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Re: Drugs VS Drugs
Thursday, December 01, 2005 7:42 PM on j-body.org
mikec2003 wrote:i don't see how people can say the government cant tax it......whats so different of tobbacco than weed? you could grow your own tobacco plants and make your own cigarettes right? same with weed


Yes, definitely. Most people would do that, if it didn't require a lot of care and labour to harvest, tan, clip and package Tobacco.


Labotomi: There is a test available (albeit, it's not portable)... it's done through Gas Chromatography IIRC.. It can determine the rough time at which you smoked because THC metabolises at a steady rate. It can also determine concentration which is the difference between second-hand smoke and direct medication. The test was actually developed after a Canadian Snowboarder got caught with trace elements of THC in his system, and he appealed the decision to strip him of his medal because of the finding.



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Re: Drugs VS Drugs
Thursday, December 01, 2005 7:55 PM on j-body.org
BaggedCav98 wrote:potheads have too much time on their hands


So do people who modify their cavaliers



Re: Drugs VS Drugs
Thursday, December 01, 2005 8:18 PM on j-body.org
I smoke I say legalize it. It should have never been outlawed.
Re: Drugs VS Drugs
Thursday, December 01, 2005 9:06 PM on j-body.org
bliZsham wrote:
cannon fodder wrote:
bliZsham wrote:way too many people smoke it


imho, that's exactly the problem.


How exactly is this a problem? There are so many people who smoke marijuana regularly and still live completely normal lives. They go to work on time, they love their families, take care of their children, pay their taxes... How can you possibly argue that just because you don't agree with it, it is a problem? Have you ever used it? Why would you make something illegal when almost half of the population has tried it, and MILLIONS of people use it regularly??? You just want to keep throwing your tax dollars at something that we clearly can't stop? We really need to change the ways we enforce our drug policies. Instead of taking all of this money to prosecute and lock up people who are otherwise harmless, we should be spending these tax dollars helping rehabilitate people who do have drug serious drug dependance problems. The "War on Drugs" has been a complete failure; although I'm not convinced you realize this. Drug laws create criminals. If there is no victim, there should be no crime. IMHO there's no place for consensual crimes in our society.


just because something doesn't affect your job, or you family life, or your dog's fur color, doesn't mean it's not a problem. granted, for a lot of people, it's not nearly as much of a problem as it is for others. it all depends on the amount of consumption. sure, there are many people who havn't had too many problems with it, but there are still a lot of people out there who have had severe consequences (and im not talking about just legally either).

"oh, but everyone's doing it"... yeah, that's really going to justify it. guess what cheif, most people speed too. you don't see the government legalizing speeding just cause MILLIONS of people do it regularly. they still issue tickets when they catch speeders. the government is still throwing tax dollars at something they clearly can't stop.

people try and justify street racing by saying "everyone does it, you can't stop it, they should just stop trying to stop us from doing it, duhr". the logic just isn't there to justify legalizing street racing, and just with your post, the logic is still NOT there to justify legalizing pot.

as for the concept of "drug laws create criminals", whereas i do see your logic in that statement, it's backwards. laws are created to protect people. it's the people who break those laws that create criminals - themselves. just because there are drug laws, doesn't mean criminals are suddenly appearing out of thin air. it's because people choose to break those laws that they become criminals.

your trying to justify doing pot simply is NOT going to sway my opinion of it, that it is or can be problematic. now, i don't care if you smoke pot, that's a choice that you make. if you want to break the law over something that's quite frankly retarded, good for you. but don't sit here and act like there are more benefits than consequences to smoking pot, or that it somehow makes you a better person.




Re: Drugs VS Drugs
Friday, December 02, 2005 4:45 AM on j-body.org
Canabis has been part of human culture for almost 30 000 years. laws banning the use of canabis are about 70 years old, and were just a way to start a war.

Geoge Washington smoked pot.

There are less negative effects from canabis consuption than there are from alcohol consuption.

Anti-drug laws creat criminals in the same way that alcohol prohibition gave huge power to the mafia in the US.

A study in New Zealand revealed that you are less likely to be invoved in an auto accident while under the influence of canabis.

