It's insurance....duh! Just run it a lot like auto insurance. - Page 2 - Politics and War Forum

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Re: It's insurance....duh! Just run it a lot like auto insurance.
Friday, July 03, 2009 6:49 PM on j-body.org
That wasn't it smiley, it just came up that way.



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- Sold my beloved J in April 2010 -

Re: It's insurance....duh! Just run it a lot like auto insurance.
Friday, July 03, 2009 7:32 PM on j-body.org
I am the one generalizing? lol. "Generalizations are what have partially kept this country back for 200+ years."


Is it a generalization to assume that highly religious people in the middle east prefer religious dictatorial rule and oppression to a free capitalistic system? I guess it depends on who's holding the reigns of power.

And why did you bring up Bush anyway? I'm not sure, but I have a feeling that posts riddled with "what ifs and what abouts" are built on a foam foundation.

And btw, what is despicable about cutting out everything but the bare essentials in life, in order to buy health insurance? It may not be yours or my ideal of the american dream, but if you have a dry place to sleep at night (1bedroom only), enough food to eat, a job, car to drive, AND health insurance,..... well, you're doing ok....better than most of the rest of the world.

We have the right to the pursuit of happiness, not right to happiness itself.

.


“Poor Al Gore. Global warming completely debunked via the very Internet you invented. Oh, oh, the irony!” -Jon Stewart
Re: It's insurance....duh! Just run it a lot like auto insurance.
Friday, July 03, 2009 7:56 PM on j-body.org
What I meant are the people who take advantage of the system by "needing help" when they have cable tv, etc etc. If you need help, then you should have the basic essentials - cable tv and fancy cell phones not being one of them.

As for telling people what they want - they need to decide for themselves, not us being there to force feed something down their throats. My point for bringing that up is that your posts are riddled with generalizations, on what the problem is, and what the solution is. I brought that up to see if you thought the same thing about a totally different topic, that is still a generalization. Hell, look at the title alone of this whole topic - insurance = auto insurance = problem solved. Because we don't need reform, we just need to get "everyone" else out.



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- Sold my beloved J in April 2010 -
Re: It's insurance....duh! Just run it a lot like auto insurance.
Friday, July 03, 2009 9:22 PM on j-body.org
how is babby formed?





Re: It's insurance....duh! Just run it a lot like auto insurance.
Saturday, July 04, 2009 12:08 AM on j-body.org
Viper98912 wrote:

So what about the people that genuinely have jobs that can't afford it, because it's not offered by their job? Screw them?

My dad once told me this analogy. Imagine all the people in this nation's heartland that don't know how to use a computer. Isn't that incredible in today's modern society?!

What about those people who have known nothing but farming because they were raised in a tight family that the only way they could survive was to strap on the boots and hit the farm at age 5. If not, everyone would starve to death or die of poverty. Because as important as our farmers are, they are sometimes some of the most poor, even though they probably work harder than many people.

I have an engineering degree with a decent paying job with good benefits. Sometimes you want to say "well, why didn't you go to college to better yourself?". But as time has gone on, not everyone goes to college, for many reasons. Family reasons, financial reasons, intelligence reasons, personal reasons, etc etc etc. You realize that there's a "job" out there for everyone, based on your beliefs, intellectual level, etc, and there's NOTHING wrong with being a CEO or being a janitor, as long as you do your job well and take pride in it.

What if that janitor can't afford health insurance? Is he any better than the CEO? Should he be left out of the health insurance pot? There's a lot of hard working americans in this country that can't genuinely afford it, but that doesn't mean they haven't tried or are less of a person than anyone else. These are the people we need to help. And yes unfortunately, there's many out there who are too lazy to do it, but it's just an assumption that has to be absorbed.


