when a spiecies are properly adapted to their enviroment (enough to sustain reproduction and life and all) they have no need to further adapt to their conditions and hence dont have anything else to adapt to.

not all of a spicies may be subjected to a new set of conditions either and hence, not all of a given species will change. see whe golapogos finches for a good example.

they came from a mainland bird but then they migrated to the galapogos they adapted a little bit, however the mainland birds didnt because they werent subjected to the new conditions that the island of galopogos provided.



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premium baby, hell yeah

<to hahaha> man from chimp? please, you're assuming that the bottom of the barrel specie was created from a highly respetable specie....

don't ever insult chimpanzees like that again! To think they they would actually sire a disgusting specie like humans! please...
<br>

Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
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The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

Dude I said common acestery was easier to believe than man from chimp... Poor little chimps, Keeper thought you were even dumber than us.. Silly guy...

I feel that we are evolving, but not in a traditional mindset relating to the word. If anything, our next evolution will not be a natural occurance. Our next evolution will allow us to deal with a completely artificial environment.

Laugh or call me a raving lunatic, I think that our next evolution will have something to do with machinery. We are almost at the limits in dealing with the flow of information. Think about the breakthroughs in nanotechnology, VR systems finally beginning to work the way they have been prophesized to. Robotics actually making leaps and bounds and what of genetic engineering?

One day, our current species is going to be regarded as primitive as we consider Neanderthal man.

Scott
<br>

Good, bad... I'm the guy with the Cavalier.
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i thinkour next real evolution will be caused by scienctist, i think we will have a computer interface implanted on ourselves for not only identification purposes but many other functions as well. of course i am hoping we are some time away from this kind of Orwellian future that i think will occure.




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premium baby, hell yeah

I will put my college edumacation here.

I think we or some type of living organism came from Mars. If you see the that planet how it is now, its not habitable. I think the Earth it self will be come the next Mars in hundreds or thousands of years time.

I don't know if this was discussed before in this 30 pages, but I was thinking about this the other day in class.
Yhea I was bored. <br>

THE POLITICALLY INCORRECT ONE.

i think our next evolution will be an apocalyptic one--in that we're stripped from all the modern-day b.s. and then see how well we survive without convienences...

Evolution in any sense is not a "forward/backward" method which people see--times and circumstance always change, and change could be something that to our senses appears to throw things back with one hell of a reverse throttle (see also: the april 1st 1997 Non-sequitur comic strip of the "Ebonics Time Machine"). That being said, the qustion is not what we need to do to become more advance, but what we need to do to survive whatever change for good or bad that will come.

Cosider if per some weird twist-of-fate that all technology was rendered useless--like say a massive apocalyptic event. What then? Many would die in said event--but throwing us "back" so hard, could many people used to moder "coonvieninces" survive? Granted, i'm very pessimistic about my specie--seeing as how i think we rank somewhere below head cheese on the specie intellegence meter, but i seriously doubt that in an insuing aftermath we would survive--and only human arrogance would never see something like that happen.

and hahaha--my comment was that i see us as beneath chimps on the evolutionary flowchart--after all, they have 25 chromasomes, we only have 23. <br>

Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

mr goodwrench

interresting enough thought, epecially seeing how strange some of the phenomenon is on mars. ie. the 5 sided pyramids all in a pentagram, or the well known "face" on mars. perhapse similar to the ruins of egypt, if you compare where our species may have come from. not to mention there are alot of other theories i have heard about mars.

but anyway red planet and all. it would be interresting to die and ask our maker just to find out that some time ago we lived a similar exsistance on mars before earth, then perhapse Keeper's apocolypse occured and we had a mass migration to earth just to receed in technology in order to avoid a similar fate and now we are getting close to yet another ragnarok.

makes you think. but then again i swear i saw something like that on a twilight zone from a decade ago.

and it would be interresting to think that all this money we are wasting with mars exploration is really us on a primal, unconsciese level trying to get home again.

ok, enough with all this unfounded theroizing, im drinking again and i cant concentrate.