The us prison system houses 25% of the worlds prisoners, approximately 180 000 people are in jail for minor possesion in the US.

As long as pot remains criminal, crime organizations are going to take something that should cost pennies and charge outrageous prices for it, then use that money to buy harder drugs, guns, etc. in order to extend their power base. Wanna kick the chair out from under the bikers? Legalize cannabis in small amounts.

There are numerous known medical benefits and much research to be done to look for more. As long as canabis is illegal, people are missing out on existing and possible future drug theapies. Those treatments would be low cost bringing in the two big ememies of legalization. The phamachemical industry doesn't like cheap drugs, and the pulp and paper industry looses benefit because the lumber industry hates cheap pulp and fibre.

Just some thing for you to think about. There's way more of course.

PAX
Re: Drugs VS Drugs
Friday, December 02, 2005 5:54 AM on j-body.org
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:
mikec2003 wrote:i don't see how people can say the government cant tax it......whats so different of tobbacco than weed? you could grow your own tobacco plants and make your own cigarettes right? same with weed


Yes, definitely. Most people would do that, if it didn't require a lot of care and labour to harvest, tan, clip and package Tobacco.
It really doesn't take much labor or care to grow tobacco. It's just when you try to grow it in bulk that it gets labor intensive. Growing up we had a ticket (allowance) to grow up to 15,000 lbs. That's after curing or dry weight. When you're growing tobacco by the acre it's difficult, when you're growing a couple dozen plants to get a few pounds of tobacco, it wouldn't be difficult or labor intensive at all.

There is a difference in final product though. I don't know what the tobacco companies did after they bought it from us, but it is different smoking a filterless camel or lucky strike than it is smoking one you rolled yourself. The store bought one was much smoother and had a better flavor. So, there is some refinement that happens after the growing and curing.

Maybe some companies would "refine" the pot after it was grown. Make it smoother to smoke. No more sticky fingers???
Re: Drugs VS Drugs
Friday, December 02, 2005 12:20 PM on j-body.org
i'm all for it, even tho i live in canada and they really care much about weed here... i've been busted with weed and coke and never got anything, no ticket, no apperance nothing.. i got to drive my car after they busted me with a joint in my hand. not that im bragging i thought for sure i was gonna get busted...

my buddy just got popped last week w/ over an ounce, 10 caps of oil, a scale and a small bit of hash.. all they did was take all his stuff, broke his scale and sent him on his way..

im not even sure how any of that has to do with anything, but im for it... i'm sick of getting my @!#$ stole and smoked by the @!#$ pigs..



Re: Drugs VS Drugs
Friday, December 02, 2005 4:54 PM on j-body.org
Here's something that no one has brought up yet... How are legal drugs different from illegal drugs? Let me elaborate on the question...

"Bill" goes to the doctor, says he's stressed out and can't cope. The doctor gives him a prescription for prozac, a daily "mellow" pill.

"Sandy" takes her kids to a pediatrician. Sandy's kids won't behave, so the doctor says they have ADHD and gives them ritalin, a junior strenth "mellow" pill.

Any of us could list 20 examples just like this, either people we know or maybe someone in our family. Didn't Elvis take about 20 prescription drugs a day?

So the point is, drugs aren't bad as long as you have a prescription for them. The only real crime associated with illegal drugs is if you have to steal to support your habit or if you get baked and drive. Both problems could be said of alcohol as well.

And as far as abusers, if you look at anything, I don't care if it's Pepsi drinking, Big Macs or cheap beer, there will be those who regularly over do it. But they're not the norm. Most people can go to a bar, have a few and get home safely. If it's such a big problem, why are bars allowed to have parking lots? Why not ban parking lots at bars, wouldn't that deter people from driving there?

Just for the record, I don't use drugs, but think they should be legal. Let's free up some jail space for real criminals, like rapists and murderers.




John Wilken
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Re: Drugs VS Drugs
Friday, December 02, 2005 5:09 PM on j-body.org
John Wilken wrote:Here's something that no one has brought up yet... How are legal drugs different from illegal drugs? Let me elaborate on the question...