The rich keep getting richer because they keep doing whatever it was that made them rich. Ditto for the poor.
Neal boortz


"is not that I don't care, it is not my responsibility"
Re: It's insurance....duh! Just run it a lot like auto insurance.
Saturday, July 04, 2009 6:43 AM on j-body.org
When you have to pay for your own health care, you do whatever it takes to come up with the money. I had a time period where I was not eligible for coverage and needed it just in case. $500 a month is not easy to come up with when you only had $100/month of disposable income to start with. If someone really wants health care they can get it. We dont need a government program to cover insurance when its already available. If someone is really truly unable to afford it on their own (lives off of the bare needs, no unneeded spending, and no popping out 10 kids because they are a dumbass) then I can see some assistance, but to force everyone else to pay for coverage for dip@!#$s who just dont want to cut back so they can afford insurance is rediculos (sp).



Re: It's insurance....duh! Just run it a lot like auto insurance.
Saturday, July 04, 2009 9:38 AM on j-body.org
the odd thing is you guys are assuming we want a universal healthcare system, and i dont, im far from it, but you can't just say pay the cash because you have the money. allot of people don't scott white is making just as big an assumption in assuming that everyone not on health care can really afford it, but there are allot of people out there busting there butss who dont live high on the hog who just can't afford it. why. because the way the healthcare system is ran and because of insurance costs for hospitals and frivoulsa lawsuits has put the price of healthcare out of there reach.scott has the impression that everyone not on health insurance is rolling around on 24" rims with gold chains with dvd players and $200 shoes. thats the way he thinks.



ahhh good ole cobra thats great, you can purchase health insurance when your job just went belly up and your out of a job? tell me how that one works.




as for the chrones disease its me that has it not any friend.







http://www.flickr.com/photos/sndsgood/ https://www.facebook.com/#!/Square1Photography
Re: It's insurance....duh! Just run it a lot like auto insurance.
Saturday, July 04, 2009 10:01 AM on j-body.org
Without using up an entire page just to respond to the posts that have gathered in the past 24 hours, I will say this, mostly directed toward Jason and Alberto, but for all to think about:

In my last post, I offered a solution to the cost problem. Once the escalating costs are reigned in, most of the other arguments go away, because people can afford health care again. However, simply forcing coverage on a company, or giving coverage to the poor, will do nothing but keep the system in it's current direction, but burdening the tax payers, and the health insurance companies, with more and more that can't be sustained. The only real solution is to get at the root of the problem, and no one in office has written a real plan that addresses it.

I ask that you guys really read what I said in my last post. I think it addresses some of the concerns you have about my position, and if you think about the whole picture, it will work for everyone, except for those who keep doing the wrong thing (being frivolous with their money and not taking care of the important things).







Re: It's insurance....duh! Just run it a lot like auto insurance.
Saturday, July 04, 2009 6:56 PM on j-body.org
Its a mentality. My dad's doctor told him "Rick you are right on the borderline of developing type2 diabetes, you must lose a signifigant amount of weight, start exercising, and follow a new diet plan." What did dad say? "Isn't there just some pills I could take?" So, now he's on glucophage, and a cabinet full of pain pills for his knees and all sorts of other stuff. Still no exercise, still overweight, still won't eat right. "just gimme a pill" So i can pretty much count on having to take care of my dad within the next 15-20 years, because he won't change.

Rather than follow a careful plan to actually fix the causes of high health care, we just want a "pill" to make it all better. The magic government pill. A lot of you younger guys aren't thinking about this stuff though. Social security, Medicare, etc.... its not going to be around when your folks are old and feeble. We're going to have a nation where parents are moving back in with the kids....in droves. But hey, who am I to try to cram my opinions down your throat.....you just take your pill.

.


“Poor Al Gore. Global warming completely debunked via the very Internet you invented. Oh, oh, the irony!” -Jon Stewart
Re: It's insurance....duh! Just run it a lot like auto insurance.
Monday, July 06, 2009 5:22 PM on j-body.org
I don't see why people don't like to exercise, I mean, is healthy is fun, good for your mind and body. you can also exercise with your kids
I'm teaching my step daughter how to play tennis and she's only 7 years old and I think she likes it.
She likes to play at night because she gets to turn the tennis court lights on but we can not stay and play when it gets too late..
She should at least learn how to serve and hit the ball back at least once. and we play in the rain too


