"May Day" immigrant protests rant - Page 4 - Politics and War Forum

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Re:
Wednesday, May 03, 2006 12:44 PM on j-body.org
when multiple insects come into your hosue do you not say my house is being invaded by bugs? or even the common phrase your invading my personal space......invading dosen't have to mean guns blazing going to war taking over, they are invading our country no matter how you look at it but i forgot you also think that illegally crossing a border is not illegal but is perfectly okay so yeah i used the wrong words to describe for you to understand.

Out of curiousity would stealing your car be considered stealing from you or would they just be borrowing it?




Re:
Wednesday, May 03, 2006 1:10 PM on j-body.org
So then Tristen I guess you've never heard of OBD III have you ? The ACLU has been fighting for years to keep such a tattle tail device out of your cars so bad anology.

AGuSTiN, sure they have the right to protest. Under the Constitution of the United States all citizens have.......... Uh Oh wait.........there seems to be a small problem here.
Oh yup here it is, The Constitution ONLY APPLIES TO US CITIZENS !! So I guess they don't actualy have the right to protest in this country. Hmm, that could pose a problem.
More of those pesky damned laws you all seem to want to be able to just do away with.

This is GREAT I love how some laws aren't fair but others are. I also love how you guys keep saying they're not criminals when by the very definition of the word thats exactly what they are !

Keep argueing WHY laws should be broken, seriously this is great entertainment!!

Look I agree the laws suck ass and need to be changed but untill they do they should not be ignored.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.



Re:
Wednesday, May 03, 2006 1:59 PM on j-body.org
Jackalope wrote:
Keep argueing WHY laws should be broken, seriously this is great entertainment!!

Look I agree the laws suck ass and need to be changed but untill they do they should not be ignored.


The real entertainment is that you constantly dodge good points ad nausem to repeat talk-show-radio mantra. Further, no one is advocating breaking the law. I think what people like myself and Tristan are saying is there are more fitting punishments for them (like...um...again..paying a fine) then shoving a stick up our own economic a$s trying to pay for your dumb plan.

What's so hard to understand about THAT?


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Re:
Wednesday, May 03, 2006 2:02 PM on j-body.org
I'm not dodgeing any good points at all ! Your seeming to not care about the whole legality of them being here.

Like I said fix the law don't break it ! I have ZERO simpathy for criminals.



Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.



Re:
Wednesday, May 03, 2006 2:05 PM on j-body.org
Where did I say I don't care about the legality? I think this whole time I'v e been very clear that I simply don't support deporting them, because as the REAL CONSERVATIVE THAT I AM, that would be HUGE WASTE OF TAX PAYER DOLLARS. They should pay us with fees.

I see, you're mad cause I'm out-conservating you. Don't be so upset!


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Re:
Wednesday, May 03, 2006 2:18 PM on j-body.org
Dude chill I'm not getting pissed this is only the internet ! Good Grief ! Look I think you need a good smack in the back of the head you JUST said what I'VE been saying all along !!! I agree with you that the laws are flawed I agree with you that to deport them all would be ultra expensive you agree with me that the law should not be broken and we both think a fix to allow them to stay LEGALLY is needed so why are you still argueing with me ?!?!?!? AHHHHH !!!! Hey are you blonde ? seriously man I have nothing against these people, none of em. The only issue I have is the law breaking part. How many times have I said it now that the law sucks and needs to be fixed ?

Do you see where I'm comeing from yet ? Fix the laws so they are not illegals and rather citizens. Stop saying the illegals should be able to stay but rather FIX the problem so they are no longer illegals !!!


Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.



Re:
Wednesday, May 03, 2006 7:25 PM on j-body.org
03silverecocav (Gabe) wrote:when multiple insects come into your hosue do you not say my house is being invaded by bugs? or even the common phrase your invading my personal space......invading dosen't have to mean guns blazing going to war taking over, they are invading our country no matter how you look at it but i forgot you also think that illegally crossing a border is not illegal but is perfectly okay so yeah i used the wrong words to describe for you to understand.

Out of curiousity would stealing your car be considered stealing from you or would they just be borrowing it?


First of all, you called them an invading FORCE. Invading force is a term reserved for armies and troops invading a country. For instance, we are an invading force in Iraq. If you used the wrong word, then fine, let's move on. I just wasn't about to let you equate them to an invading army or some nonsense.

Second of all, you are a complete moron if you think I don't think crossing the border is illegal and is perfectly okay. I didn't advocate illegal crossing. Not once have I ever done so. I did, however, say that I think it's ridiculous to make people to suffer because our government decided we could use Mexicans for cheap labor and gleefully turned a blind eye to illegal border crossing. Had the government not been so moronic, we would never be having this problem. I have also said that I deporting all of the illegals is the most ludicrous idea ever brought to the table. Make them pay the fines, take the classes, and become hard working Americans.

To Jackalope, I think I finally understand what the hell it is you've been trying to say. Correct me if I am wrong, but you for the most part agree with Agustin and myself, but think until we fix the laws and allow them to become citizens that they are criminals and need to be delt with? Just trying to get what you're saying, so please correct me if I am wrong.