"Bill" goes to the doctor, says he's stressed out and can't cope. The doctor gives him a prescription for prozac, a daily "mellow" pill.

"Sandy" takes her kids to a pediatrician. Sandy's kids won't behave, so the doctor says they have ADHD and gives them ritalin, a junior strenth "mellow" pill.

Any of us could list 20 examples just like this, either people we know or maybe someone in our family. Didn't Elvis take about 20 prescription drugs a day?

So the point is, drugs aren't bad as long as you have a prescription for them. The only real crime associated with illegal drugs is if you have to steal to support your habit or if you get baked and drive. Both problems could be said of alcohol as well.

And as far as abusers, if you look at anything, I don't care if it's Pepsi drinking, Big Macs or cheap beer, there will be those who regularly over do it. But they're not the norm. Most people can go to a bar, have a few and get home safely. If it's such a big problem, why are bars allowed to have parking lots? Why not ban parking lots at bars, wouldn't that deter people from driving there?

Just for the record, I don't use drugs, but think they should be legal. Let's free up some jail space for real criminals, like rapists and murderers.



Dude wtf are you talking about drugs arent bad unless you have a prescription for them? Its the same pills man, its not like they wont prescribe people who abuse drugs drugs! They'll give pain meds to virtually anyone.



Re: Drugs VS Drugs
Friday, December 02, 2005 5:58 PM on j-body.org
Exactly my point, Rick. You can be the biggest stoner and as long as it's all prescribed by a doctor you're not going to be arrested. But if you recreationally party you are breaking the law.

What's really scary is that if you're paying for it, you could see more than one doctor and get multiple prescriptions. As long as you're not putting it on your health insurance, there's no way for them to know who else you've been to.





John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
Auto
Re: Drugs VS Drugs
Saturday, December 03, 2005 9:09 AM on j-body.org
Labotomi wrote:It really doesn't take much labor or care to grow tobacco. It's just when you try to grow it in bulk that it gets labor intensive. Growing up we had a ticket (allowance) to grow up to 15,000 lbs. That's after curing or dry weight. When you're growing tobacco by the acre it's difficult, when you're growing a couple dozen plants to get a few pounds of tobacco, it wouldn't be difficult or labor intensive at all.


True.. It's not hard to do it yourself but....

Quote:

There is a difference in final product though. I don't know what the tobacco companies did after they bought it from us, but it is different smoking a filterless camel or lucky strike than it is smoking one you rolled yourself. The store bought one was much smoother and had a better flavor. So, there is some refinement that happens after the growing and curing.


The Curing and Tanning is the difference... Different companies use different methods, woods in the tanning fires, times, humidity... it's more of an art than a science. They also use chemicals to strip off the really nasty tasting oils and junk that make home-rolled smell/taste bad.

Maybe some companies would "refine" the pot after it was grown. Make it smoother to smoke. No more sticky fingers???
Ehhh... I doubt it. You'd be surprised about the refinement of the pot thats out now. Typically, the smell doesn't really make it high on the concern list... Grow-op grown pot and ditch-weed smell the same when smoked... the difference is the THC content. Some of the stuff that's being grown now (nothern lights, AK-47) is beating older skunk pot in THC content by as much as 5x.



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.



Re: Drugs VS Drugs
Saturday, December 03, 2005 1:04 PM on j-body.org
They could strip the plant of it's trichome glands (thc producers) and press the glands into hashish, making a consistant product (regarding potentcy) that would require less smoking (neg health effect). The product consistancy would allow for commecial sale (I suggest through liquor outlets) and control of the THC content. Buyers would be required to produce ID proving adulthood (keeping it out of the hands of kids, right now pot is easier to get than alcohol for minors), and a possible tracking system if intoxication is in question. IE: IF a person were charged with DUI but contested that the THC in their system were days old, the court could find evidence that showed they bought the drug that day, or whatever (that idea is really rough and may have to be scrapped).

