This isn't the real America by: Jimmy Carter - Politics and War Forum

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This isn't the real America by: Jimmy Carter
Tuesday, November 15, 2005 8:24 AM on j-body.org
JIMMY CARTER was the 39th president of the United States. His newest book is "Our Endangered Values: America's Moral Crisis," published this month by Simon & Schuster.

"This isn't the real America"
By Jimmy Carter, 11.14.2005


IN RECENT YEARS, I have become increasingly concerned by a host of radical government policies that now threaten many basic principles espoused by all previous administrations, Democratic and Republican.

These include the rudimentary American commitment to peace, economic and social justice, civil liberties, our environment and human rights.

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Also endangered are our historic commitments to providing citizens with truthful information, treating dissenting voices and beliefs with respect, state and local autonomy and fiscal responsibility.

At the same time, our political leaders have declared independence from the restraints of international organizations and have disavowed long-standing global agreements — including agreements on nuclear arms, control of biological weapons and the international system of justice.

Instead of our tradition of espousing peace as a national priority unless our security is directly threatened, we have proclaimed a policy of "preemptive war," an unabridged right to attack other nations unilaterally to change an unsavory regime or for other purposes. When there are serious differences with other nations, we brand them as international pariahs and refuse to permit direct discussions to resolve disputes.

Regardless of the costs, there are determined efforts by top U.S. leaders to exert American imperial dominance throughout the world.

These revolutionary policies have been orchestrated by those who believe that our nation's tremendous power and influence should not be internationally constrained. Even with our troops involved in combat and America facing the threat of additional terrorist attacks, our declaration of "You are either with us or against us!" has replaced the forming of alliances based on a clear comprehension of mutual interests, including the threat of terrorism.

Another disturbing realization is that, unlike during other times of national crisis, the burden of conflict is now concentrated exclusively on the few heroic men and women sent back repeatedly to fight in the quagmire of Iraq. The rest of our nation has not been asked to make any sacrifice, and every effort has been made to conceal or minimize public awareness of casualties.

Instead of cherishing our role as the great champion of human rights, we now find civil liberties and personal privacy grossly violated under some extreme provisions of the Patriot Act.

Of even greater concern is that the U.S. has repudiated the Geneva accords and espoused the use of torture in Iraq, Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay, and secretly through proxy regimes elsewhere with the so-called extraordinary rendition program. It is embarrassing to see the president and vice president insisting that the CIA should be free to perpetrate "cruel, inhumane or degrading treatment or punishment" on people in U.S. custody.

Instead of reducing America's reliance on nuclear weapons and their further proliferation, we have insisted on our right (and that of others) to retain our arsenals, expand them, and therefore abrogate or derogate almost all nuclear arms control agreements negotiated during the last 50 years. We have now become a prime culprit in global nuclear proliferation. America also has abandoned the prohibition of "first use" of nuclear weapons against nonnuclear nations, and is contemplating the previously condemned deployment of weapons in space.

Protection of the environment has fallen by the wayside because of government subservience to political pressure from the oil industry and other powerful lobbying groups. The last five years have brought continued lowering of pollution standards at home and almost universal condemnation of our nation's global environmental policies.

Our government has abandoned fiscal responsibility by unprecedented favors to the rich, while neglecting America's working families. Members of Congress have increased their own pay by $30,000 per year since freezing the minimum wage at $5.15 per hour (the lowest among industrialized nations).

I am extremely concerned by a fundamentalist shift in many houses of worship and in government, as church and state have become increasingly intertwined in ways previously thought unimaginable.

As the world's only superpower, America should be seen as the unswerving champion of peace, freedom and human rights. Our country should be the focal point around which other nations can gather to combat threats to international security and to enhance the quality of our common environment. We should be in the forefront of providing human assistance to people in need.

It is time for the deep and disturbing political divisions within our country to be substantially healed, with Americans united in a common commitment to revive and nourish the historic political and moral values that we have espoused during the last 230 years.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-carter14nov14%2C0%2C7164514.story





Re: This isn't the real America by: Jimmy Carter
Tuesday, November 15, 2005 8:40 AM on j-body.org
Fine work from a Nobel Peace Prize laureate.




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


Re: This isn't the real America by: Jimmy Carter
Tuesday, November 15, 2005 9:04 AM on j-body.org
Fact


THE POLITICALLY INCORRECT ONE.

Re: This isn't the real America by: Jimmy Carter
Tuesday, November 15, 2005 12:13 PM on j-body.org
And the sad thing is only a small percentage of the American people see all these thins as a problem. I am so disgusted at the lack of common sense found here in the U.S. I fear these things will never change and the U.S. is on a very fast downward spiral. Even after the patriot act and the pres. blatently lied to the whole country I still see people sportin their W'04 stickers on their back bumpers. Wake up America!!