Re:
Thursday, May 04, 2006 3:46 AM on j-body.org
I'm surprised no one has brought up the tax revenues that are impossible to determine due to illegal immigrants.


Agustin wrote:I'm 100% of Mexican descent. But it's not even that simple. As you all know, "Mexicans" are a recent world culture. Further back, I'm native American, from two diferent tribes..one near San Diego, one from here in Fresno, CA. I had one great-grandparent who was 100% Spanish (blonde, blue-eyed). In all, the very definition of Mexican.
BTW, even though I could get indian gaming money, I don't. I think casinos are a cancer and should stay contained to certain areas of the country, so I don't accept any money. I've never accepted any assistance ..money, job, educational...based on my heritage, period.



Heritage: something possessed as a result of one's natural situation or birth.


You were born with the rights to the jobs, money and education that you choose not to accept. Any illegal immigrant from any nation has his heritage and his rights in his home, not mine.

My dad used to say, "This is my house, and if you live in my house, you will live by my rules, you will be polite, you will speak to me properly and respectfully, and you will pull your weight. Or, you can live outside my house." When I turned 18, he started charging me rent.

So. If an immigrant wants to come here, play by our rules. Come here legally, learn our language, become acquainted with your new family and pay your rent. If an illegal immigrant that's already here and has been here for X amount of years.... They owe a little backrent.

My mother busted her ass to learn english and pass her citizenship tests. I know that it can be done legally, but it's just not.

Someone turns a profit off of illegal immigrants. Someone gets a tax break, the illegal doesn't have to pay taxes to benefit my kids education. The company that hires illegals doesn't pay taxes to gas up the school bus my kids ride. Yet, a 19 year old illegal can cross the border, have a baby, cut it's umbilical cord with a pair of fingernail clippers, almost bleed to death, get rescued by border patrol and her kid is a U.S. citizen whose education I (and of course, other taxpayers) will be paying for. Somehow, the morals my father instilled in me about pulling my own weight just became absolutely meaningless. (yes, that really happened)....(both of them).

hmm....



Re:
Thursday, May 04, 2006 5:10 AM on j-body.org
Tristan wrote:To Jackalope, I think I finally understand what the hell it is you've been trying to say. Correct me if I am wrong, but you for the most part agree with Agustin and myself, but think until we fix the laws and allow them to become citizens that they are criminals and need to be delt with? Just trying to get what you're saying, so please correct me if I am wrong.


Tristan you get a gold star for the day!! Go get yourself a cookie!! Thank you for getting it.





Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.



Re:
Thursday, May 04, 2006 7:34 AM on j-body.org
Jackalope wrote:
Tristan wrote:To Jackalope, I think I finally understand what the hell it is you've been trying to say. Correct me if I am wrong, but you for the most part agree with Agustin and myself, but think until we fix the laws and allow them to become citizens that they are criminals and need to be delt with? Just trying to get what you're saying, so please correct me if I am wrong.


Tristan you get a gold star for the day!! Go get yourself a cookie!! Thank you for getting it.


Well, if you'd stop speaking Jackalopese maybe we would of figured that out earlier.


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Re:
Thursday, May 04, 2006 8:41 AM on j-body.org
??????? What ever do you mean AGuSTiN ???????? I thought I was being quite clear
in my stance that make them legal or deal with them as the law would have us do.

I'm just glad we can all share in a nice big E-hug and be friends again. :::::::::HUG:::::::::








Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.




Re:
Thursday, May 04, 2006 5:19 PM on j-body.org
Tristan wrote:
03silverecocav (Gabe) wrote:when multiple insects come into your hosue do you not say my house is being invaded by bugs? or even the common phrase your invading my personal space......invading dosen't have to mean guns blazing going to war taking over, they are invading our country no matter how you look at it but i forgot you also think that illegally crossing a border is not illegal but is perfectly okay so yeah i used the wrong words to describe for you to understand.

Out of curiousity would stealing your car be considered stealing from you or would they just be borrowing it?


First of all, you called them an invading FORCE. Invading force is a term reserved for armies and troops invading a country. For instance, we are an invading force in Iraq. If you used the wrong word, then fine, let's move on. I just wasn't about to let you equate them to an invading army or some nonsense.

Second of all, you are a complete moron if you think I don't think crossing the border is illegal and is perfectly okay. I didn't advocate illegal crossing. Not once have I ever done so. I did, however, say that I think it's ridiculous to make people to suffer because our government decided we could use Mexicans for cheap labor and gleefully turned a blind eye to illegal border crossing. Had the government not been so moronic, we would never be having this problem. I have also said that I deporting all of the illegals is the most ludicrous idea ever brought to the table. Make them pay the fines, take the classes, and become hard working Americans.

