... just illegal immigrants

Very good post Evil Serpent.

everyone should get out of the states and let the Native Americans have their land back....


such a cool post to read...just sad though when someone uses racial slurs..."spic" wtf no need for that crap, or any racial slurs.

what is a racial slur for "americans"..hahahah never thought of that till now.

I <3 U all







"All my life I have been trying to figure out who is behind this face of mine"

Umm...Gringo, Gaijin, Hoser, American capitolist pigdog....

That's all i know for now...


Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

kick them all out if they are illegal and bill THIER governement for it and not ours



1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85

i am half dominican and my girlfriend is mexican so i though i would chime in.

i agree that all of these illegal immigrants are kinda messing up our country a lil bit but its just the the war on drugs, its a fight we arent gonna win. im not saying just let everyone come over but that yall have to realize these people are gonna keep coming regardless of what we think. at some point or another in all of your family trees someone was an immigrant, or slave, unless u r native american and does anyone ever stick up for them?!?!. all of u are complaining about not getting jobs and having to learn spanish. hispanic people are gonna be the majority in the not to distant future. if u dont want to learn spanish thats fine but it would probalby be in your best interest to learn a lil bit simply because there are a lot of sapnish peopel in this country.

are these illegals having a direct negative effect on all of your lives? or is it just because of the health care and tax money that goes to them. soory to say but u gotta pay taxes anyways i dont really care where my tax money goes bu tthats just me.

this is just my opinion. its not meant to offend anyone. thanx.

Glace: You totally nullified your post when you suggested that all racism is from the South. Grow up.

I to firmly believe if you are here illegally go home.


I don't need no stinking SIG. Wait this is one.
DOH!

HEHE, i live in texas. pretty much all i have to say. I do however agree with the fact that anyone, not just mexicans, getting free money is crap. Like the old saying goes " Work harder, millions on wellfare depend on it." I think wellfare is a load of crap and should be abolished. we should take it back WAY oldschool and say "If you dont work, you dont eat."

[quote=©leve® One]HEHE, i live in texas. pretty much all i have to say. I do however agree with the fact that anyone, not just mexicans, getting free money is crap. Like the old saying goes " Work harder, millions on wellfare depend on it." I think wellfare is a load of crap and should be abolished. we should take it back WAY oldschool and say "If you dont work, you dont eat."

I agree with the welfare part to an extent. There are a lot of people in this country whether they are immigrants or citizens that fully take advantage of the welfare system. Women having kid after kid after kid just to get a bigger check on the 1st of the month. You can tell who they are because they are the ones that come out of the house with their hair all done up, make up put on nicely and dressed to impress, while their kids (all 7 of them) are walking around all ghetto looking! These are the types of people who are abusing the welfare system for their own personal gain!

Then their are the single moms who work second/third shift while settling for a not so experienced baby sitter who will take any amount of money no matter how little it is to watch their kids who do deserve the welfare system. These are the people who I dont mind helping out (taxes) because i know they are trying to better themselves!

I believe welfare does good for the people who are really trying but on the flip side it is there for people to abuse it as well.

I think their government seems to not get their head out of their @$$ to create
more jobs and increase personal income.
it all breaks down to lack of education; you go down there and you will find some of the worst drivers on the road. and no insurance!!!!
People keep having too many kinds and can't support them. that pisses me off too!!!

if other countries spend more time on education, fix their economy, create more jobs to
increase personal income, punish irresponsible parents and criminals and bring them to justice..ect..ect..ect.. bla!bla!bla!
They would not go Somewhere else to find Jobs.

we can't just point the fingers at the illegals, its their government, leaders, dictators and whatever else they have.

there's a guy that lives down the road where I live.
he is on disability, BUT!!! he drives a 20,000 F150 Ford Truck
2,000 wheels Exhaust system, Stereo System

and he don't @!#$ work!! I work my ass everyday and I drive a 1997 Chevy CAvalier..
Damn...
its okay, I like it tho..

why gets all that money? if he was down there in Nicaragua or Honduras, he won't get @!#$