If the Pentagon was really hit by a plane, where are the marks? Or the landing skid on the lawn? The pieces of airplane? Why wasn't there wake turbulance (sp?) on the expressway near the Pentagon with the plane flying low? Just a little hard to believe a plane hit it... anyways...
The moon... Its the moon! How many people have actually gone there? Its not exactly on this planet, so there are bound to be a few things that don't exactly make sense up there. The shadow theory, maybe it was the way they were landed, or the light from the camera that filmed the landing, or maybe the light from the sun was reflecting off the ship. There are tons of things that make for reasonable explanations.
Just seems a little odd that they only send small robots up now?
exodus 259 wrote:If the Pentagon was really hit by a plane, where are the marks? Or the landing skid on the lawn? The pieces of airplane? Why wasn't there wake turbulance (sp?) on the expressway near the Pentagon with the plane flying low? Just a little hard to believe a plane hit it... anyways...
1. They rebuilt it where the plane hit, it was a remodel
2. When you crash a plane, you usually don't down the landing gear...you want to keep as much speed as possible
3. Ok...you know how much a car is destroied hitting a barrier at 40 mph, think about a jet airliner flying at 200+ mph...its gonna be in lots of tiny, tiny pieces.
4. I higly doubt that you are going to be concerned if you spilled you coffee on youself when you see this huge airplane fly over you and crash into the Pentagon.
5. They have eye witness accounts...like some one said...its hard to keep a secret with 30 people much less 300 or 3000.
And as for the whole didn't land on the moon theory...its holds as much water as a dark sucker...look it up on google...almost had me when i was 8.
Adam Asmus wrote:
2. When you crash a plane, you usually don't down the landing gear...you want to keep as much speed as possible
5. They have eye witness accounts...like some one said...its hard to keep a secret with 30 people much less 300 or 3000.
I didn't say they used the landing gear. Eyewitness accounts say the plane hit the ground first, and slid into the building. Anyways that you look at it here, there would have been damage to the ground from this. If the plane did fly directly into the building from the air, it would have gone much further into the building. The lawn wasn't damaged one bit...
Actually, there are a lot of accounts of people that say they heard what sounded like a missile and that the object looked "a lot smaller then a plane", etc. There are quite a few people who say they never saw a plane.
John Doherty wrote:Adam Asmus wrote:
2. When you crash a plane, you usually don't down the landing gear...you want to keep as much speed as possible
5. They have eye witness accounts...like some one said...its hard to keep a secret with 30 people much less 300 or 3000.
I didn't say they used the landing gear. Eyewitness accounts say the plane hit the ground first, and slid into the building. Anyways that you look at it here, there would have been damage to the ground from this. If the plane did fly directly into the building from the air, it would have gone much further into the building. The lawn wasn't damaged one bit...
Actually, there are a lot of accounts of people that say they heard what sounded like a missile and that the object looked "a lot smaller then a plane", etc. There are quite a few people who say they never saw a plane.
Please point to a source that says the plane hit the ground then slid into the building? I have never heard anyone say that on TV or an any newspapers before.
You say the plane would have gone much farther into the building, had it hit it directly. Really? Are you an expert on plane crashes then?
See the Pentagon is built out of concrete walls reinforced by steel, the windows are bomb proof they weight over 1200 pounds per window.
So you see it is pretty simple why it didn't do a whole lot of damage. Now the World Trade Centers for example wernt built to survive bombs and @!#$, so that is the reason they were damaged so badly for.
As for people not seeing a plane, no @!#$ sherlock a lot of people didnt see it. Most people wernt looking in the sky for a plane to nail the Pentagon, they were going about their day and heard a large explosion. When some conspiracy nut like you comes and asks "did you see a plane" they may very well say no because they wernt looking for the damn thing, could have been turned the opposite directions the plane came in. Who knows, we do know it was a plane that it.
If you continue to think it wasn't a plane, who are all the people who died then, just made up names, and let me guess the families on TV after 9/11 were all staging the whole thing right?
Tell you what since it seems you dont like this country much, and think the govt. is all full of lies and out to get you, how about you move then? Move to the middle east where you dont have freedom of speech like you do here, here you can spit your nonsense, there, well if you say something bad about one of the leaders they will most likely just kill ya right then and there.
- 2004 Cavalier - 124k, owned since new
If non-sensical thought were the only pre-requisite for leaving the country, there'd about about 6500 people in the US... total. Retire that "love it or leave it" BS... It's old, out-moded, and base as humanly possible. There are conspiracy theorists all over the place that ignore little facts like people sometimes can't keep secrets.