To Jackalope, I think I finally understand what the hell it is you've been trying to say. Correct me if I am wrong, but you for the most part agree with Agustin and myself, but think until we fix the laws and allow them to become citizens that they are criminals and need to be delt with? Just trying to get what you're saying, so please correct me if I am wrong.
'


alright tristen i can compromise with that lol



Re:
Thursday, May 04, 2006 10:19 PM on j-body.org
AGuSTiN wrote:
They Call Me...Baby Gorilla wrote:which majorly messed up the drive home for alot of people who actually went to work today. .... I think they should all be either fined or jailed for protesting. What gives them the right to? They aren't even American citizens!


People protesting and making it inconvenient for you is a bad thing? Because it puts you out? These people seem to be more American than Americans!! Protesting is a HUMAN right, not an American.

Americans have lost their will to fight for themselves in government, which is why ultimately they will win this debate....because lazy Americans won't get off THEIR ass and hit the street.

Yup, that's right. Bitching in a forum about Cavaliers isn't helping you.

uecavboy wrote:
A: America doesn't NEED these illegals ( i will not call them immigrants). Our economy would not crumble. There are plenty of high school and college students who wouldn't mind doing the jobs they do to save up for college or put themselves through college. $20 an hour to do landscaping on the weekends? Inform me of what college student wouldn't take that job.


Even your examples are weak. The lawn service for my neighborhood is done during the work week. Not weekends. Kids don't mow lawns for cash anymore. I can't even get the neighborhood kids to wash any of my four cars for less than $10 a pop! It takes 15 minutes! Please.

uecavboy wrote:B: @!#$ this illegals. They feel they are owed something (citizenship) when they have done nothing but break the laws.


Really? Because according to 95% of the economist reports on the issue, they say America's economy couldn't of possibly achieved the growth it did during the last 15 years without them. So they did do something besides break laws (which is a ridiculous statement), they contributed to the economy.

http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hs=OLw&hl=en&lr=lang_en&safe=off&c2coff=1&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=economic+growth+of+illegal+immigrants&btnG=Search

Quote:


I: If your upset because we don't treat you fairly, then get out.


They were fine until they were about to be branded felons for mowing lawns, being nannies, picking our fruits and veggies and building our houses.

Quote:

They also had people on TV protesting who spoke the most broken ass english i've ever heard.


I've also heard some punk-ass English on BET and CMT.

Quote:

All you idiots did today was make yourself look like a bunch of dumb criminals


No, they looked like Americans. Like all these Americans did...


April 30, Coxey's Army. Protest march by unemployed American workers.
March 3, Women's Suffrage march. 5,000 march to support women's voting rights.

August 8, Ku Klux Klan march. 35,000 Ku Klux Klan members march to show support for the KKK.
June 17, Bonus Army. March by World War I veterans seeking advance payment of bonuses from the federal government.

August 28, March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom. March at which Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. gave his I Have a Dream speech. 250,000 march.
April 17, March Against the Vietnam War. Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) held its first anti-Vietnam War protest rally in Washington. 25,000 attend.

October 22, March on the Pentagon. Major march to protest the Vietnam War.
January 15, Jeannette Rankin brigade. Called for withdrawal of troops from Vietnam.

November 15, National Mobilization to End the War. 600,000 demonstrate against the war in Vietnam.
May 9, Kent State/Cambodia Incursion Protest. A week after the Kent State shootings, a 100,000 demonstrators converged on Washington to protest the shootings and Nixon's incursion into Cambodia.

April 24, Vietnam War Out Now rally. 500,000 call for end to Vietnam War.
May 3, May Day Protests 1971. Mass action by Vietnam anti-war militants to shut down the federal government.

October 14, National March on Washington for Lesbian and Gay Rights First march on Washington drew 100,000 gay men and lesbians to Washington, DC to demand equal civil rights for gay men and lesbians.
September 19, Solidarity Day march. AFL-CIO organized march to protest Reagan Administration labor and domestic policies. 260,000 march.

November 27, Washington Anti-Klan protest 1982.
October 11, Second National March on Washington for Lesbian and Gay Rights. The second march on Washington drew 500,000 gay men and women to protest for equal civil rights and to demand government action in the fight against AIDS.
April 25, March on Washington for Lesbian, Gay and Bi Equal Rights and Liberation. Organizers estimated 1,000,000 attended the March, but the National Park Service estimated attendance at 300,000.

October 16, Million Man March.
May 14, Million Mom March. March against gun violence.
April 25, March for Women's Lives.

October 17,Million Worker March.
January 20, Counter-inaugural protests. Demonstrations against George W. Bush's second inauguration.

September 24, September 24, 2005 anti-war protest. Anti-Iraq War protest.
October 15, Millions More Movement. March to commemorate the 10th Anniversary of the <i>Million Man March</i>.

Quote:

Fact of the mater is, high school and college students would take those jobs


Illegals do make it harder for the semi-skilled labor to get jobs. It's true. That's why the solution is further improve and streamline the immigration process, and harshly punish those that hire illegals. I would propose we regulate the stream of immigrants based on the unemployment rate.

Quote:

There are FAR FAR too many people both in history and present who have BUSTED THEIR ASSES to go through the legal process and come here legally.


That's patently false. Before the Emergency Quota Act of 1921, people were practically just let in..

From:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_States#Immigration_1790_to_1849
Between 1850 and 1930 about 5 million Germans immigrated to the United States with a peak in the years between 1881 and 1885, when a million Germans left Germany and settled mostly in the Midwest. Between 1820 and 1930, 3.5 million British (mostly Protestant) and 4.5 million Irish (mostly Catholic) entered America. Before the 1840s most Irish immigrants were Irish Presbyterians or Scotch-Irish. After 1840, the Catholics arrived in large numbers, in part because of the famines of the 1840s. .

Between 1840 and 1930, about 900,000 French Canadians left Quebec to emigrate to the United States and settled mainly in New England. Given the Quebec population at the time, this was a massive exodus. 13.6 million Americans claimed to have French ancestry in the 1980 census. A large proportion of them have ancestors who emigrated from French Canada.

The years 1910 to 1920 were the highpoint of Italian immigration to the United States. Over 2 million Italians immigrated in those years, with a total of 5.3 million immigrating between 1820 and 1980. About a third of them returned to Italy, after working an average of 5 years in the US.

About 1.5 million Swedes and Norwegians immigrated to the United States within this period, due to opportunity in America and poverty and religious oppression in united Sweden-Norway. This accounted for around 20% of the total population of the kingdom at that time. They settled mainly in the Midwest after their arrival in America; Minnesota in particular has a large proportion of people with Swedish and Norwegian ancestry. Danes, however, had comparably low immigration rates due to a better government and economy; most Danish immigrants were Mormon converts who moved to Utah.

Over 2 million Eastern Europeans, mainly Catholics, immigrated during the years of 1880 to 1924. People of Polish ancestry are the largest Eastern European ancestry group in the United States. Immigration of Eastern Orthodox ethnic groups was much lower.

From 1880 to 1924, around 2 million Jews moved to the United States, mostly seeking better opportunity in America and fleeing the pogroms of Eastern Europe. After 1933 Jews who tried to flee Nazi Germany were often denied access to the United States, highlighted by the event of the S.S. St. Louis.


CaliforniaCavalier wrote:
also, we dont have to spend any money to deport 11 million people. simply make a national broadcast that states any illegals in the country after 7 days will be shot.


That'd be dumb. Who has more guns in California, the white people or the brown people?

uecavboy wrote: road people may see it as inhumane in history books but at this point in time 70% wants them gone. And majority rules (at least in america it used to).


Link to to this 70%. I want evidence.


Did anyone actually read this post. I hope so because like it or not the man makes all valid points and a damn good argument.
But alas Ive been a member of JBO long enough to know better. Logic and reason does not thrive here.

This right here is the jewel of his post..."
Quote:

Yup, that's right. Bitching in a forum about Cavaliers isn't helping you.


Agustin I applaude you brother


Say it with me, "Its not what you know...It's what you can prove"

Re:
Thursday, May 04, 2006 10:51 PM on j-body.org
03silverecocav (Gabe) wrote:
Tristan wrote:
03silverecocav (Gabe) wrote:when multiple insects come into your hosue do you not say my house is being invaded by bugs? or even the common phrase your invading my personal space......invading dosen't have to mean guns blazing going to war taking over, they are invading our country no matter how you look at it but i forgot you also think that illegally crossing a border is not illegal but is perfectly okay so yeah i used the wrong words to describe for you to understand.

Out of curiousity would stealing your car be considered stealing from you or would they just be borrowing it?


First of all, you called them an invading FORCE. Invading force is a term reserved for armies and troops invading a country. For instance, we are an invading force in Iraq. If you used the wrong word, then fine, let's move on. I just wasn't about to let you equate them to an invading army or some nonsense.

Second of all, you are a complete moron if you think I don't think crossing the border is illegal and is perfectly okay. I didn't advocate illegal crossing. Not once have I ever done so. I did, however, say that I think it's ridiculous to make people to suffer because our government decided we could use Mexicans for cheap labor and gleefully turned a blind eye to illegal border crossing. Had the government not been so moronic, we would never be having this problem. I have also said that I deporting all of the illegals is the most ludicrous idea ever brought to the table. Make them pay the fines, take the classes, and become hard working Americans.

To Jackalope, I think I finally understand what the hell it is you've been trying to say. Correct me if I am wrong, but you for the most part agree with Agustin and myself, but think until we fix the laws and allow them to become citizens that they are criminals and need to be delt with? Just trying to get what you're saying, so please correct me if I am wrong.
'


alright tristen i can compromise with that lol


damn you gabe, you spelled my name wrong. the war is back on!! haha, it's good that we can all have a big e-hug now like jackalope said.


Re:
Friday, May 05, 2006 1:06 AM on j-body.org
http://www.ice.gov/

info on this site about the illegal alien situation.

they are going after the companies, and not just little companies.





Re:
Friday, May 05, 2006 7:16 AM on j-body.org
Well, this is my Senior Participation In Government topic which I have to give a 40 min presentation on to Graduate. I could go on and on about this but here are some fun facts.