There are numerous benefits from this plan.
First, remove the underground drug market currently funding many crimnal organizations.
Second, remove the relatively easy access from children, not fool proof but better.
Third, give access to consistant and affordable cannabinoids to medical users.
Forth develope a system of information and education regarding canabis use and possible dangers. Encourage responsible use, similar to alcohol champains now. Lets face it, people do use canabis recreationaly and they're not about to stop.
Fifth, tax revenue. It'd be huge too. If large grow operations were run efficiently and the drug sold at current street prices the profits would be enormous. This is a plant that is called "weed" for a reason, it grows just about everywhere and doesn't really require much attention, produces well and the "fruit" is worth about half the price of gold. Gold is way harder to get

Given the history of canabis in human civilization, the many evonmental benefits from hemp pulp and fibre production. The reduced input costs for many manufactured products (they say hemp oil can replace petrolium products in almost all applications). The fact that people are never going to stop using it and yet it really doesn't show on the radar of social problems. The health benefits for some people. etc etc etc. It seems to me a no-brainer that it should be treated much the same as alcohol where restricted controlled use is legal, home production is allowed but very limited (like home made wine). This would free up police resources and get many people out of jail who's one offence was getting caught with a small amount of plant matter in their possession. I think this would lead to a much healthier attitude toward all drug use in general, drawing a clear line between relatively beneign drugs and the truely dangerous ones (heroin, cocain, metheamphetamine, etc etc etc). As it stands now, canabis is lumped in with them as "illicit" and because it is relatively harmless it makes the others look less dangerous too.


PAX


Did you know that hemp yields 4 times as much pulp and fibre suitable for paper production per acre than trees per year?

Did you know that hemp seed is a very nutritious ceral crop that will grow in poor conditions and out yeild most grail crops grown in excellent conditions? (world food shortage?)
Re: Drugs VS Drugs
Saturday, December 03, 2005 4:43 PM on j-body.org
Hahahaha wrote:Canabis has been part of human culture for almost 30 000 years. laws banning the use of canabis are about 70 years old, and were just a way to start a war.

Geoge Washington smoked pot.

There are less negative effects from canabis consuption than there are from alcohol consuption.

Anti-drug laws creat criminals in the same way that alcohol prohibition gave huge power to the mafia in the US.

A study in New Zealand revealed that you are less likely to be invoved in an auto accident while under the influence of canabis.

The us prison system houses 25% of the worlds prisoners, approximately 180 000 people are in jail for minor possesion in the US.

As long as pot remains criminal, crime organizations are going to take something that should cost pennies and charge outrageous prices for it, then use that money to buy harder drugs, guns, etc. in order to extend their power base. Wanna kick the chair out from under the bikers? Legalize cannabis in small amounts.

There are numerous known medical benefits and much research to be done to look for more. As long as canabis is illegal, people are missing out on existing and possible future drug theapies. Those treatments would be low cost bringing in the two big ememies of legalization. The phamachemical industry doesn't like cheap drugs, and the pulp and paper industry looses benefit because the lumber industry hates cheap pulp and fibre.

Just some thing for you to think about. There's way more of course.

PAX


http://www.brown.edu/Student_Services/Health_Services/Health_Education/atod/marijuana.htm

"Are there short-term dangers of smoking marijuana?
Discomforts associated with smoking marijuana include dry mouth, dry eyes, increased heart rate and visible signs of intoxication such as bloodshot eyes and puffy eyelids. Other problems include:


Impaired memory and ability to learn
Difficulty thinking and problem solving
Anxiety attacks or feelings of paranoia
Impaired muscle coordination and judgment
Increased susceptibility to infections
Dangerous impairment of driving skills. Studies show that it impairs braking time, attention to traffic signals and other driving behaviors.
Cardiac problems for people with heart disease or high blood pressure, because marijuana increases the heart rate
It is virtually impossible to overdose from marijuana, which sets it apart from most drugs.

Are there long-term consequences to smoking marijuana?
Respiratory problems
Someone who smokes marijuana regularly can have many of the same respiratory problems as cigarette smokers. Persistent coughing, symptoms of bronchitis and more frequent chest colds are possible symptoms. There are over 400 chemicals that have been found in marijuana smoke. Benzyprene, a known human carcinogen, is present in marijuana smoke. Regardless of the THC content, the amount of tar inhaled by marijuana smokers and the level of carbon monoxide are 3 to 5 times higher than in cigarette smoke. This is most likely due to inhaling marijuana more deeply, holding the smoke in the lungs and because marijuana smoke is unfiltered.