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premium baby, hell yeah

Heh. *waving* Ex-Bio Major with a serious interest in Evolutionary Mechanics here. I won't bore anyone with Hardy-Wienberg (they used to be my heros!) but Evolution in its proper sense does not involve any "implants" of any kind. Evolution is something that has to be passed on to any offspring directly. We can not evolve by implanting chips in our brain.

What Keeper of the Light refers to is the Bottleneck Effect. This is one of the MAJOR causes of any macroevolution of a species. Also important is the Founder Effect, where part of the "herd" is separated from the rest.

As for my personal views on evolution, I find it interesting that we share 97% (yes, 97!) of our genetic code with an Orangutan. And what is even more interesting is, how did we get to be the ones who had a higher conciousness and built homes and cars and power plants, etc. Like everything in life... I believe our creation is one gray area. We evolved, but God gave us higher thought.

For anyone who would like some reading on this topic, try the series "Space Odyssey."

Which Space Odyssey? LOL, there are 4 books...
So what you are saying is that maybe our evolution is the work of outside intervention? It's not impossible or implausible, just takes a greater leap of imagination that 98% of the people on this ball are capable of.

What if God was a primitive interpretation of an alien presence/culture? Sounds farfetched, yeah, but this is a forum baby and I can brainstorm until the wheels fall off because there is almost no way I can be proved wrong.

Now Jess is right in the fact that one branch of specie ends and the human one begins a little further along... What gives? Did we go from swinging thru the trees being all tarzan to weilding atomic weapons with impunity? There is a missing link in there somewhere, maybe extinct, but definitely something got us from point a to point b.

Now this is going a little long on the original question of creationism or evolution, but I think that a little outside thinking can't hurt.

Scott
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Hehe, I know. I was meaning the very first one, but the story of the monolith continues through all of them. I loved that series of books. And Brave New World and 1984. <br>

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Arthor C. Clarke is a distant cousin of mine (his great Grandmother and my great great grandmother were sisters), perhaps that is why I carry the "Cretaed evolution" banner...

I do like his work, and I'd love to meet him someday, hopefully before he passes on... He's not getting any younger and I'm not getting any closer to Shri Lanka (where he lives).

jess

1984 is a great book, orwell had great forsight in my opinion.



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premium baby, hell yeah

evolution doesn't quite work along the lines on "one specie ends while the other begins", there is an adherent "grey area" where one specie subset is different than another specie subset--even though they are the same specie:

Case in point, A rottweiler and a chiuhauha are both <i>Canis Domesticus</i>, however, more than likely, they will not mate if left to their own devices--more than likely, the Rottie will see the Chiuhauha as "Gordita" and prepare to devour it. Given enough time, however, i'd be willing to be that the Chiuhauha and the rottweiler's DNA would be eventually incompatible.

In cases like this, though, take into consideration that it would be very hard to trace any specie to its true <i>Alpha Terminus</i>, because the specie that any specie "came from" is defined by an overlapping period--when the specie's DNA is incompatible with the progenitor's, thus making them a well-defined specie, and then you have the fact that in the transitional phase the "pre-specie" form had DNA that was indeed compatible with both. So you can only place <i>Alpha Terminus</i> somewhere between when the specie truly came into being, and when there was a distinct specie subset.

<br>

Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

Forensic clinical data is good enough to determine ones life or death, Just imagine what would happen if we allow hear say from witnesses who can’t describe what they saw to determine life or death decisions. I’ll let the rocks and rubble to be interpreted by a scientist. There is as of yet no evidence that a god created anything. I do believe God was created in the primitive human mind, and serves some function for coping with existence.

NOW this thread is getting somewhere... BUT, still the question remains, what created the universe, the universe before and the universe before that? Take a bong hit, relax, put your feet up, flip on Spongebob and run that through your cranial supercomputer... You'll be begging for Mork and Mindy before you're done.