"is not that I don't care, it is not my responsibility"
Re: It's insurance....duh! Just run it a lot like auto insurance.
Wednesday, July 08, 2009 2:01 PM on j-body.org
quick i wasnt getting into what needs to change per say, i know it needs fixed, and i know universal health care isnt the answer. but we need a system that will help all but those that are wanting to take adavantage of the system basically. if your sick and have a condition you should still have options instead of just being told sorry go over in the corner and die were not helping you.



scott, allot of your problem is you just take a small observation and decide the entire population feels that same way. because you dad wants to be lazy you just assume that everyone else is. i have to take around 15 pills a day. well that is what im supposed to take, i usually only take about 8 or 9 because i hate taking any type of pills. but i also know when i go aday or two without them i will feel like absolute @!#$ and be miserable. things like cancer are not a mentallity, they are a disease and sorry, but if you tell me well u can just go hardcore and not take pills and die in a couple of years or you can take pills and be able to live for another 20 years guess which option im going to take. im thiniking about it, hell i spend a few hundred dollars a month on it but im an old man and dont have that young spry mind like you do.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/sndsgood/ https://www.facebook.com/#!/Square1Photography

Re: It's insurance....duh! Just run it a lot like auto insurance.
Wednesday, July 08, 2009 4:34 PM on j-body.org
sndsgood wrote:

quick i wasnt getting into what needs to change per say, i know it needs fixed, and i know universal health care isnt the answer. but we need a system that will help all but those that are wanting to take adavantage of the system basically. if your sick and have a condition you should still have options instead of just being told sorry go over in the corner and die were not helping you.

I knew you weren't getting into what needs to change, but my point was that once everything is put in place to bring the costs back down to an affordable level, not only would a lot more people be able to afford actual insurance (not HMO style, but actual insurance, where you only use it if something major happens to you), but the lower cost of regular care would be affordable, and the doctors and hospitals would also be able to do more pro-bono care for people who are really in need.






Re: It's insurance....duh! Just run it a lot like auto insurance.
Wednesday, July 08, 2009 7:43 PM on j-body.org
Hmmmm....

Aside from a very few medical exceptions, people are fat on purpose. Those that are fat and experiencing illness due to their unhealthy fatness, are that way on purpose. (spair me the exception stories please!) Even the most backwoods, sweet tea-swilling redneck knows that you get fat from eating too much and sitting around on your butt.

And gosh dang, we could all afford our pills if we spent less money on hobbies, fun times, and what not. (and I'm looking at a picture of a massively customized sunfire as I write this, although it is not an indictment against those who drive tricked out sunfires.)

How many people kept smoking cigarrettes even after they read the warning labels about cancer, heart disease etc? Fact is, they would rather enjoy their nicotine hit that give them up.

I do understand that there are people who ate nothing but broccoli, chicken breasts, and tofu....ran 5 miles per day.....yoga for an hour.....and still got cancer. Life sucks. (yes, yes, i know...until it happens to me....i know i know.)

So it is unfair to not have health care to take of ones self when illness arrives? So, it is fair then, that someone else have their wages garnished to care for me, simply because I cannot or will not care for myself.?

.


“Poor Al Gore. Global warming completely debunked via the very Internet you invented. Oh, oh, the irony!” -Jon Stewart
Re: It's insurance....duh! Just run it a lot like auto insurance.
Thursday, July 09, 2009 4:53 AM on j-body.org
ScottaWhite wrote:

Hmmmm....

Aside from a very few medical exceptions, people are fat on purpose. Those that are fat and experiencing illness due to their unhealthy fatness, are that way on purpose. (spair me the exception stories please!) Even the most backwoods, sweet tea-swilling redneck knows that you get fat from eating too much and sitting around on your butt.

And gosh dang, we could all afford our pills if we spent less money on hobbies, fun times, and what not. (and I'm looking at a picture of a massively customized sunfire as I write this, although it is not an indictment against those who drive tricked out sunfires.)

How many people kept smoking cigarrettes even after they read the warning labels about cancer, heart disease etc? Fact is, they would rather enjoy their nicotine hit that give them up.