Other than that, I have little if any doubt that an aircraft hit the Pentagon, but I doubt sincerely that it was supposed to hit that particular target.. it's well known to be very heavily built, so I would hazard a guess that a softer target like the capitol building was the intended target.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
people can make either side of any argument look believable. I just recently got into a good conversation with an retired special forces agent about it. I do know that alot of the observatories that have a good enough telescope to see the moons surface in deatil wont let you look at the moon. But you never know. He belives it was fake and made some very good points.
Rob S wrote:
You say the plane would have gone much farther into the building, had it hit it directly. Really? Are you an expert on plane crashes then?
See the Pentagon is built out of concrete walls reinforced by steel, the windows are bomb proof they weight over 1200 pounds per window.
So you see it is pretty simple why it didn't do a whole lot of damage. Now the World Trade Centers for example wernt built to survive bombs and @!#$, so that is the reason they were damaged so badly for.
As for people not seeing a plane, no @!#$ sherlock a lot of people didnt see it. Most people wernt looking in the sky for a plane to nail the Pentagon, they were going about their day and heard a large explosion. When some conspiracy nut like you comes and asks "did you see a plane" they may very well say no because they wernt looking for the damn thing, could have been turned the opposite directions the plane came in. Who knows, we do know it was a plane that it.
If you continue to think it wasn't a plane, who are all the people who died then, just made up names, and let me guess the families on TV after 9/11 were all staging the whole thing right?
Tell you what since it seems you dont like this country much, and think the govt. is all full of lies and out to get you, how about you move then? Move to the middle east where you dont have freedom of speech like you do here, here you can spit your nonsense, there, well if you say something bad about one of the leaders they will most likely just kill ya right then and there.
Oh please... I was waiting for somehting to evole out of this...
Are YOU an expert on plane crashes? Do you design reinforced concrete buildings? Are an air engineer? No, your not, so shut your trap. We all know the same amount of information here, difference is, people like you seem to think that ONLY your theory is right. Yes, the Pentagon may have been reinforced. That boeing had to way atleast 30tons, maybe more. A 30ton+ plane, flying at 502mph into a stationary wall, and ONLY one small section gets leveled? Come on... Where was all the fuel from the plane? The reason the WTC collapsed so fast was because of the heat from the airplane fuel burning. Yet there wasn't there that much fire damage at the pentagon. One section dropped and that was it.
You mean to tell me that you wouldn't notice a full out boeing flying about 30ft above the ground...? You are pretty damn blind then. A plane of that size should've caused wake turbulance (sp?) on the objects it passed over, but not one thing was out of place. People notice the WTC planes about 4/5 blocks before they even hit. Hell, the second plane was watched about 30 seconds before it hit. So you mean to say people wouldn't notice a boeing of that size flying so close to the ground OVER AN EXPRESSWAY NONE TO LESS?!
There were a lot of familes involved with 9/11, so its kinda hard to say who was where. Hell, maybe the Pentagon plane was shot down, or maybe it crashed elsewhere, or whatever else... I'm not the mastermind of 9/11, so how the hell am I supposed to know? Here, let me call Bin Laden and ask him so we can all find the RRAL truth, since he is probably the only one who really knows... Again, everyone else is going off of the same interviews, shows, etc.
Who said I didn't like this country? Talk about taking something the wrong way...
Roscoe: Usually they won't allow you to because the reflected light off the surface of the moon is enough to damage your retina, not because of some silly coverup. Thanks for trying to bring conversation back on topic.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
John Doherty wrote:
Oh please... I was waiting for somehting to evole out of this...
Are YOU an expert on plane crashes? Do you design reinforced concrete buildings? Are an air engineer? No, your not, so shut your trap. We all know the same amount of information here, difference is, people like you seem to think that ONLY your theory is right. Yes, the Pentagon may have been reinforced. That boeing had to way atleast 30tons, maybe more. A 30ton+ plane, flying at 502mph into a stationary wall, and ONLY one small section gets leveled? Come on... Where was all the fuel from the plane? The reason the WTC collapsed so fast was because of the heat from the airplane fuel burning. Yet there wasn't there that much fire damage at the pentagon. One section dropped and that was it.
You mean to tell me that you wouldn't notice a full out boeing flying about 30ft above the ground...? You are pretty damn blind then. A plane of that size should've caused wake turbulance (sp?) on the objects it passed over, but not one thing was out of place. People notice the WTC planes about 4/5 blocks before they even hit. Hell, the second plane was watched about 30 seconds before it hit. So you mean to say people wouldn't notice a boeing of that size flying so close to the ground OVER AN EXPRESSWAY NONE TO LESS?!
