Z24 FReQ (Jarett) wrote:Tristan wrote:Thankyou Agustin and Rob S and the few others who see the light in this issue.
The fact is plain and simple, we cannot afford to get rid of all the illegals. The price is far too high. 500 billion to deport all of them, and my guess is that doesn't even include the resources it would take to find all of the illegals, and watch as many businesses collapse. That doesn't sound too pretty to me. And you guys keep calling them criminals and keep saying "they came illegally and broke the law." Yeah, you're right. But as I've said before, the government practically opened the door for them. They are to blame for so much of this. But, we should just make the illegals pay for the mistakes of our government, right? I agree with Agustin, I don't see much wrong with the plan that was voted down. It's not amnesty, and they have to actually take the classes and become citizens. Sounds good to me.
I can agree with this, but... since the plan was voted down, what do we do now?
That's a good question, one which I don't really have an answer for. I'd suggest writing senators and trying to get them to reconsider and stop playing retarded poltics, but they often have their secretaries and staff send you back complete and utter filth saying how much they appreciate your concern.
kind of a rhetorical question... but no worries.
they are going to play retarded politics, because that's what we pay them for. [/sarcasm]
there's not much we can do right now, except bitch, moan, and complain... and remember what politician does what, and keep that in mind for the next time we go to the polls.
Desert Tuners
“When you come across a big kettle of crazy, it’s best not to stir it.”
Oddly enough my friend was offered $2 more an hour at Home Depot becuase he spoke English. Ususally it's the other way around.
I read this on another forum.
Quote:
On a similar note, someone on another forum suggested that instead of just giving amnesty to everyone here illegally (like some of the bills are proposing) that we give amnesty to illegals that work on building a wall on the border. That way we can put up a wall at a cheaper price and those illegals willing to help us can get amnesty; everyone wins. I definately like that idea.
uecavboy wrote:Ok, How's this sound, for the 10th time. Wow guys, really? 500 billion eh? Yes, I understand rounding them up like cattle and deporting them would cost 500 billion dollars, great, I have wrapped the figure around my head. 500 billion.
Again I will state. Perhaps if we rained holy hell down onto the businesses that support these criminals, we impose SERIOUS penalties. Penalties to the point where no business would be dumb enough to hire illegals. THEN since illegals can't find any work in this country, they wil llive on their own. THERE, for the 10th time. There's a way to not spend 500 billion.
And oh yea, I forgot. The GOVERNMENT is to blame for illegal aliens slipping through the border. DUH, I completely forgot we opened the borders for them to come into.
Thank you Z24 FReQ. And to rob. If their called "illegal" it's because they came here "illegally" and if websters is correct, illegal means breaking the law.
I suppose I'll just stop posting about this topic. I can't handle all these niave people. Agustin, at least you have information to provide instead of a only your personal beliefs.
Soooo...you're proposing starving 11 million people to go back home? How expensive do you think THOSE consequences will be? You think they're resentful now? How about when their kids are crying for food when a week before they weren't bothering anybody?
Further, what about the lost education dollars spent on the millions of kids who weren't born here, but were too young to know of Mexico and we've educated all these years? Why would we send educated kids back to Mexico? How is that in our best interest? Aren't conservatives ALL ABOUT waste in education?
How are you going to deal with the illegals that own their own business and provide jobs for others? Yes, in California, there are hundreds of illegal-owned business here in my county of 1 million alone.
Further, do we really want to anger the populace that's right south of our border? When South America is growing increasingly angry over our trade policy and our meddling in their affairs, we need all the latin-american support we can get. Mexico is a strong ally and a huge trading partner.
Here is an example of the consquences when the labor isn't avaiable, thanks to yesterday's protests...
http://www.fresnobee.com/local/story/12126896p-12875784c.html
Quote:
"The farming company had one tractor driver instead of about 30, one irrigator instead of about 25 and one 30-person lettuce harvesting crew instead of about 18 crews."
This is in the area that is THE LARGEST food provider IN THE WORLD.
http://www.npr.org/programs/atc/features/2002/nov/central_valley/
(in bold for needed emphasis)
Quote:
"The 400-mile-long Central Valley supplies fully one-quarter of the food America eats."
And I suppose high school kids are going to drive those tractors, right?
The get rid of illegals argument is so weak I can only imagine that those who think it's a good idea are those who don't comprehend their contribution. Read a damn economic paper, somebody, PLEASE.