Illegals are costin billions in tax payer dollars, its a fact. In Florida alone each taxpayer puts forth 315$ per eyar just to pay for the illegals. Thats BS, not to mention Florida is on the lower end of the spectrum of invasion between Texas and Cali. Its BS, it shouldnt be an issue, all the people protesting a F ups and retards. Also the libers who encourage it and even speak of amnesty a fools. In recent years Amnesty has been granted three times, gotta check but I believe, 1964-1980-1993, all of which crime and more money has been spent. Learn from history and eliminate the problem.

MYTHS AND HALF-TRUTHS ABOUT ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION

Culture/Society Editorial
Source: anonymous
Posted on 06/20/2001 08:25:07 PDT by sirgawain
MYTHS AND HALF-TRUTHS ABOUT ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION

VCT Web Posted 1/17/2000

MYTH: America has lots of room to double the population (The U.S. Census Bureau says that the U.S. population will double this century).

TRUTH: The open spaces one sees from an airplane are not where the 260 million new immigrants and their families will settle. They will settle in the already overcrowded urban areas of the country just like they always have. Much of America's open spaces are occupied by food production for our own people and to sustain tens of millions of people in other countries. Open spaces are also part of our national heritage of parks and wilderness. A U.S. Census spokesman recently said we shouldn't be very crowded even at twice the population because we still will have only about a fourth the density of England. This irresponsible "trick" statement averages our open spaces, much of which is farmland, parks, and otherwise uninhabitable land, into the equation. In the sections of the country where most Americans live, we are already very much as crowded as are Europeans. And do we want to live like Europeans who centuries ago destroyed most of their wild areas.



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MYTH: Americans won't do the work that illegals do.

TRUTH: Prior to 1965 when the disastrous Immigration Bill was passed, there was very little immigration. In fact, between 1925 and 1965, there was even a period of net emigration out of the United States. During this time, our grass was getting cut, our meat was being packed, our children were being watched and our houses were being cleaned. The idea that somehow we suddenly can't run a country without an unlimited supply of foreigners is absurd.

Those in favor of foreign labor are corporations who are addicted to cheap labor. They are the ones who are benefiting. But their benefit comes at the American tax payer's expense when you consider that the American tax payer is virtually subsidizing the labor costs of the greedy corporations by supplying the illegal foreign workers and their families with welfare, free education, free medical, WICs, housing assistance, etc. -- something the corporations won't do.

Americans won't allow themselves to be exploited like illegals do, but they WILL do the work that illegals do for fair compensation and benefits. If Americans did the work that illegals do at higher pay, would that benefit the consumer? You bet it would in the long run. But many Americans who do not care about America's future are consumers who favor the idea of exploiting illegal workers because it keeps commodity and service prices down in the short term.



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HALF TRUTH: illegals eventually become assimilated Americans.

TRUTH: Many do. But Most third world illegals come to the U.S. for personal economic reasons. Most do not come to cherish our democratic system. Many so called "immigration rights" groups "fan the fire" with their rhetoric which encourages immigrants to preserve their culture and language at tax payers expense. Among some of these groups, the word "assimilation" is considered xenophobic. When ultimately illegal immigrants and/or their children do become voting citizens, many vote in blocks (Mexican-American, El Salvadoran-American, Guatemalan-American, etc.), not for the good of America, but for personal economic gain usually at the expense of another group.



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HALF TRUTH: Illegal aliens are better off in the U.S. doing lousy menial jobs than they are in their own country.

TRUTH: That may be true for the Illegal aliens in the short run (and businesses that hire them), but for many "undocumented immigrants" (Mexicans make up the majority), the "American legacy of exploitation of immigrants" remains in the minds of their children for many generations to come creating resentment of America and hinders assimilation of even their American born offspring. Resentment of America has created anti-American organizations such as MECHA whose nationwide college and high school members must pledge their support to forcefully take back what they call "Aztlan," the U.S. Southwest ceded in 1846 to the U.S. in the Mexican War.



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HALF TRUTH: Illegal aliens pay taxes that benefit the economy.

TRUTH: Most illegal aliens do not receive a typical paycheck with tax deductions -- they are paid in cash and do not pay taxes. Even when they do pay taxes (only possible if they use fraudulent social security numbers or government assigned ID tax numbers), their meager income is not enough to pay for medical expenses and all the expenses for all the children they give birth to. You don't have to look at statistics -- just visit the maternal ward at the L.A. county hospital. There, illegal immigrant women are having thousands of children per year free of charge and can't afford them once they give birth, and that doesn't stop them from having even more children -- most learn how to work the system so that they receive cash assistance and food stamps.

A basic principle in economics is this: The more people that assimilate into the system the better -- if it creates a larger tax base. But here in California it hasn't. For example, the feds had to bail out the L.A. County hospital system several years ago and the county hospitals are now again headed for another crisis. The evidence shows that the net results are that illegal immigrants cost the taxpayer significantly more than they pay in taxes.



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HALF TRUTH: Illegal aliens have a good work ethics.

