Haha, good to see that the WF is still going strong.
Nathaniel and I used to have some crazy arguments over global warming. It's good to see that you guys are alot more civil than we were
The sun IS getting hotter - that part is definitely true. What kind of effect this is having - it's hard to come up with any hard conclusions. There is enough geologic evidence to show that major climatic shifts have occurred throught earth's history, and that these shifts are very cyclical. I always laugh when looking at the geologic column to see the bias towards the Phanerozoic (last 545 million years). If you were to make that column proportional, seeing that 90% of the earth's history occurred in the Precambrian, you would see some crazy climatic cycles that make the last ice age look mild (google "snowball earth" and you'll see what I'm talking about). Interesting stuff.
The fact of the matter is this - there aren't many scientists out there that believe whole-heartedly that humanity isn't contributing to global warming. The problem is that we don't have enough data yet to figure out the extent of our contribution. Whichever way you look at it, we're definitely not helping the climate or our environment.
J.J. Lecznar wrote:... bring ur @!#$ over here and i wil blow what u have to hell.... ill put @!#$in 200 dollars on it...
*wipes tears from eyes*
Not quite, Borsty. The majority of ice and snow are on antarctica, and it is much larger than the north pole, which *is* all ice and mostly underwater. Most of Antarctica's glaciers are above water.
That amount of melted snow and ice from Antarctica, Greenland, and the like will definitly raise sea levels just on the sheer volume of water displacerd from land into the oceans (Antarctica definitly, Greenland mostly--the majority of the internal greenlad's ladmass is below sea level, so it might have an inland sea, but the runoff will dump into the ocean). This would offset the north polar melt. Still, at *most* from historical records, we'll see maybe a 20m rise in oceans--that being if ALL of the ice melts, and really, thost would only affect the idiots that build near the shorelines.
Even so, while we are most likely affecting things, what's going on is not entirely manmade (Washionton State's biggest polluter right now is Mt. St. Helens
). It doesn't mean we shouldn't work for symbiosis rather than thinking we're above nature, but thing that all of this is *our* fault and if we don't do something we're @!#$ is lame. Plus, even if we were @!#$, we'd only be ensuring our own extinction. That in and of itself is not too terrible of a thing.
Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
[quote=Keeper of the Light™]Even so, while we are most likely affecting things, what's going on is not entirely manmade (Washionton State's biggest polluter right now is Mt. St. Helens
). It doesn't mean we shouldn't work for symbiosis rather than thinking we're above nature, but thing that all of this is *our* fault and if we don't do something we're @!#$ is lame. Plus, even if we were @!#$, we'd only be ensuring our own extinction. That in and of itself is not too terrible of a thing.
Excellent point, Keeper.
And let's not forget that the climate is dependant on the earth maintaining it's current orbit around the sun. One little hiccup in our orbit (for whatever reason) could send us into another ice age or make the entire planet into a dessert wasteland.
.
John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
Auto
SunfireN2o( theAnGrYCnSrvTve) wrote:And you do know in the 70s they were worries about a global cooling???
Either way, who recorded these temperatures we compare todays to?? Do you really get freaked out when the temp 200 years ago was said to be 2-3 degrees cooler????
70's hell! I clearly remember watching the evening news with my parents in the early 80's and hearing that by the year 2000 we'd be in the grips of another ice age. That the only places that won't be frozen will be near the equater and that so many people will freeze to death that by the year 2010 the human race will be almost extinct.
Hey did I miss that cold front or what? And last I checked the world isn't covered in glacial ice as of the year 2000.
Sooooo that would mean the ezperts WERE WRONG! Completly 100% worng wrong wrong! And now we have everyone saying that these same experst that were 100% wrong 25+ years ago are fully backing these guys in their global warming therioes. Seems to me that these experts don't have a very good track record so why bother to listen to them at all ? As I sit here at work well above the equater and look out my windows I see 90 degrees and sunny, Not a bit of glacial ice in site. How bout you guys ? Any glacial ice where you are ? How about killer snow storms ? Any thing over 20 feet of snow would count in my book. So how many stories deep is the snow where you all are ?
These experts are all idiots !
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
Unholysavage wrote:Haha, good to see that the WF is still going strong.
Nathaniel and I used to have some crazy arguments over global warming. It's good to see that you guys are alot more civil than we were
The sun IS getting hotter - that part is definitely true. What kind of effect this is having - it's hard to come up with any hard conclusions. There is enough geologic evidence to show that major climatic shifts have occurred throught earth's history, and that these shifts are very cyclical. I always laugh when looking at the geologic column to see the bias towards the Phanerozoic (last 545 million years). If you were to make that column proportional, seeing that 90% of the earth's history occurred in the Precambrian, you would see some crazy climatic cycles that make the last ice age look mild (google "snowball earth" and you'll see what I'm talking about). Interesting stuff.