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Now, you know this doesn't just go for the mexican illegal immigrants....this goes for the other immigrants which whom the government pays to start there own business up in america....and don't have to pay tax for (if i'm not mistaken) 7 years or so... Why do we do that? I know we have to have our gas stations with Saddam's cousin's as the owner. I (IMO) think that they should have no advantages over us and start out with everything we start off with....NOTHING. Well, i am through expressing my freedom of speech which is the right that I/WE have fought for in the past that these immigrants has played no part in and all of a sudden since they're on american turf they think they can play our game....like there american's or something! #%#$ That!!!!
NEW SIG COMING SOON FOR 07'!!!
thank you for all you retards out their... i completely forgot all they want to do is make a better life, they want freedom, I mean really are they really going to hurt anyone...these are good people, these are people that already broke the law i mean yeah they will be law biding citizens.........TELL THAT TO DALLAS POLICE OFFICER BRYAN JACKSON!!!!!
he was shot by an illegal alien and when they caught the SOB his response as to the question "why did you shot the police officer" this SOB's response was "because it was EASY" yeah lets have all these great meaning people that already broke the law stay here lets just bend over so we can take in the arse hell lets call the french and say thanks for making us sorry panzy @$$ cowards.
I'll ask again since no one seems to have answered me. Why do you insist on defending someone who has broken the law ? They are here illegally so why should they have any rights ?
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
Jackalope wrote:I'll ask again since no one seems to have answered me. Why do you insist on defending someone who has broken the law ? They are here illegally so why should they have any rights ?
Mainly because you're asking a black-and-white question of a very grey matter.
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03silverecocav (Gabe) wrote:thank you for all you retards out their... i completely forgot all they want to do is make a better life, they want freedom, I mean really are they really going to hurt anyone...these are good people, these are people that already broke the law i mean yeah they will be law biding citizens.........TELL THAT TO DALLAS POLICE OFFICER BRYAN JACKSON!!!!!
he was shot by an illegal alien and when they caught the SOB his response as to the question "why did you shot the police officer" this SOB's response was "because it was EASY" yeah lets have all these great meaning people that already broke the law stay here lets just bend over so we can take in the arse hell lets call the french and say thanks for making us sorry panzy @$$ cowards.
So you're going to take your
anecdotal evidence over widely accepted statistics?
http://www.cis.org/articles/2001/crime/toc.html#fear
Quote:
Few stereotypes of immigrants are as enduring, or have been proven so categorically false over literally decades of research, as the notion that immigrants are disproportionately likely to engage in criminal activity…(If anything) immigrants are disproportionately unlikely to be criminal.
The link goes to MANY cited government and university examples of this research.
Next!
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No it is a black and white question. Is it legal or illegal ? Theres or grey area there.
They are here legally or they are here illegaly, YOU guys are the ones trying to turn a simple right or wrong into more then it is. You say it would cost too much, Fine open all the doors in all the prisons cause that costs a ton too. You say the country could function without them, I had ZERO issues on their protest day so obviously it doesn't make a difference at all.
Why do you guys insist on defending these people who are breaking the law every single day since they got here ? How can you say they are honest law abideing citizens when the very fact of them being here means they are breaking the law ! These people are daily repeat offenders and are criminals.
And untill they get their citizenship one way or the other they are niothing more then common criminals and should be treated as such. As soon as they have their papers they're welcome.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
It's not a black and white issue. Let me give you an example of a issue that came to me a few nights ago that wasn't as easy as it looked.
Kid brings home a note from the teacher. It's a discipline note that says "Not working on assignment". At first, I get mad. I ask him, "Well what were you doing?" He says, "Reading my book".
I'm like..um...well why were you reading the book and not working on the homework? He says he forgot about it. Of course, forgetting to do your work is bad.
He wasn't , however, screwing around, goofing off, refusing to do the work, sleeping in class,.... he was still doing school work, just the wrong one.
My problem was this... how do I dole out punishment? I mean..forgetting work IS bad! I decided a warning about not being forgetful was plenty, and I signed the discipline note and added "Kid says he was reading and simply forgot about assignment. Details about issue would be helpful in the future in resolving this issue at home. Pleae verify." His teacher did.
My point is this... is deporting them and constantly calling them criminals fitting the crime? The crime committed is crossing the border...
But where is the crime in feeding your kids, supporting family back home, building houses, picking our food, working our machines, washing our dishes, caring for our kids? Where's the crime in that?
Like I said before, the President's plan over a fine and required classes is more than fair. Do you disagree? Why pay money to get them out when they can pay us to continue to stay? It's better than your dumb prison example, because we no longer require prisoners to earn their keep with work. And who disgrees with making them work?