I do understand that there are people who ate nothing but broccoli, chicken breasts, and tofu....ran 5 miles per day.....yoga for an hour.....and still got cancer. Life sucks. (yes, yes, i know...until it happens to me....i know i know.)

So it is unfair to not have health care to take of ones self when illness arrives? So, it is fair then, that someone else have their wages garnished to care for me, simply because I cannot or will not care for myself.?

.



again, your making huge assumptions. hell your making them about me. i pay all my insurance, health insurance,car insurance, house insurance, hell ive got a half million dollars worth of life inurance all paid for. i pay my bills before i do any of my hobbies. again its hard to argue with you when you just take these huge generalisations. i can point you in the direction of people who are 80-90 years old who drink and smoke everyday and are perfectly healthy. i started this portion of the debate on things like cancer and major serious illness that doesnt have anything to do with how lazy you are and your just trying to spin it and only talk about extremly lazy people who got sick do to their own lack of good judgement. heres reality scott. even if you dont want to cover them all they have to do is quit their job which will happen when they can't go to work. stay unemployed for a month or two and then go on goverment funding, and guess what, now your paying for 100% of anything they need health wise. so would you rather pay every single dime of their operation. or have them paying into insurance at a higher rate and having their operation covered by insurance. hell if you want you could even throw in a law saying the goverment will pitch in some extra cash so the ins. company doesn't lose out in the deal. because heaven forbid a company should lose money. not like any other companies out there lose money on jobs or people they take on. that is your reality.




http://www.flickr.com/photos/sndsgood/ https://www.facebook.com/#!/Square1Photography
Re: It's insurance....duh! Just run it a lot like auto insurance.
Thursday, July 09, 2009 10:47 AM on j-body.org
here's a partial quote "...all they have to do is quit their job which will happen when they can't go to work. stay unemployed for a month or two and then go on goverment funding, and guess what, now your paying for 100% of anything they need health wise." Who says we have to pay for it? Again, is it fair that my wages are garnished to pay for someone else's upkeep?

This same principle holds true for social security and medicare as well. If I work for 30 years and pay $100 per month into social security, what gives me the right to expect a $1000 social security check EVERY MONTH for the next 35+ years until I die? Why? Because I want it, that's why.

=(

This entire debate is rooted in emotions.

On one side, we have the people with jobs, paying taxes etc, who really can't see the fairness of a single dime of their tax dollars going to pay for someone else's upkeep. (upkeep that is the result in most cases, from a lifetime of poor decisions - nutrition, exercise, not applying ones self in school and getting a crappy job that pays squat w/ no health insurance.)

On the other side, we have people with jobs, some of whom pay more out in taxes than they get back in EIC....etc who really can't see the fairness of not having one's wages garnished to pay for someone else's upkeep (upkeep that is the result in most cases, from a lifetime of poor decisions - nutrition, exercise, not applying ones self in school and getting a crappy job that pays squat w/ no health insurance.)

Once again, take the exceptions to the norm and stuff them. Or better yet propose a tax reform that would allow those who believe in this socialist agenda, to check a box on their tax forms, that would withold a percentage of your gross income, redistribute your wealth to the poor unfortunate souls in need. Then, you could feel better about yourself, and get to take all the credit for the goodness in this world.

(disclaimer) aside from my initial response to sndsgood, the rest of the post (after the smiley) is a generalization and assumption. Additionally all participants in my post were over the age of 18, and no animals were harmed during its composition.
.


“Poor Al Gore. Global warming completely debunked via the very Internet you invented. Oh, oh, the irony!” -Jon Stewart
Re: It's insurance....duh! Just run it a lot like auto insurance.
Friday, July 10, 2009 5:00 AM on j-body.org
Who says we have to pay for it? Again, is it fair that my wages are garnished to pay for someone else's upkeep?



ummm goverment does.

and who said life is fair? if you think that you have a world of hurt coming to you. nothing is fair in this life.



scott. what is the percentage of the population that feels as you posted? you like to assume that the way you feel is always the norm and not the exception.



http://www.flickr.com/photos/sndsgood/ https://www.facebook.com/#!/Square1Photography
Re: It's insurance....duh! Just run it a lot like auto insurance.
Friday, July 10, 2009 7:16 AM on j-body.org
So if the government says so, then its the right thing to do, and we should just lay down and not speak up.