Now here is another facet of the discussion. It's an agreed upon fact that 65 million years ago, a big a*s hunk o rock smashed the earth in the mother of all collisions (imagine explaining that to the insurance company!) and pretty wiped the dinosaurs offa da map. SO, here we are, at this point nothing more than little rodents hiding from the big chill. Einstein said once that "God does not play dice with the universe." (I hope he said that, anyway)

What are the odds that this massive rock was big enough to eradicate the dominant lifeform on the planet, but not massive enough to destroy the planet completely? 65 million (that's 9 zeros Louie) years ago, our species got cut a break. Wow, what a gift. And we didn't get them anything!
Now here we are, smart enough to ponder this. What does that all mean, though? Does coincidence run the universe? Are we products of a big crap game? Could there be a god, or a gang o gods loose?

It's easy to relate to fiction like 2001:A Space Odyssey because it fills in alot of gaps in the back part of our brain, the part we rarely use for purposes other than ballast. It's almost comforting to entertain the thought of a higher being or beings running the show and making evolutionary decisions for us.

Now, my final point... Now creatures evolve, daily even. You evolve or devolve to meet any environment you happen to be in. BUT, you never physically evolve. Now, with the advent of big science, that is going to change. (Personally, I have always thought that it would be the sh*t to have a functioning tail.) Now, we can "power evolve". This is a dangerous time.

Cloudy is the future, always in motion, difficult to see- that was my Yoda impersonation

Once again, long winded and droll...
Scott
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ummm...million has 6 zeroes...

and the rock that smashed into the earth was only about a mile across. that would not destroy the planet as we know it-you ewould need something about the size of, say, a good 1/10 the planet's size to do that. <br>

Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

oh well, 6 zeroes, 9 zeroes... oops
but that's my point- coincidence or intervention?

scott
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Well, a few pages ago, I asked people tro consider our moon. Too big to capture, too close to have spun off. The perfect size and distace to completely block the body of the Sun, bun not block out the corona (spelling), making for totally cool solar eclipses. The moon is huge in relation to Earth, bigger than any other moon (proportionally, when compaired to the host planet), it controls the tides, and affects life on Earth in a huge way. Again, chance happening? Doubt it. Some believe that it was an impact that knocked the moon out of the Pacific Basin (causing continental drift, other planets tectonic plates don't appear to move), and put it where it is. Then the question becomes, "Why doesn't the moon have water, or atmosphere?"... I don't know, perhaps Earth didn't when the event occured... That sure screws up the timeline then... Things that make you go hmmmmm.....

I saw that... It was either on the Discovery channel or PBS "Nova"... the scientists sat down and created a function model of how the moon may have been knocked free due to a massive impact. The models were amazing to watch. It does make you go hmmmm...

Sorry about the zeroes, folks... I blame myself for 1)posting when half asleep and 2) not proofing my post (especially in this forum)

Scott
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Good, bad... I'm the guy with the Cavalier.
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actually, ploto's moon charon s about 1/2 it's size--if i'm not mistaken.

plus, the sample of minerals from the moon makes it vastly different than earth--it's minear composition is in fact close relation to Mercury.

the theory i find best models it is that the moon formed in orbit around earth...not captured per se, but formed. <br>

Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

i dont think earth has the mass required to capture something the moons size into orbit.

now europa and jupiter, that is a differant story. but not us.

<br>



gibson's through marshall's. is there anything sweeter?

<to rocker> mass, maybe not, but the earth is the most dense planet in the soalr system--about 5.5x more dense in relation to water. Consider the fact that pulsars can be as small as the earth and have twice the gravity that the sun does. <br>

Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

I was reading an article about Jupiter (I think on JPL's site) and the planet has often been called the star that failed... it's just shy of the mass needed to begin a star (I think its called the Chandrasekhar Limit, or something). Just thought I'd pass that along...

Consider this idea... we, as a species, intellectually have the capacity to do some pretty amazing things. You could almost say we are gods ourselves and still keep a straight face.

Scott
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ok keeper

due to mass our planet lacks the gravity of others in our system is what is was getting at. the density is valid, but i was leading to gravity from mass.


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gibson's through marshall's. is there anything sweeter?