TRUTH: It depends on what one means by "work ethic." If it means that illegals will allow themselves to be exploited, then they have a good work ethic. If it means that a group of day laborers would be consciences in the assembly of precision built automobiles, it might get an argument. But it is irrelevant if an illegal alien has a good work ethic -- they are working illegally!



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MYTH: Illegal aliens don't affect politics because they can't vote.

TRUTH: Just by being counted in the census, illegals give political power to special groups. Many illegals fraudulently vote anyway and there is strong evidence that some key elections have been upset by illegal voters. Politicians represent the "people" even if those people are illegal aliens. Since the number of representatives in congress is fixed, any increase in population in California, for example, due to illegal immigration will require more representation for that group while taking away representation from people in other states. Most politicians that represent areas of large illegal population, vote in the interest of illegal aliens since they are the ones they represent. On the state level, it is clear that politicians like Governor Davis, California Speaker of the House Antonio Villaraigosa, California Senator Hilda Solis, California Assemblyman Gilbert A. Cedillo, etc., all want laws changed in the interest of illegal aliens.



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MYTH: illegals go to illegal unlicensed medical clinics run by unlicensed quacks because they have no other alternative and because they are afraid of being deported.

TRUTH: Illegals know that they won't be deported simply for seeking medical help -- thousands go for free medical help every day. Obviously, the thousands of illegals who give birth in our county hospitals do not seem to be worried about deportation after their free delivery. The real reason many unsophisticated Hispanic illegals don't go to "free" medical facilities is because they actually trust "curanderos" ( type of witch doctors popular in Mexico) over licensed medical doctors.



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HALF TRUTH: Illegals come to the U.S. for jobs to support their families, and wives and kids in there homeland.

TRUTH: Many do. But record numbers of those wives and kids are sneaking over the border to join their breadwinner in the U.S. But most alarming, is the record numbers of dead-beat dads that find an easy escape from their responsibilities in their homeland and in fact abandon their families. There is also strong empirical evidence that even illegal aliens who had good jobs in their homeland still want to be in the U.S. -- most of the world's people want to come to the U.S. because it is a very good place to be for many more reasons than just for a job.



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MYTH: Pete Wilson's attitude towards illegal aliens stifled trade with Mexico. Governor Davis will change that.

TRUTH: Trade from California to Mexico increased 84.5 percent between 1992 and 1997 and did more trading with Mexico than any other state including Texas - all during the central years of the Wilson administration.



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MYTH: Proposition 187 is unconstitutional because governor Davis says so.

TRUTH: Maybe 187 is unconstitutional. But it is not for the governor of California to decide that. That decision must come from the U.S. supreme court. Davis has preempted the supreme court and snubbed his nose at the voters of California by deciding on his own that 187 is unconstitutional -- contradicting a statement he made to the voters "I'm a governor, not a judge."



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MYTH: The cost of not educating undocumented children is higher than the cost of educating them.

TRUTH: This kind of statement is absurd. It assumes that disallowing illegal alien children into our schools and/or deporting them is not an option. The idea that undocumented children are being punished for the bad deeds of their parents is ludicrous. Undocumented children already have citizenship in another country that is responsible for their education. California schools have a "don't ask, don't tell" policy regarding who gets to go to school. This policy is a powerful magnet that attracts illegals to California. The costs are enormous. Undocumented children are being rewarded, not punished.

Few disagrees that if the current rate of illegal immigration continues, a school a day will have to be built to accommodate the undocumented children and citizen children of undocumented parents.



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MYTH: Record public school enrollment on a national level of 17.5 percent from 1983 to 1997, is a result of Baby Boomers.

TRUTH: Current Population Surveys (such as reported in the January 1999 Backgrounder) shows that 15.9 percent of the school-age population growth in 1997 had immigrant mothers. In California, officials say a new school each day -- or a new classroom an hour -- is needed to keep up with the growth (Since immigrants are just as likely (even more likely) than natives to go to public school, it's clear that nearly all the increase in public school enrollment over the past 15 years is due to federal immigration policy, not the Baby Boom generation.



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MYTH: Issuing California driver's licenses to illegal aliens will make our roads safer because they would be trained to drive safely and would have insurance.

TRUTH: Giving illegal aliens driver's licenses will only make enforcement of our immigrant laws more difficult -- it would make it harder to detect them. It also "throws in the towel" and sends the wrong message to illegal aliens that they can change the law by breaking the law. Society must assume that anyone who would break the law and drive without a license, would continue to break driving and other laws even if they were licensed and most would not be any safer drivers. Moreover, it is laughable to think that these illegal aliens are going to run out and buy car insurance (one of more profitable documents now being sold to illegals, are fraudulent "proof of insurance" documents).



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MYTH: Lack of academic achievement and high school dropout rates are caused by the poor economic conditions of immigrants.