KevinP (Stabby McShankyou) wrote:
and I'm NOT a pedo. everyone knows i've got a wheelchair fetish.


Re: This isn't the real America by: Jimmy Carter
Tuesday, November 15, 2005 1:23 PM on j-body.org
Some of what he says has merrit but unfortunatly comeing from complete and utter
failure of a president what ever he says most people won't listen to. Its sad really




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.



Re: This isn't the real America by: Jimmy Carter
Tuesday, November 15, 2005 4:19 PM on j-body.org
How was he a failure? Because he was only in for one term, introduced sane energy legislation and didn't end up invading a small middle-eastern country that was going through socio-political upheaval that was seeded by American Presidents past?

What, Jack, would you label the current President? I mean, Utter Failure would be a few dozen steps up the ladder... let's be honest.



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


Re: This isn't the real America by: Jimmy Carter
Wednesday, November 16, 2005 7:48 AM on j-body.org
Uh lets see Gam other then his energy plan he did what exactly? He sat around and did squat when the hostages were taken in Iran. He backed down to almost every forign power that said "BOO" at us and basicly made the U.S. look weak in the worlds eyes. Way to go Jimbo!!

Now you know I have no love for our current president but seeing how hes been thru more in his terms then any other president in history I actualy think hes not done a horrible job all and all. I know you disagree but thats ok.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.



Re: This isn't the real America by: Jimmy Carter
Wednesday, November 16, 2005 9:05 AM on j-body.org
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Carter

Iran:
Quote:

The main conflict between human rights and U.S. interests came in Carter's dealings with the Shah of Iran. The Shah had been a strong ally of America since World War II, and was one of the "twin pillars" upon which U.S. strategic policy in the Middle East was built. However, his rule was strongly autocratic. Though Carter praised the Shah as a wise and valuable leader, when a popular uprising against the monarchy broke out in Iran, the Carter administration did not intervene.

The Shah was deposed and exiled. Many have since connected the Shah's dwindling U.S. support as a leading cause of his quick overthrow. Carter was initially prepared to recognize the revolutionary government of the monarch's successor, but his efforts proved futile.

In 1979, Carter out of humanitarian concerns allowed the deposed Shah, Mohammad Reza Pahlavi into the United States for political asylum and medical treatment. In response to the Shah's entry into the U.S., Iranian militants seized the American embassy in Tehran taking some 100 Americans hostage. The Iranians demanded (1) the return of the Shah to Iran for trial, (2) the return of the Shah's wealth to the Iranian people, (3) an admission of guilt by the United States for its past actions in Iran, plus an apology, and (4) a promise from the United States not to interfere in Iran's affairs in the future. Though later that year the Shah would leave the U.S. and die in Egypt, the Iran hostage crisis continued, and dominated the last year of Carter's presidency, even though almost half of the hostages were released. The subsequent responses to the crisis, from a "Rose Garden strategy" of staying inside the White House, to the unsuccessful attempt to rescue the hostages, were largely seen as contributing to defeat in the 1980 election.

<Snip>

Although the Carter team had negotiated with the hostage takers for release of the hostages, an agreement trusting the hostages takers to abide by their word was not signed until January 19, 1981, after the election of Ronald Reagan. The hostages had been held captive for 444 days, and their release happened just minutes after Carter left office. However, Reagan asked Carter to head to Germany to greet the hostages.


In other words, yet again, Reagan took credit for someone else's work.


Foreign Leaders:
Quote:

In December 1979, USSR invaded Afghanistan, after a Muslim insurgency overthrew the pro-Moscow Afghanistan government placed by a 1978 coup. The Soviet Union was evidently fearful that the Muslim uprising would spread from Iran and Afghanistan to the millions of Muslims in the USSR. After the invasion, Carter announced the Carter Doctrine: that the US would not allow any outside force to gain control of the Persian Gulf. Carter terminated the Russian Wheat Deal, a keystone Nixon Detente initiative to establish trade with USSR and lessen Cold War tensions. The grain exports had been beneficial to people employed in agriculture, and the Carter embargo marked the beginning of hardship for American farmers. He also prohibited Americans from participating in the 1980 Summer Olympics in Moscow, and reinstated registration for the draft for young males. Carter and Zbigniew Brzezinski started a $40 billion covert program of training Islamic fundamentalists in Pakistan and Afghanistan. In retrospect, this contributed to the collapse of the Soviet Union, and is also often blamed for the resulting instability of post-Soviet Afghani governments, which led to the rise of Islamic theocracy in the region. Some even tie the program to the 1996 coup that established the Taliban regime in Afghanistan and to the creation of violent Islamic terrorist groups.