Memory and learning
Recent research shows that regular marijuana use compromises the ability to learn and to remember information by impairing the ability to focus, sustain, and shift attention. One study also found that long-term use reduces the ability to organize and integrate complex information.

In addition, marijuana impairs short-term memory and decreases motivation to accomplish tasks, even after the high is over. In one study, even small doses impaired the ability to recall words from a list seen 20 minutes earlier.

Fertility
Long-term marijuana use suppresses the production of hormones that help regulate the reproductive system. For men, this can cause decreased sperm counts and very heavy users can experience erectile dysfunction. Women may experience irregular periods from heavy marijuana use. These problems would most likely result in a decreased ability to conceive but not lead to complete infertility."
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/hemp/medical/HOME.HTM

"Acute effects
anxiety, dysphoria, panic and paranoia, especially in naive users;
cognitive impairment, especially of attention and memory, for the duration of intoxication;
psychomotor impairment, and probably an increased risk of accident if an intoxicated person attempts to drive a motor vehicle, or operate machinery;
an increased risk of experiencing psychotic symptoms among those who are vulnerable because of personal or family history of psychosis;
an increased risk of low birth weight babies if cannabis is used during pregnancy.



Chronic effects
The major health and psychological effects of chronic heavy cannabis use, especially daily use over many years, remain uncertain. On the available evidence, the major probable adverse effects appear to be:

respiratory diseases associated with smoking as the method of administration, such as chronic bronchitis, and the occurrence of histopathological changes that may be precursors to the development of malignancy.
development of a cannabis dependence syndrome, characterised by an inability to abstain from or to control cannabis use;
subtle forms of cognitive impairment, most particularly of attention and memory, which persist while the user remains chronically intoxicated, and may or may not be reversible after prolonged abstinence from cannabis.

The following are the major possible adverse effects of chronic, heavy cannabis use which remain to be confirmed by further research:

an increased risk of developing cancers of the aerodigestive tract, i.e. oral cavity, pharynx, and oesophagus;
an increased risk of leukemia among offspring exposed while in utero;
a decline in occupational performance marked by underachievement in adults in occupations requiring high level cognitive skills, and impaired educational attainment in adolescents;
birth defects occurring among children of women who used cannabis during their pregnancies. "

http://www.gdcada.org/statistics/marijuana.htm

"Effects of Marijuana on the Brain
Researchers have found that THC changes the way in which sensory information gets into and is acted on by the hippocampus. This is a component of the brain’s limbic system that is crucial for learning, memory, and the integration of sensory experiences with emotions and motivations. Investigations have shown that THC suppresses neurons in the information processing system of the hippocampus. In addition, researchers have discovered that learned behaviors, which depend on the hippocampus, also deteriorate.

Effects of Marijuana on the Lungs
Someone who smokes marijuana regularly may have many of the same respiratory problems that tobacco smokers have. These individuals may have daily cough and phlegm, symptoms of chronic bronchitis, and more frequent chest colds. Continuing to smoke marijuana can lead to abnormal functioning of lung tissue injured or destroyed by marijuana smoke.
x
x Regardless of the THC content, the amount of tar inhaled by marijuana smokers and the level of carbon monoxide absorbed are three to five times greater than among tobacco smokers. This may be due to marijuana users inhaling more deeply and holding the smoke in the lungs.

Other Short Term Effects
Dry mouth and/or throat, problems with memory and learning, distorted perception (sights, sounds, time, touch), trouble with thinking and problem solving, loss of motor coordination, increased heart rate, and anxiety. These effects are even greater when other drugs are mixed with marijuana.
x
x Persons high on marijuana show the same lack of coordination on standard drunk driver tests as do people who have had too much to drink.

Long Term Effects
Marijuana smoke contains some of the same cancer-causing compounds as tobacco, sometimes in higher concentrations. Someone who smokes 1 to 3 joints can produce the same lung damage and potential cancer risk as smoking five times as many cigarettes."
http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/ongoing/marijuana.html

"Q: Does marijuana pose health risks to users?