There were a lot of familes involved with 9/11, so its kinda hard to say who was where. Hell, maybe the Pentagon plane was shot down, or maybe it crashed elsewhere, or whatever else... I'm not the mastermind of 9/11, so how the hell am I supposed to know? Here, let me call Bin Laden and ask him so we can all find the RRAL truth, since he is probably the only one who really knows... Again, everyone else is going off of the same interviews, shows, etc.
Who said I didn't like this country? Talk about taking something the wrong way...
The reason people noticed the South Tower getting nailed with a jet is because people were already watching the first one, kind of hard not to see it.
As for these people who say they didnt see a plane, I didnt see it either it doesnt mean it didnt happen cause someone says they didnt see it.
Secondly Reagan airport is right by the damn Pentagon, it most likely isnt that unusual to see air planes flying low to the ground over there. I know they dont fly 10 feet off the ground, but people see a low flying aircraft coming in and think nothing of it.
Also the plane weighted 269,343lbs so actually more than you guess, but it was traveling at 400mph, not 500.
It just seems that you dont get it, this building was/is made like almost any other in the World. This building is meant to survive just about anything, even plane crashes.
- 2004 Cavalier - 124k, owned since new
I do get it... I happen to watch a lot of shows on buildings and what not...and when you have something like the Pentagon... its not exactly thought that planes will crash into it. Skyscrapers, yes. Low buildings like the Pentagon, no.
are you serious^
Thats a very important building. Im sure it was built with the thought that something may be diven or flown into it at some point in time.
The pentagon was built in the 40's with the understanding that the War Dept. itselt may at somepoint come under attack, so, literally everthing used in the normal construction of a building at the time was doubled or more.
For instance, the normal straight re-bar used in pouring concrete pillars was actually formed in a round mesh, with steel interlacings. The Walls were over 18" of solid re-inforced concrete, IIRC, the aircraft managed to get through the first ring, and hit (or marginally penetrated) the second ring where it stopped. While I may have doubts about this part, the debris that was left behind was clearly from aviation grade aluminum and magnesium.
The floors were interconnected as large re-inforced slabs, and there were expansion joints and baffeling that in-advertently stopped the shock of the plane striking the building face from travelling around to the other points.
The windows, fire-proofing, and fire safety systems were upgraded recently, which halted the fuel from igniting, and what fire there was from spreading
If that were a conventional missile, you'd probably need to have someone on the ground pointing it in, and, I seriously doubt that there would be any kind of easily launched missile that would do that kind of damage without command authority (ie. the president or some other political official), and that would mean OpSec for that would be blown to shyte.
As an aside, the Pentagon has double the number of bathrooms it really needs, as it was built in the segregation era.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
Altho this is so off topic, I agree with a comment I read elsewhere... most people think it sounded like a missle, cause i am pretty sure a plane flying that fast/close to them would sound like a missle from the movies. Have they actually been that close to a missle flying and hitting someting other places?
What happened to the space ship that launched when they went to the moon? did they just poof disappear never to come back, and it was actually different astronauts on there? SO that Neil Armstrong could hide out and get credit for it? That is beyond pathetic to say, ya its intriguing to watch the arguments people put together, but not evidence to say the least.
The pentagon is made of materials able to withstand a bomb or heavy blow. Thats just how it is. There are plenty of safety precautions taken when building it.
The comment about the passengers... did the military just make them all load to some fake plane and kidnap them all? Saying they all died. How about the people who were on the phones?
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you guys are totally blowing my mind.
of COURSE we landed on the moon. if today, you can buy a in-car gps system for 2 grand that can give you road directions accurate to the meter for thousands and thousands of miles of roads all over the world, then it's pretty plausible that for hundreds of millions of dollars in the 1960s, you could fly a projectile to the moon to a location that has to be accurate to a mile or so.
and of COURSE a plane crashed into the pentagon. why would someone make something like that up? firstoff, a plane going 400+ mph would not be that easy to see. for the average freeway driver, it would be a quick flash of a shadow and a loud roar. and the screaming, missile-like sound? as a pilot and a guy who spends much of his time around airports, the sound of turbine engines added to the sound of a huge object moving at 400+ speeds through air.... id call that a missile.
rob wrote:you guys are totally blowing my mind.
of COURSE we landed on the moon. if today, you can buy a in-car gps system for 2 grand that can give you road directions accurate to the meter for thousands and thousands of miles of roads all over the world, then it's pretty plausible that for hundreds of millions of dollars in the 1960s, you could fly a projectile to the moon to a location that has to be accurate to a mile or so.