The fact of the matter is this - there aren't many scientists out there that believe whole-heartedly that humanity isn't contributing to global warming. The problem is that we don't have enough data yet to figure out the extent of our contribution. Whichever way you look at it, we're definitely not helping the climate or our environment.
lol fun times.
--------------
while i absolutely agree that the warming of the earth at our present time is largely because of geological and or solar cycles the human race IS contributing.
the pollutants that we are putting into the atmosphere as we speak create the greenhouse effect which traps heat hence causing a global warming trend. now the numbers are not known how much is needed to be in the the atmosphere to cause a noticable effect it IS known that it CAN happen or IS happening. and if it isnt effecting the global warmign currently happening it will as the levels of these pollutants rise with every year.
The biggest hole, is the illusion of invulnerability.
:::
Creative Draft Image Manipulation Forum:::
Nathaniel O'Flaherty wrote:while i absolutely agree that the warming of the earth at our present time is largely because of geological and or solar cycles the human race IS contributing.
the pollutants that we are putting into the atmosphere as we speak create the greenhouse effect which traps heat hence causing a global warming trend. now the numbers are not known how much is needed to be in the the atmosphere to cause a noticable effect it IS known that it CAN happen or IS happening. and if it isnt effecting the global warmign currently happening it will as the levels of these pollutants rise with every year.
The "greenhouse effect" is when ground-level pollutants react to sunlight and trap heat rising from the surface. This acts like a blanket overnight and the next morning the ground isn't as cold so the sunlight heats the ground faster and causes a warmer day. This is most obviously seen in California as "smog", which has improved steadily over the last 20 years. As it is something that has been quickly corrected (20 years in the history of the earth isn't even a speck on the timeline), it can't be called a "warming trend".
At some point in the earth's history there was an ice age. Are we still in the "warming trend" from a few million years ago? Could the 2 degrees average increase over the last 200 years be as insignificant as it appears? Yes. Is pollution bad? Yes, but eventually humanity will find a balance with nature or we will become extinct and all our pollution will find it's way to the bottom of the ocean. The planet will survive, with or without humans.
John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
Auto
my point was simply the human factor IS increasing the effects of what is most likely a natural cycle. how much are our pollutants speeding things up, we dont know, but they ARE.
and thats the point. who cares HOW much we are speeding it up. the fact that we are speeding it up at all is the issue.
we cant control the earths cycle, but we have no reason to help speed it up.
The biggest hole, is the illusion of invulnerability.
:::
Creative Draft Image Manipulation Forum:::
AGuSTiN wrote:What do you mean there is no proof? Then why is the scientific community so overwhelmingly in agreement on it?
Just because people believe in something doesn't make it a fact. I mean people once thought the world was flat......... and I think that's pretty much out now right?
the world isnt flat!!!!!??
there is a difference between people who had no way of knowing or understanding HOW the earth could be spherical.
The biggest hole, is the illusion of invulnerability.
:::
Creative Draft Image Manipulation Forum:::
THIS JUST IN ....... WORLD NOT FLAT ! FOUND TO BE ROUND ! EXPERTS BAFFLED AT DISCOVERY.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
They knew the world was not flat in ancient times.. Just because a few people in Europe desided to ignore that is no reason to think that ancients didn't know better. Look at the statue of "Atlas" sometime, they knew full well. Besides, from shore it is easy to see a ship come up, over the horizon.. It's a dead giveaway. You can only see 13 miles from ground level on even the most perfect day. Medieval Europe was an enigma, not the norm.
PAX
Anyone that had 5th grade science knows that the sun is getting hotter. In a very short time (about 5 billion years from now) the Sun will be a red giant, about three times as big as it is now. Then, we'll all be dead. If we don't die, then during the supernova we'll be dead.
Either way, we're dead.
End of story.
We're all going to die...in about 5 billion years.
I'm waiting for a religious fanatic to hop on the news saying "The only reason there is even global warming is because you all masturbate and have pre-marital sex!" Ah, now that would be some funny @!#$.
Anyways, to say that humans are not primarily to blame is a bit silly in my opinion (not fact - my opinion). Yes, it is a natural occurrence and would happen either way. But think of it this way - natural global warming is a normal person in a Disney World Waiting Line, natural global warming with humans into play is a handicap child in a Disney World Waiting Line (for those of you who haven't been to Disney, handicap people get to skip to the front of the line). In other words, we're fueling the fire... with full propane tanks.