Marijuana is an addictive drug1 with significant health consequences to its users and others. Many harmful short-term and long-term problems have been documented with its use:


The short term effects of marijuana use include: memory loss, distorted perception, trouble with thinking and problem solving, loss of motor skills, decrease in muscle strength, increased heart rate, and anxiety2.


In recent years there has been a dramatic increase in the number of emergency room mentions of marijuana use. From 1993-2000, the number of emergency room marijuana mentions more than tripled.


There are also many long-term health consequences of marijuana use. According to the National Institutes of Health, studies show that someone who smokes five joints per week may be taking in as many cancer-causing chemicals as someone who smokes a full pack of cigarettes every day.


Marijuana contains more than 400 chemicals, including most of the harmful substances found in tobacco smoke. Smoking one marijuana cigarette deposits about four times more tar into the lungs than a filtered tobacco cigarette.


Harvard University researchers report that the risk of a heart attack is five times higher than usual in the hour after smoking marijuana.3


Smoking marijuana also weakens the immune system4 and raises the risk of lung infections.5 A Columbia University study found that a control group smoking a single marijuana cigarette every other day for a year had a white-blood-cell count that was 39 percent lower than normal, thus damaging the immune system and making the user far more susceptible to infection and sickness.6


Users can become dependent on marijuana to the point they must seek treatment to stop abusing it. In 1999, more than 200,000 Americans entered substance abuse treatment primarily for marijuana abuse and dependence.


More teens are in treatment for marijuana use than for any other drug or for alcohol. Adolescent admissions to substance abuse facilities for marijuana grew from 43 percent of all adolescent admissions in 1994 to 60 percent in 1999.


Marijuana is much stronger now than it was decades ago. According to data from the Potency Monitoring Project at the University of Mississippi, the tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) content of commercial-grade marijuana rose from an average of 3.71 percent in 1985 to an average of 5.57 percent in 1998. The average THC content of U.S. produced sinsemilla increased from 3.2 percent in 1977 to 12.8 percent in 1997.7


Re: Drugs VS Drugs
Saturday, December 03, 2005 6:05 PM on j-body.org
^^ im with him. mainly because im 15 and i have lost every one of my friends to weed. it gets old. i now have no life because all my friends do is smoke and i wont. another bad thing is that when you smoke weed you are more likly to want to do worse likes like coke and all that. on the other hand i think its bs that alchohal is legal when its just a bad as pot really. maybe it would be ok if you had to be 18/21+ and you had a limit to how much you could smoke.




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Re: Drugs VS Drugs
Saturday, December 03, 2005 7:10 PM on j-body.org
cory:

that's fine, and i agree with it a lot (inhaling smoke does a lot of tthe damage your quote speaks of), but tell me...on risks of THC itself (i.e. ingessted), what are the rsisks of that as opposed to, say, chewing tobacco?


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Re: Drugs VS Drugs
Saturday, December 03, 2005 8:18 PM on j-body.org
Anything bad that can be said of canabis is nothing compaired to many legal drugs including alcohol and tobacco. People recognize that we are adults and able to make our own choices regarding alcohol and tobacco use, but when it comes to a slightly less noxious drug, we are not.. strange don't you think?

The real reason behind canabis prohibition has nothing to do with drug or health effects. It does have everything to do with the pulp and paper industry, the petrochemical industry, and the pharachemical industry. All are threatened by canabis, two of them by low to no THC producing hemp strains that could not realisticly be used recreationaly. I bet cotton growers have no love for the plant either.

Some of the propaganda you posted was misleading as well. Yes, THC impares your ability to drive, through muscle control and reaction time, the part they left out was that you know and recognize the imparement and eith are unwilling to drive or are very cautious. A study in New Zealand revealed that people are 40% less likely to be involved in an accident when impared by THC than a sober person!?!? The best part was that they recruited volenteers, got them to smoke a joint, then asked them to drive (for one part of the study), a portion of the volenteers refused to drive. Enough that those numbers had to be discarded because the sample size that was willing to drive was too small to have statistical signifigence. They then started testing all people who were hospitalized as a result of a motor vehicle accident. The only people they found with THC in thier blood were either passengers or the not-at-fault driver in the case.