Life's unfair? lol Ok, then I win, get to keep my money, and no one gets to garnish anyone else's wages for free health care. How's that for fair? No? Well life's unfair.

Percentage of people that agree with me? Depends on how you pose the questions doesn't it? Here's two examples:

1) Would you be in favor of a new law, that for just pennies a day....less than a cup of coffee....would guarantee everyone access to affordable health care? We aren't exactly sure how much it costs, or who will pay for it, but for most of you, it wont cost anything.


Or

2) How do you feel about a new government run health care law, that by the way, the lawmakers themselves haven't read, that will add in excess of one trillion dollars to our nations deficit.... on top of the 11 trillion we already owe. It will have the potential to eliminate health insurance at your job while not neccessarily improve your coverage. You believe us right? After all, we were spot on about our estimates about how much medicare would cost way back when...and its doing splendidly.

,


“Poor Al Gore. Global warming completely debunked via the very Internet you invented. Oh, oh, the irony!” -Jon Stewart
Re: It's insurance....duh! Just run it a lot like auto insurance.
Friday, July 10, 2009 10:19 AM on j-body.org
as for 1 and 2 i'll take neither becaue i dont believe either will work. but if you didnt agree with option 1 or 2 either, that doesnt mean you and i both are in agreement about what's to be done about the problem.



umm yeah, the goverment is pretty much who is running the country so unless you get the goverment to make changes then yeah we pretty much do what is said. if you disagre with this then are you not paying any taxes? if you are, you obviously have laid down and given up


http://www.flickr.com/photos/sndsgood/ https://www.facebook.com/#!/Square1Photography
Re: It's insurance....duh! Just run it a lot like auto insurance.
Friday, July 10, 2009 7:53 PM on j-body.org
"if you are, you obviously have laid down and given up " Clever but impossible. I'd have to quit my job, not buy anything or go anywhere to not pay taxes. Paying one's taxes does not mean they are in agreement with government or passively taking whatever they shovel.

Fighting back through emails to congressman, joining in discussions like this one, hoarding my money and spending as little as possible....all good ways to fight the system and fight for change. If our reps started getting their phones flooded with angry voters demanding the crap stop....invoking promises to vote for whoever their opponent is.... could work.

Also, I didn't ask if you'd choose 1 or 2. I was merely pointing out that one can rally support to one's cause merely by changing the wording of the question. So do I believe that the majority of taxpayers would prefer to not have their wages garnished for welfare programs including healthcare for the non-insured? Yes I do. If you ask the question like this:

The only way to provide cheap or free healthcare for everyone is to take extra money out of your paycheck every week....yes or no.

.


“Poor Al Gore. Global warming completely debunked via the very Internet you invented. Oh, oh, the irony!” -Jon Stewart
Re: It's insurance....duh! Just run it a lot like auto insurance.
Monday, July 13, 2009 1:22 PM on j-body.org
but you and me both know that it would never be worded in that way so its kind of a moot point. but even then im sure you'd still have a good portion of the country who would feel it is their duty to help their fellow man and say yes.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/sndsgood/ https://www.facebook.com/#!/Square1Photography
Re: It's insurance....duh! Just run it a lot like auto insurance.
Monday, July 13, 2009 7:33 PM on j-body.org
That portion of the country wouldn't feel it was the right thing to do, if the entire bill was splint evenly among every taxpayer. Guy making 20k per year has to pay the same dollar amount (not percentage) as the guy making 500k.

Thats why some of these proposals have public support. Because they get someone else to pay for the good deed. (the magic 250k benchmark seems to be the cut off) Start raising taxes on everyone, and suddenly theres a noticeable drop off on how many people think the idea is swell.

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“Poor Al Gore. Global warming completely debunked via the very Internet you invented. Oh, oh, the irony!” -Jon Stewart

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