Carbon Dioxide and Nitrous Oxide are both important greenhouse gases. But too much - is a very bad thing.
"Today, human activities are pumping huge amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere, resulting in an overall increase in carbon dioxide concentrations. These increased concentrations are considered the primary factor in global warming, because carbon dioxide absorbs infrared radiation. Most of the energy that escapes Earth's atmosphere comes in this form, so extra CO2 means more energy absorption and an overall increase in the planet's temperature."
"Although the amounts of NO2 being released by human activities are not as great as the amounts of CO2, nitrous oxide absorbs much more energy than CO2 (about 270 times as much). For this reason, efforts to curb greenhouse gas emissions have focused on NO2 as well. The use of large amounts of nitrogen fertilizer on crops releases nitrous oxide in great quantities, and it is also a by-product of combustion."
If the Earth gets hotter (which it seems to be) than you won't only have to worry about the possibility of our ice caps melting and seas rising - which I may add, even a small amount would be devastating to sea level / below sea level areas - but you also have to look out for the possibility of more, and possibly stronger hurricanes/cyclones/typhoons. Hurricanes are fueled by warm waters, so obviously if the Earth is getting hotter, that is a bad thing.
But then again, that's just in theory - many agree with it, but many disagree with it.
"Some scientists recognize that global warming does seem to be happening, but they disagree that it is anything to be worried about. These scientists say that the Earth is more resistant to climate changes on this scale than we think. Plants and animals will adapt to subtle shifts in weather patterns, and it is unlikely anything catastrophic will happen as a result of global warming. Slightly longer growing seasons, changes in precipitation levels and stronger weather, in their opinion, are not generally disastrous. They also argue that the economic damage caused by cutting down on the emission of greenhouse gases will be far more damaging to humans than any of the effects of global warming."
So the real question is, what's worse? Global warming itself, or the thought of global warming and the effect the "ideas / theories" will have on the planet?
The quotes above were referenced from the article over at
HowStuffWorks.com
The effect is that it will possibly bring out the extinction of the human race...
this isn't a bad thing
And hahaha--the current "flat earth" theroy and why so many subscribed to is it because the american (be is north america or south america) mindset on things is directly linked to medevial european mindsets--our history looks at that and really only that (how many schools stuudied the socio-economics of Japan and China during the 1300's and their literature, and how many of us are familiar with the chivalry and the like?). A big part of that thinking is dominated by the Viking cultures from before that.
Since the Vikings were a very northely people, they were privy to experience arctic mirages, which unlike your desert-style mirages, which bend light by a hotter temperature near the ground, these mirages work by having a hotte temperatuere above you, which can not only act as a lens (in the right conditions you can see greenland from iceland), but in many cases can make the horizon bend up as if you're inside of a bowl.
Because of this (in theory), that mentality happened to carry through folklore. It's not so much that the majority of the world thought it was flat, but a small percentage of people who's culture has a direct link to the histories of 3 continents. Hence why we still think that "columbus proved the world isn't flat" and that he "discovered america" when likely it was the chinamen hsing and ho back in about 3000BC. Even so, Leif Ericksson definitly was in Newfoundland way before Columbus.
Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
An act of pure bravery as they truely thought they would be going to their death, instead they found Newfoundland (Vineland to them).
Of course the Viking religion was so absolutely stark their view of certain death was very different from ours today. They believed even the Gods would die, killed by giants.
PAX
Yeah, but keep in mind they could kick both pirate and ninja ass with impunity
Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
Cheese (WL) wrote:Anyone that had 5th grade science knows that the sun is getting hotter. In a very short time (about 5 billion years from now) the Sun will be a red giant, about three times as big as it is now. Then, we'll all be dead. If we don't die, then during the supernova we'll be dead.
Either way, we're dead.
End of story.
We're all going to die...in about 5 billion years.
That fact used to scare the crap out of me when I was little.. Now that im older, I dont care because i'll be LONG gone...
If anyone has ever seen/heard the George Carlin show
Jammin In New York a long time ago, He gives this long speech towards the end about how humans aren't a threat to the earth and that it will just shake us off like a bad case of fleas.
Did anyone waste their time and go see Al Gores movie "global warning"?
- 2004 Cavalier - 124k, owned since new
OK I'm not going to read all the comments to find out if this has been said but, You do all know stars get their brightest before before the exsplode right?
actaully im not really sure on that, but I just remember thinking that when i read the title and 2.