One effect of THC is both good and bad... Paranoia. You see people who smoke pot like to stay put, where they're comfortable. They are unlikely to drive once impaired. The effects only last 2 to 3 (or so) hours as well, unlike alcohol where you can wake up drunk the next morning if you drink enough the day before. Many impoared drivers are caught on their way home the day after the party.

PAX
Re: Drugs VS Drugs
Saturday, December 03, 2005 10:47 PM on j-body.org
whoever says weed is a gateway drug should be shot. I have smoked pot and do regularly but I have never once tried any other drug. I have had friends do coke,meth,shrooms,opium in front of me and i didn't have the urge to do it. The so called gateway is yourself if you let yourself do it then yea your going to do it. But when you sit there and say nah i don't wanna then you don't do it. Weed should be legal its already becoming legal in some citys like Denver for instance. My parents tax dollars should go towards stopping harder drugs like Coke, and Meth not towards weed. I have driven when i was high its not much different then driving when sober. I think you actually pay more attention because I would get worried about making sure i do everything right and not speed so i don't get picked up by the po-poes.


Thanx Charles
Re: Drugs VS Drugs
Sunday, December 04, 2005 1:51 AM on j-body.org
Charles wrote:whoever says weed is a gateway drug should be shot. I have smoked pot and do regularly but I have never once tried any other drug. I have had friends do coke,meth,shrooms,opium in front of me and i didn't have the urge to do it. The so called gateway is yourself if you let yourself do it then yea your going to do it. But when you sit there and say nah i don't wanna then you don't do it. Weed should be legal its already becoming legal in some citys like Denver for instance. My parents tax dollars should go towards stopping harder drugs like Coke, and Meth not towards weed. I have driven when i was high its not much different then driving when sober. I think you actually pay more attention because I would get worried about making sure i do everything right and not speed so i don't get picked up by the po-poes.


the experience isn't the same for every single person. just because you havn't had the urge to try other drugs doesn't mean that's not the case for everyone else. weed IS a gateway drug, because it's so easy to obtain. people start with that, and once the high of weed isn't enough, they sometimes turn to harder drugs. your friends that do the heavier drugs, have you ever asked them why they aren't content to just smoke weed? cause it's not enough for them anymore. it's called a gateway drug cause smoking it can lead to doing heavier drugs. like walking through a gateway into a bigger room, people start there and move on to the next "room" or heavier drugs. have you read any studies, or are you just saying that it's true for everyone cause so far it's been true for you?




Re: Drugs VS Drugs
Sunday, December 04, 2005 2:12 AM on j-body.org
Charles wrote:I have driven when i was high its not much different then driving when sober. I think you actually pay more attention because I would get worried about making sure i do everything right and not speed so i don't get picked up by the po-poes.

I hope you're not serious. If you are I hope someone slaps some sense into you very soon.


Cory Forson wrote:Acute effects
anxiety, dysphoria, panic and paranoia, especially in naive users;
cognitive impairment, especially of attention and memory, for the duration of intoxication;
psychomotor impairment, and probably an increased risk of accident if an intoxicated person attempts to drive a motor vehicle, or operate machinery

Yeah, not much different than sober.
Re: Drugs VS Drugs
Sunday, December 04, 2005 8:08 AM on j-body.org
My main distinction between marijuana and tobacco/alcohol is the duration of the effects. When you get drunk, you're drunk for a night (typically). When you smoke tobacco, if you still even get a buzz, it quickly fades. With Marijuana however, the effects don't go away overnight, they slowly linger away. When I stopped a few years back, it took awhile for me to fully feel 'sober'.

My main concern is that it really cannot be used entirely recreationally. Use one night can transfer into morning, which includes driving, working, etc. While there are issues with personal liberties, it still can pose both many risks.