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no you liberal, lets bend over and take it all...... i'm taking the fact that their illegal tell me thats a grey matter what they did...is it or is it not illegal?? and if you say its not illegal then your ted kennedy's best friend. if people liek you ran this country and thank god they didn't during the invasion of normendy you would have turned back becuase it looked to hard..your so ready to just give in and not fight for what s right and just. and listen to your own little speech^^^^ was he or was he not told to do his homework?? so the kid can't remember what his teacher told hi to do?? thats real great alot of help its going to do him when you tell him to duck when their is a mexican robbing your house and e gets his head blown off. oh sorry i was watching TV coldn't listen either the way its wrong. why not just let everyone come in hell lets just not even be america we can just be some land with no rules anarchy all the way right?? liberals are idiots plan and simple.
AGuSTiN, They are breaking the law !! This has nothing to do with your kid not doing his homework. Stop trying to cloud an issue that is 100% black and white.
And the crime is in the fact that they are not here legally !! Geez its that simple !! I don't care if an illegal can build new cars from mud hes still illegal and breaking the law in being here !! As for your first example of feeding your kids I double dare you to walk into the nearest Giant food or whatever the closest supermarket is fill up a basket and causualy walk out like you own the place. And when the manager and security come running up to hold you for the police you tell them that your just hungry and trying to feed your kids. See how well that goes over for you in court.
Here I'll make this as simple as I can for you guys, see if you can understand this .....
THEY ARE HERE ILLEGALY SO THAT MEANS THEY ARE BREAKING THE LAW WHICH MAKES THEM ALL CRIMINALS. Untill the system changes they should be rounded up and deported back to Mexico where they belong. They belong there because they are ILLEGALY here !!! Nothing to do with race, everything to do with the law.
Let me ask you this, should we be a country goverened by law or mob rule ?
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
Oh great, here we go again...
"You Liberal!"
"You Conservative!"
Like it's a @!#$ insult...I think this image sums up the whole "Liberal vs. Conservative" preschool argument.
'cause yes, it is nothing more that bull@!#$ immature preschool-level namecalling for political concepts that are BOTH equally flawed.
In other words...GROW THE @!#$ UP!!!!!
Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
Hey Keeper thats great I like it !!! I agree with you on the name calling thing. I don't see this as a liberal or conservative issue but an American issue and both sides need to stop bickering and come together for a solution and work together instead of pointing fingers and calling names.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
Jackalope wrote:AGuSTiN, They are breaking the law !! This has nothing to do with your kid not doing his homework. Stop trying to cloud an issue that is 100% black and white.
It is black and white because you choose it to be, Jack. That's the problem with politics and policy today. How many times do you nudge over the speed limit in a week? Would such a drastic measure as taking your car away fit the crime? The solution to your speeding would be absolute, just like your solution to immigration.
Further, you refuse to answer any of my points about the cost, the economic hardship of doing your plan, the lost education funds, etc. Point by point, go through it and justify.
Sometimes, Jack, you just have admit we've let this problem go on for too long (again there's ELEVEN MILLION OF THEM) and find a solution that's good for US. And for us, I believe that is letting them stay here, PAYING A FINE (again, answer what is wrong with that?) for their crime, and going through the proper process. And if they fail to complete the right process, toss em! No one would argue with that.
I just believe your solution is irrational and unworkable. We've already raised the debt ceiling because of the war and tax cuts. We simply CAN NOT afford to toss them, or even use uecavi's plan of just not employing them. I have YET to see a economist think either idea is a good one.
Jackalope wrote:
Let me ask you this, should we be a country goverened by law or mob rule ?
That's extreme. It's still our elected reps deciding the outcome.
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03silverecocav (Gabe) wrote:no you liberal, lets bend over and take it all...... i'm taking the fact that their illegal tell me thats a grey matter what they did...is it or is it not illegal?? and if you say its not illegal then your ted kennedy's best friend. if people liek you ran this country and thank god they didn't during the invasion of normendy you would have turned back becuase it looked to hard..your so ready to just give in and not fight for what s right and just. and listen to your own little speech^^^^ was he or was he not told to do his homework?? so the kid can't remember what his teacher told hi to do?? thats real great alot of help its going to do him when you tell him to duck when their is a mexican robbing your house and e gets his head blown off. oh sorry i was watching TV coldn't listen either the way its wrong. why not just let everyone come in hell lets just not even be america we can just be some land with no rules anarchy all the way right?? liberals are idiots plan and simple.