1. Earth's temperature goes up and down, up and down, its been happening for Eons. Decades, hundred of years, or even thousands of years of temperature changes are realivley meaningless.
2. Global Warming exists... the scale is debateable.
3. The Earth isn't going anywhere for quite along time. However, thats not an excuse to knowingly destroy it.
WORD, THIS IS SOOOO MY SIG
The earth isn't going anywhere......WE ARE!!!!!
Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
I just can't resist.. I also couldn't shorten it.
Quote:
Whenever life gets you down Mrs. Brown
And things seem hard or tough
And people are stupid, obnoxious or daft
And you feel that you've had quite enough...
Just, remember that you standing on a planet that’s evolving
And revolving at nine hundred miles an hour
It’s orbiting at nineteen miles a second, so it’s reckoned
A sun that is the source of all our power
The sun and you and me and all the stars that we can see
Are moving at a million miles a day
In an outer spiral arm at forty thousand miles an hour
Of the galaxy we call the Milky Way
Our galaxy itself, contains a hundred billion stars
It’s a hundred thousand light years side-to-side
It bulges in the middle, sixteen thousand light years thick
But out by us it just three thousand light years wide
We're thirty thousand light years from galactic central point
We go round every two hundred million years
And our galaxy is only one of millions of billions in this amazing and
expanding universe
The universe itself keeps on expanding and expanding
In all of the directions it can whiz
As fast as it can go, the speed of light you know
Twelve million miles a minute and that’s the fastest speed there is
So remember when you’re feeling very small and insecure
How amazingly unlikely is your birth
And pray that there’s intelligent life somewhere up in space
Cause there’s bugger-all down here on Earth
Cheese (WL) wrote:Anyone that had 5th grade science knows that the sun is getting hotter. In a very short time (about 5 billion years from now) the Sun will be a red giant, about three times as big as it is now. Then, we'll all be dead. If we don't die, then during the supernova we'll be dead.
Either way, we're dead.
End of story.
We're all going to die...in about 5 billion years.
freakin sweet. my only regret is that im not around to see the end of the human race.....too bad
You'll never touch God's hand
You'll never taste God's breath
Because you'll never see the second coming
Life's too short to be focused on insanity
I've seen the ways of God
I'll take the devil any day
Hail Satan
(slayer, skeleton christ, 2006)
Keeper of the Light wrote:The earth isn't going anywhere......WE ARE!!!!!
so what your trying to say is there really is no santa?
Emor8t wrote:1. Earth's temperature goes up and down, up and down, its been happening for Eons. Decades, hundred of years, or even thousands of years of temperature changes are realivley meaningless.
Earth's climate does change, yes. It has for millions of years... but to say that thousands of years of changes to the Earth's climate is meaningless... is a bit incorrect. During the past hundred years alone, the Earth's climate has averaged an increase of about one degree Fahrenheit. That may not sound like much, but even a couple degrees climate change can drastically effect the Earth.
"
Sea level is rising. During the 20th century, sea level rose 10-20 cm (4-8 inches) due to melting glacier ice and expansion of warmer seawater. In the next 100 years, sea level may rise as much as 85 cm (33 inches). This is a threat to people living near the coast, wetlands, and coral reefs."
"
Arctic sea ice is melting. The summer thickness of Arctic icebergs is about half of what it was 50 years ago. This melting ice may someday cause changes in the world’s ocean currents."
"
Sea-surface temperatures are warming. Some animals, such as corals, cannot live in warmer seas. Over the past few decades, about a quarter of the world’s coral reefs have died."
"
Heavier rainfall causes flooding in many regions as warmer temperatures speed up the water cycle. In the last ten years, floods have caused more damage than in the previous 30 years."
"
There have been changes in where we can farm: As climates warm, some mid-latitude places, like Europe, are getting a longer growing season, while some tropical places are becoming too hot and dry to grow crops."
"
The amount of drought may be increasing. Higher temperatures lead to a high rate of evaporation and very dry conditions in some areas of the world. Researchers are not sure if drought has increased as a result of current warming."
"
Ecosystems are changing. As temperatures warm, species may migrate to cooler places or die. Species that are in particularly danger include endangered species, coral reefs, and polar animals such as penguins, polar bears and seals."
"
Severe weather events may be more common and stronger. Some researchers say that the number and strength of hurricanes, tornadoes, and other events has increased over the last 15–20 years. However, scientists are still looking into this."
So while we may not necessarily have to worry about another ice age, (obviously because the climate is increasing and not decreasing) there are other things to worry about that won't necessarily take thousands of years to accomplish.
The above quoted was referenced from
this website.