Now, not believeing that it should be legalized doesn't mean that I approve to the current system of enforcement. First off, IMO the jurisdiction for these laws needs to be within the state systems, not the federal system. The only way for the federal legislature to pass a law against marijuana usage was to pass it under the commerce clause (*cough*, ). In my opinion, this is not a federal issue, it should be determined on a state by state basis. In addition, I would disagree with the harshness of penalties. Jailtime for marijuana just doesn't set well with me (excluding certain circumstances)...




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Re: Drugs VS Drugs
Sunday, December 04, 2005 8:27 AM on j-body.org
^^ That's plain untrue ^^

The intoxicating effects of Canabis are gone in 2 to 6 hours from the ceasation of consumption. the 6 hour timeframe is only there to cover oral consumption (eating cannabutter cookies or whatever). There is some lingering effect on energy levels etc, but the imparment of cognative ability and muscle control is gone. Alcohol dissapates at a steady rate regardless of how much is consumed. When talkign with police here (because they set up a "RIDE" stop on a sunday morning) I was told that many many impared drivers are caught the day after the party. They think that because they slept they are now sobre. That's not true. If you weigh 150 lbs and you had 12 drinks from 9pm to 1 am (not unheard of) weather you sleep or not the you are still leagally impared at 9am the next morning, minumum. Depending on circumastance you could be impared until 1pm the next day. Coffee is often turned to in order to "sobre up" but it actually makes the situation worse because cafine accentuates the effect of alcohol.

If alcohol is OK, then canabis should be too. Alcohol has more negative effects both on your health (abuse) and socially.

PAX

Re: Drugs VS Drugs
Sunday, December 04, 2005 5:28 PM on j-body.org
exactly its not like i drove rite after getting stoned. I was jsut saying its nothing like being drunk and yes i have asked my firneds bout @!#$ like why do other drugs. Its not that weed isnt enough they just want to try something else. The way i see it weed isnt a gateway drug because i think its really up to the mind of the person. Some my frineds started on shrroms and no one is calling that the gateway drug. I have also had frineds that did acid 1st and they went to weed. Im not trying to pick any sides i just think its not that big of a deal compared to coke/meth. I got a friend that got busted with a pipe and 1/4 of weed. He now is going to be in jail all over weed. If the goverment is going to make it illegal then they should at least not make the penitalys so high. thats jsut my thought on it tho


Thanx Charles
Re: Drugs VS Drugs
Monday, December 05, 2005 6:47 AM on j-body.org
Cannon Fodder... You point out, quite rightly, that the experience isn't the same for everyone. That's true, and therefore we need to concern oursdelves with the majority. Just as alcoholism is a problem surrounding alcohol, not everyone who drinks becomes an alcoholic. In fact, the vast majority do not. Same goes for canabis consumption, yes, some people will move on to other drugs, but the vast majority do not. If it were truely a "gateway" drug, there would be far more junkies on the street. Huge numbers of people have had canabis at some time or another but only a very small number of people ever use heroine or cocain. Part of the "gateway" effect could be removed by removing the product from the hands of the underworld as well. When you go to the liquore store, chances are they are not also selling cocain, so you have no temptation to use cocain. If the people selling canabis only sold canabis and it was not thrust into the dirty underbelly of society, less people would be exposed to "hard" drugs, and therefore never tempted in the first place.

Zero use is impossible, we sould do the right thing and promote responsibility instead of spreading thinly veiled propaganda that no resonable person believes anyway.

PAX
Re: Drugs VS Drugs
Monday, December 05, 2005 1:24 PM on j-body.org
[quote=ßãggéÐÇåv98 (Ûñqùðtäߣè Øñé)]potheads have too much time on their hands

good point ..............


"Boost tuning"....... have you had your 8 PSI today?

future name of the winter shop!!!
Re: Drugs VS Drugs
Monday, December 05, 2005 2:24 PM on j-body.org
hahah exactly waht i was trying to say. There are ppl that drink way to much and then there are ppl that drink at a bar and are able to limit themselves and drive home. Weed is the exact same way sure some ppl might go on to hard drugs but then there is the more responsible ppl that smoke and that is all. There not High all the time just every so often. I really dont think weed is addicting. Like i am quiting smoking cigs and thast hard i could quit smoking pot easyer because it costs so much


Thanx Charles
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