TRUTH: This belief is another one of those "just accept this as truth" cliches." Poverty in itself does not cause school dropouts. This was proven in a report in Scientific American magazine (Indochinese Refugee Families and Academic Achievement, February, 1992). The article showed that many refugees from Southeast Asia with large families arrived in the U.S. with little more than the clothes on their backs and with no exposure to Western culture or knowledge of the English language. Yet their children display stunning scholastic achievement in American schools. In the U.S., the effect of poverty on education has been focused mainly on two ethnic groups, Black and Hispanics. Ironically, these groups have the most representation by their "leaders" who's livings depend on bringing high visibility to the children's penurious conditions -- instead of emphasis on the hard work it takes to succeed in academics.

But for the sake of argument, if poverty of immigrants is the cause of their lack of academic acheivement, why would the U.S. want to import poverty.



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MYTH: Since illegal alien farm workers come to the U.S. for "jobs Americans won't take," they would not present a problem if they were given temporary visas to allow them to work the fields and then return to Mexico (or other country).

TRUTH: Millions of illegal alien workers who could be doing all the farm work that "Americans won't do" are already in the U.S. Almost all illegals who come to work the fields do not make a career of low paying, hard working farm jobs. The belief that only pitiful third world laborers can be content in doing menial farm work is obviated when it is seen that almost all of these workers sooner or later "head for the city" for the better jobs.



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HALF TRUTH: Illegals are enjoying the fruit of the recent great American robust economy.

TRUTH: While many Americans are benefiting from a robust economy, government data shows that record numbers of Americans are falling into poverty in spite of overall good economic conditions -- and in spite of 35 years of record government spending on social programs. This down slide can be directly linked to illegals flooding the low scale job market -- virtually importing poverty faster than it can be irradiated. Had there not been any massive illegal immigration in the past 20 years, poverty in much of America may well have been reduced significantly.



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MYTH: Employers are solely responsible for illegal immigration because they attract illegals by providing low paying jobs.

TRUTH: Illegals are directly responsible for their illegal presence. Blaming the entire problem on employers for illegal immigration is like blaming a women for her own rape because she dressed to sexy and the rapist couldn't resist her.



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HALF TRUTH: Hispanic immigrants are family oriented and very religious catholics.

TRUTH: The vast majority of illegal entries from across our southern border are unsophisticated, poor, and uneducated, who do not necessarily hold to strong family values or the Catholic faith. This is evident by U.S. statistics showing that while unwed teenage pregnancy in the U.S. is decreasing as a whole, Latina unwed teenage pregnancy is on the rise. The illegal immigrants of today are not all the honest, hard working, American dream seekers. This is evident by record numbers of dead-beat dads who walk away from their responsibilities to their children by leaving their homeland and simply crossing the border.



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MYTH: If the U.S. pumps money into Mexico and other third world countries for the purpose of improving their economies, it will create jobs thus eliminating the need to illegally immigrate to the U.S.

TRUTH: The only way that the improvement of other countries' economies would appreciably stop illegal immigration to the U.S., is if those countries' economies were to become as strong as that of the U.S. Thousands of visa over stayers from non-third world countries like Canada, France, Israel, are also part of the illegal immigration problem and those countries have good economies. The U.S. is not the only country to which illegal immigrants seek to immigrate. Countries all over the world are experiencing illegal immigration driven by "wanting a better life." As soon as Third World countries become even only a little bit more prosperous than their neighbors, they rush to keep strangers out. Mexico, for example, does not tolerate its border violations by Guatemalans. Malaysia recently announced that in the case of repeat offenders, it will flog illegal aliens, their employers, and anyone who smuggles them into the country. In early January, 2000, over 35,000 illegal Zimbabwean workers were tossed out Of South Africa. So forget it! The U.S. should be concerned with improving its own economy and strictly enforcing its immigration laws.



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HALF TRUTH: Immigrants make good entrepreneurs.

TRUTH: The common belief that immigrants are natural entrepreneurs may have its roots in the observation of the thousands of illegal alien third world style illegal street venders now found in most large U.S. cities. This belief has been obviated by a wall street article in which recent data shows that native born Americans are more likely to be successful entrepreneurs. (Immigrant Entrepreneurs Slide From Their Top Spot, The Wall Street Journal, January 12, 1999).



And yes, I am a Republican on the issue.

Chris



http://members.cardomain.com/vertz24 1998 Z24 Convertible
Re:
Friday, May 05, 2006 7:43 AM on j-body.org
Dear God did you type all that ?




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.



Re:
Friday, May 05, 2006 7:53 AM on j-body.org
You're undder the mistruths that this is (a) a liberal problem, when really, like i've aforementioned, anyone that calles someone else a liberally or a conservative is as dumb as those that believe that liberalism or conservativism on their respective own will solve all the problems there is...

They won't. It's going to take some higherlevel thinking then black/white/shades of grey to even begin fixing the problems.

And secondly, you're assuming that assimilating into american culture can happen. it can't. Americans have no culture.


Goodbye Callisto & Skaši, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
Re:
Friday, May 05, 2006 8:21 AM on j-body.org
Chris Fontana wrote:


Good stuff, overall.

Here are some questions I have for you...

MYTH: Americans won't do the work that illegals do.