Thank you for proving your irrationality and marginalizing yourself.
BTW, I'm a register Republican and I have long supported Bush's immigration policy (it's why I voted for him the first time). I'm also in agreement with about half the Republicans on the matter.
I'm not liberal, you're just reaallllyy far-right.
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irrationality??......in what way? your the one that seems to think everything should bend just so its easier....lol but yes i think the more i'm aging the more right i'm leaning its kinda scaring me but thats besides the point..damnit i'm only 24 too at 30 i'm going to be hated hahaha. its still black and white though they broke the law their criminals.
love the cartoon up their, one more thing i haven't seen mentioned in here. if the mexicans are so into this leaving are borders open letting everyone come in how come if we took a trip to south mexico when we got to the border to south america you will see an extremely strick border policy with walls and mexican military?? you would think if their all about getting somewhere for a better life wouldn't they be as easy going as we are right now letting them all come in at their will?
AGuSTiN, come on man we've been thru this before. As soon as the laws change that makes them illegally here I'll not have a problem with them at all. I'm not simplifing anything they are breaking the law and need to be delt with accordng to the law.
And its not extreme as you guys keep pointing out all the thousands of illegals that protested and their voices should not be ignored. Um well yes the hell they should since they have no rights because they are not citizens why should they be listened to ?
And if you want them listened to and the law be damned then thats exactly what your asking for......a country goverened by mob rule. Law comes first and foremost and if they need to be changed then fine change them but untill that happens they need to be followed.
Cost be damned the law must be followed or we're one step closer to anarchy and mob rule.
After this whats next ? Which law should we allow to be broken without any punishment ?
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
Jackalope wrote:AGuSTiN, come on man we've been thru this before. As soon as the laws change that makes them illegally here I'll not have a problem with them at all. I'm not simplifing anything they are breaking the law and need to be delt with accordng to the law.
And its not extreme as you guys keep pointing out all the thousands of illegals that protested and their voices should not be ignored. Um well yes the hell they should since they have no rights because they are not citizens why should they be listened to ?
It would be anti-American to ignore any protesters, regardless of who or where they are on the planet. That's my firm belief, I'll leave it at that.
Jackalope wrote:
And if you want them listened to and the law be damned then thats exactly what your asking for......a country goverened by mob rule. Law comes first and foremost and if they need to be changed then fine change them but untill that happens they need to be followed.
Cost be damned the law must be followed or we're one step closer to anarchy and mob rule.
After this whats next ? Which law should we allow to be broken without any punishment ?
Let's not forget historical precedent for such activities... there's the Boston Tea Party, the fight over prohibition,
And you're STILL avoiding going through my many points.
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I've got a really great idea. Since illegals are breaking the law and we must abide by the law at any cost, this will be right up your alley. Since speeding is a very large problem in this country and is a factor in most accidents, we should also spend billions developing computer chips that we install in our cars that alert the police the minute you go over the speed limit. Then when you speed the police will track you down and take your car since you broke the law. A little extreme, but hey, YOU broke the law by speeding. No more car for you. Black and white, right?
Tristan wrote:I've got a really great idea. Since illegals are breaking the law and we must abide by the law at any cost, this will be right up your alley. Since speeding is a very large problem in this country and is a factor in most accidents, we should also spend billions developing computer chips that we install in our cars that alert the police the minute you go over the speed limit. Then when you speed the police will track you down and take your car since you broke the law. A little extreme, but hey, YOU broke the law by speeding. No more car for you. Black and white, right?
and thats where its stupid..... for one we have laws on speeding yes we also have the punishment against it and what should be done at least texas does i don't know how the rest of he states work.
lets phrase something like it really is though right?? a mass invasion from one country to another should we do anything about it or just let them stay? remember alot of mexicans still to this day believe Santa Anna when it was said will claim what is rightfully ours. when we kicked him out of here so do you want to tjust give it to them back?
your speeding anylization is way out of it but hey that would make the cops jobs more easier so i say go ahead being that i got to the track and don't street race. also even if it was in texas you can't go to jail over a speeding ticket its one of two moving violations that you can't go to jail for the other having an open container(which i think is BS and they should go) but thats not my call.
so all this undocumented aliens and unregistered aliens name is just a way to make it soft...all and all they are illegal aliens. Which makes them an invading force that needs to be dealt with.
an invading force? really? a frigan invading force? you have to be kidding me.
just to continue, invading force usually implies taking over a country. there are 11 million of them. there are 295 million of us. i dont forsee them forcefully taking over our country. you know, since they are an invading force and all.