And as for making the US look weak, I guess being responsible [ie: no need to apologise to the people of North Vietnam because the destruction was mutual], yeah.. that's weak.

Read it



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


Re: This isn't the real America by: Jimmy Carter
Wednesday, November 16, 2005 11:01 AM on j-body.org
So he stood by and did nothing to help a friendly mid east leader who liked us. Hmm,
doesn't sound too good for old Jimbo so far but I continued to read. I didn't read where Regan too the credit at all, Hell he even sent Carter over there to greet the freed hostages.

So good old Jimmy is to blame for the destabilization of the Soviet Union and the initial
training of the people who would eventually fly planes into the Trade Towers and the Pentagon.

DAMN now thats a legacy and half if you ask me. First being almost directly responsible for not helping an allie since W.W.II be over thrown so radical extremest wack jobs can run the country and be in a position of kid napping and holding hostage
Americans for 444 days, Helped supply training to the same wack jobs to fight the Soviets which eventually led to the break up of the Soviet Union allowing those very same wack jobs access to nuclear weapons on the black market that sprung up since the decline of the Soviet Union and the possible use of said nukes against us. And are the same wack jobs that al-queerda can trace there history back to, and they are the ones who flew the planes into this country and killed countless people on 9/11.

I take it back Gam he wasn't a do nothing president He was the single biggest FU-K UP
in history the history of the presidency!! If I were him I'd hang myself.


Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.



Re: This isn't the real America by: Jimmy Carter
Wednesday, November 16, 2005 1:43 PM on j-body.org
Jack: First off, with Iran, Ford (or was it Nixon??) had used USMC to put down a coup by the radical clerics and ayatollah's. Frankly, the Shah wasn't a great guy... Think Saddam Hussein without Chemical Weaponry, or rape squads, but everything else. Basically, the muslim revolt only succeeded with replacing one despot with another.

Also, if weren't for Ross Perot's cowboy antics, the Hostages would have been freed a lot faster. I hate to say it... Perot undermined Carter.

The Destabilisation in Russia had been happening for a long time before Carter got into office (Satellite states had been gaining somewhat more autonomy like Poland and their Solidarity movement). The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan couldn't have been stopped, but Carter and several other NATO nations and Israel agreed to funnel captured Warsaw pact weaponry, cash and military small unit/guerilla trainers to the area (same ones used in Nicaragua under Regan, with considerably poorer results). Had the programme been continued and Afghanistan helped out after the Soviets withdrew in 1986, and the government been re-stabilised, there wouldn't have been a radicalised Taliban leadership come to power because: There would have been no civil war. Regan dropped the ball on that one, and Bush Sr. didn't pick it up.




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


Re: This isn't the real America by: Jimmy Carter
Thursday, November 17, 2005 5:00 AM on j-body.org
So Carter fumbled and noone else picked up the ball. Way too many football comparos here my head hurts.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.




Re: This isn't the real America by: Jimmy Carter
Thursday, November 17, 2005 8:52 AM on j-body.org
Well, It's better than the hockey ones.

Really, had Carter been in 4 years later, or earlier, I don't think he'd have been a single term President.

I'm not a big fan of a lot of the Presidential types, but some of them get a worse rap than what they really deserve.



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


Re: This isn't the real America by: Jimmy Carter
Thursday, November 17, 2005 9:43 AM on j-body.org
Ya I found it very odd when Reagan went into power the immediately the hostages were let go. Hmmm (nods head in disgust)
That politics folks.


THE POLITICALLY INCORRECT ONE.

Re: This isn't the real America by: Jimmy Carter
Thursday, November 17, 2005 9:45 AM on j-body.org
Well if you would use hockey ones I'd be totaly lost. I know theres ice and skates but thats about all.

I'm not sure if 4 years in either direction would have saved him or not. I guess its possible but who knows.

You mean like good ole Dubbya!! I knew you liked him Gam!! And now your secret is out!! Welcome to the dark side my son. ( throws head back and lets out an evil laugh while rubbing hands together )




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.



Re: This isn't the real America by: Jimmy Carter
Thursday, November 17, 2005 11:08 AM on j-body.org
Yeah, I like Dubya... deep-fried... with ketchup. His Twin-daughters I'd have marinaded in whatever's cheapest @ the Bar.



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


Re: This isn't the real America by: Jimmy Carter
Thursday, November 17, 2005 11:56 AM on j-body.org
Sorry Mr.Goodwrench you slipped past me. Any way I think they released the hostages because they knew a Cowboy was replaceing that wishy washy Carter. And they knew they would get there butts kicked when a Republican got in office. So they caved right away cause they knew what was good for them.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.