You don't see to take into the account the massive influx before this time period. How did the immigrants already here change society? You say we ran the country fine without an unlimited supply of immigrants, true, but what about the "we have enough to last us a while" theory?


HALF TRUTH: illegals eventually become assimilated Americans.


You say most, I'd add "if not all".


many vote in blocks (Mexican-American, El Salvadoran-American, Guatemalan-American, etc.), not for the good of America, but for personal economic gain usually at the expense of another group.

Like most groups of people do...

But it is irrelevant if an illegal alien has a good work ethic -- they are working illegally!

That sentence doesn't even make sense.

But most alarming, is the record numbers of dead-beat dads that find an easy escape

Do you have sources for this material?

California schools have a "don't ask, don't tell" policy regarding who gets to go to school.

This whole topic is too simplified re: educating the illegal children. There are all kinds of court rulings, etc on the topic.

Here's the over-simplied jist of the other argument... we don't bother to find the illegals, so we might as educate their kids, because we don't want people with zero education or opportunity running our streets as adults.

Bascailly, tho, it's not for good immigration debate. Educating illegal kids is a symptom to another problem, them being here in the first place. To talk about the problem of the cost of educating them is to get suckered into talking about the wrong problem.

Blaming the entire problem on employers for illegal immigration is like blaming a women for her own rape because she dressed to sexy and the rapist couldn't resist her.

What? You're comparing an enabler (the business) to a victim (a raped woman).

I think you got it backwards... blaming the employer is like blaming a rapist for raping a girl with a sexy dress... ITS NOT AN EXCUSE.

are unsophisticated, poor, and uneducated, who do not necessarily hold to strong family values or the Catholic faith. This is evident by U.S. statistics showing that while unwed teenage pregnancy in the U.S. is decreasing as a whole, Latina unwed teenage pregnancy is on the rise.

I know this might be hard for you to wrap your head around, but teenage pregnancy rates aren't remotely correlated with whether one has strong family values. This is a false conclusion.

Further, you're not even actually talking about correlation, your statement seems to be about cause and effect, which would definitely be false.


---


Re:
Friday, May 05, 2006 8:33 AM on j-body.org
AGuSTiN, The teen pregnancy bit I'm sorry to say but your incorrect on. But its not limited to any single group but rather any family who is broken. Girls from these types of back grounds are more prone to sex at earlier ages while the boys are more prone to violent behavior. Both will engage in self destructive activities about equaly. Its a proven fact that children that come from a loveing careing family do better socialy and in schools and have lower #'s or pregnancy and violent behavior.

If you doubt me just ask Dr. Phil.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.



Re:
Friday, May 05, 2006 9:13 AM on j-body.org
^^

I don't disagree Jack. But single mothers often start somewhere, and that's usually from family's that were together. It's a problem that progates itself worse, no doubt.

Ok, I'm wrong to say it wasn't correlated, but it's definitely cause and effect.


---



Re:
Friday, May 05, 2006 9:51 AM on j-body.org
I'll go along with that.





Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.



Re:
Friday, May 05, 2006 2:28 PM on j-body.org
Oh guys, I did not write that, it was just something neat I found. As for the Democrat Republican Liberal Thing, I know. KOTL, I know what your saying and now adays there is no solid party and shouldnt blame one or the other. Through my research very few (Liberal or Democrat) even support the idea of amnesty

I just wanted to post that up, it was a decent write up, of course has some low spots.



http://members.cardomain.com/vertz24 1998 Z24 Convertible
Re:
Monday, May 08, 2006 8:04 PM on j-body.org
Ah screw the evil illegals. Instead of buying them a bus ticket to get the hell out. It would be much cheaper to by a 38 cent bullet and set amn example to the rest of them potential illegals that come here border hoping and take a job that someone that is a citizen of our country could have had, onnly because some jerk off wants to pay some illegal wet back under the table to avoid taxes. Put a bullet in their freakin' heads and rid ourselves of a problem. NO OUR ECONOMY WOULD NOT SUFFER A BIT, that would mean that there would actually be enough jobs to go around almost. Less bums on the streets, less people on welfare, and so forth. Not to mention who else is f'ing tired of paying for some illegals medical benefits. Make an example of every stickin one of them, matbe then they would stop border hoping.
Re:
Monday, May 08, 2006 9:55 PM on j-body.org
George Willings wrote:Ah screw the evil illegals. Instead of buying them a bus ticket to get the hell out. It would be much cheaper to by a 38 cent bullet and set amn example to the rest of them potential illegals that come here border hoping and take a job that someone that is a citizen of our country could have had, onnly because some jerk off wants to pay some illegal wet back under the table to avoid taxes. Put a bullet in their freakin' heads and rid ourselves of a problem. NO OUR ECONOMY WOULD NOT SUFFER A BIT, that would mean that there would actually be enough jobs to go around almost. Less bums on the streets, less people on welfare, and so forth. Not to mention who else is f'ing tired of paying for some illegals medical benefits. Make an example of every stickin one of them, matbe then they would stop border hoping.


ah, someone save us from the ignorant racist moron. facts > you.


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