.
First off it isnt that easy as flying a projectile to the moon. Secondly the proof NASA has doesnt add up one bit.
I know today we could do it, and we have done it before, we didnt do it in July of 1969 though.
- 2004 Cavalier - 124k, owned since new
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:There are 6 flags on the moon (IIRC.. apollo 11-12, 14-17) because they landed in 6 different places.
http://moon.google.com/ make sure you zoom all the way in too
I used to have the link to the whole pentagon thing, I'll have to find it again. But they were basically saying t he size of the whole, no real marks, an no debris from a 757 (i think it was) was found.
Rob S wrote:rob wrote:you guys are totally blowing my mind.
of COURSE we landed on the moon. if today, you can buy a in-car gps system for 2 grand that can give you road directions accurate to the meter for thousands and thousands of miles of roads all over the world, then it's pretty plausible that for hundreds of millions of dollars in the 1960s, you could fly a projectile to the moon to a location that has to be accurate to a mile or so.
.
First off it isnt that easy as flying a projectile to the moon. Secondly the proof NASA has doesnt add up one bit.
I know today we could do it, and we have done it before, we didnt do it in July of 1969 though.
And you know we didnt fly there in 69 for a fact how?
i would think that if we can get in space, orbit, then come back that we could get to the moon... but then again the current shuttle isnt made for the moon. We dont have a moon lander. All we do now is orbit and link up with the space station but even then we cant seem to get into space safely anymore. This shuttle had something fall off aswell. Its discusting that 2 billion and 2 1/2 years go by and @!#$ still comes off the ship. Makes no sence what so ever. I hope we went to the moon... and if we really did why didnt we go back and put the space station on it.
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98' Pontiac Sunfire SE
The landing may be in question but the Apollo 8 mission definately went to the moon and obited and photographed it. If you are ambitious, get a book published by NASA called "The Atlas and Gazateer of the Moon". It includes the photos of the "dark side" taken by Apollo 8. No land based telescope could take those photos, in fact, nothing that is on Earth or anywhere in between Earth and the Moon could take those photos. You have to be on the other side in order to photograph the other side. Thye book was published in the very early 70s, then recalled. I had a copy but I loaned it to a famous sceptic and never got it back. I found my copy in a rural libray that had never sent theirs back during the recall. There will be more copies out there, you just have to find them. Hardcovered, tabloid sized, green fabric bound.
Why doesn't someone just point a powerfull telescope at the moon and take pictures of the artifacts left by the missions. It should be easy. Of course everyone on the sceptic side would assume the photos are fake.
PAX
This is one of those theories I wish would die. If anyone wishes to see the truth look at far top left section of the Moon's Sea Of Tranquility with a powerful enough 'scope and you can see the acutual landing sight.
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What is pissing me off about this is that people died trying to get to the moon! It was there dream and they worked hard and died for it, DIED heros!!! And you want to talk about it all being a lie, thats bull@!#$ guys and gals. This is why America goes to @!#$, people want to toss the real heros aside for sports stars and song artist instead of firefightes, police men and women, people in the military that won YOUR freedom. Getting to the moon was a big thing back in those days folks, belive it or not our whole country is not based on lies.
Phlatcav wrote:What is pissing me off about this is that people died trying to get to the moon! It was there dream and they worked hard and died for it, DIED heros!!! And you want to talk about it all being a lie, thats bull@!#$ guys and gals. This is why America goes to @!#$, people want to toss the real heros aside for sports stars and song artist instead of firefightes, police men and women, people in the military that won YOUR freedom. Getting to the moon was a big thing back in those days folks, belive it or not our whole country is not based on lies.
Fully agreed.
I really don't get into these subjects but sometimes you gotta intervene. Our country is not perfect by any means but sometimes people push it too far. Some people are just conspiracy freaks and can't believe one thing and always think something is going on behind the scenes to trick us. The government isn't fully corrupt. People seriously need to learn to accept some things sometimes.
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And I think another reason that America is going to @!#$ is because some people refuse to stop using "America" and "Freedom" in the same sentence like it's the truth! You would like to think that you're free, but you're not. Go pick a law book. Pick up a newspaper or two sometime sand see just how free you are. Hell, some American idiots voted to relinquish certain "Freedoms and Rights" given to us by our forefathers in the name of a false sense of security. America is no more safe than it was before 9/11. I think Keeper or GAM made a really great coment on that in another thread.
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