Re: This isn't the real America by: Jimmy Carter
Thursday, November 17, 2005 5:11 PM on j-body.org
JAck: if you read the snippet, Over half the hostages were released long before Reagan was in office... Carter's people did the legwork, Reagan got the glory.




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


Re: This isn't the real America by: Jimmy Carter
Thursday, November 17, 2005 5:20 PM on j-body.org
Gam I was only kidding with you guys! Geez I may be right leaning but I haven't fallen over yet.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.



Re: This isn't the real America by: Jimmy Carter
Friday, November 18, 2005 5:49 AM on j-body.org
Jackalope wrote:So he stood by and did nothing to help a friendly mid east leader who liked us.


Wouldn't it be nice if more US leaders did that. We shouldn't be concerning ourselves with the problems of another countries as much as "Americans" would want us to. Why is it that the cost of "stabalizing" a foreign government is american lives, and the thanks is a "get out of our country americans, we want to @!#$ it up even more than we did before", sounds like a @!#$ty deal to me.

America need to start worrying about itself a little bit more, and let the "heathens" kill each other off. It works in the inner cities of america, why not in other countries?

Also I don't think Dubbya should be given any slack. No one said being president was easy, but I don't have enough fingers and toes to count the number of times he made the comment of, "It's a hard job" during the debates. Especially when you've spent more time vacationing than any other president in history. Last time I checked hard jobs required you to put in the extra hours to get stuff done.

Carter is right on the ball with that excerpt, and you can't argue with what he says so you attack him directly, because that's the American way as of late.


-Chris

Re: This isn't the real America by: Jimmy Carter
Friday, November 18, 2005 6:46 AM on j-body.org
Jack: I've got pillows ready for when you do...

IamRascal: The thing is, there's a difference between stabilising a country that has more or less fallen to pieces of it's own accord, and fixing a mess made years ago, and left to languish.

Afghanistan and Iraq were problems 15-20 years ago, but nothing was done in the interim to really stem the tide... the people that were in power just let it ride, and let it ride, until it became politically expedient to just ignore the problem until it blew up in someone else's face. It takes a boot to the head to get things done.




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


Re: This isn't the real America by: Jimmy Carter
Friday, November 18, 2005 8:03 AM on j-body.org
So your saying the problems that started under the Carter admin have been left to go and now we are we we are because of what he didn't do back then..... I thought I said the same thing.

Rascal, I'm not attacking what he said I'm attacking his adminastrations lack of doing anything to stem the tide of radicals in that region of the world when one of our allies needed our help. Now we are stuck with god knows how many terrorist nut jobs as almost a direct result of his lack of action. He can say what ever he wants to but history speeks loud enough for me thnks just the same.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.




Re: This isn't the real America by: Jimmy Carter
Friday, November 18, 2005 8:53 AM on j-body.org
JAck: To a degree... I think he was gunshy about Iran mainly because of the failed rescue.

Also, he had 4 years to deal with Nixon's and Ford's mess, and that wasn't enough time... To be fair, I don't think GHW Bush would have been able to deal with the problems, and GW Bush isn't helping out any either.




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


Re: This isn't the real America by: Jimmy Carter
Friday, November 18, 2005 9:41 AM on j-body.org
True very true. Ah! the hell with them lets just nuke the whole middle east that way we have 2 benifits. 1 all the free oil we can drink and 2 no more terrorists. As a side benifit the rest of the world will no longer talk smack to us either. China, bet they fall right in line after they see us wipe out an intire region of the world.

I just wish it were as easy as Rascal said in his post, we leave them alone and they leave us alone. But we both know that will never happen.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.



Re: This isn't the real America by: Jimmy Carter
Friday, November 18, 2005 11:34 AM on j-body.org
Jackalope wrote:True very true. Ah! the hell with them lets just nuke the whole middle east that way we have 2 benifits. 1 all the free oil we can drink and 2 no more terrorists. As a side benifit the rest of the world will no longer talk smack to us either. China, bet they fall right in line after they see us wipe out an intire region of the world.

I just wish it were as easy as Rascal said in his post, we leave them alone and they leave us alone. But we both know that will never happen.


True, but then we have nuclear fallout to deal with.

Thats why I say blitzkreig, and carpetbombing, lots of carpetbombing.


-Chris

Re: This isn't the real America by: Jimmy Carter
Friday, November 18, 2005 12:17 PM on j-body.org
You'd still have to deal with N. ireland and plain guys from Montana


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The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
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