ok im starting this thread to keep my 2200 performance mods and questions here so i wont have to put in about 1000 threads about some stupid things. Ok, ive noticed adlers set up and i love it. my goal for my 2200 is 205 horse power to 211 horsepower. i know it can be done just not sure how much of a cost. im goin to need alot of help with this goal meaning im a newb at all this. so my first question on this long journey... whats the first thing i should do? i was thinking something along the lines of a new throttle body, Reason, because it will be a cheap mod. and im just starting.
so what do you all think?. please post anything and everything you think i should do, try, or just make a suggestion.
i figure id try to gather all the info into one area instead of doing many many searches. its beneficial to not only me but other ohv owners also. once again i appreciate every one of you and your knowledge and careness to share your knowledge. once again thank you all and post anything 2200 performance related here. and if any of you have a question for me post away, cause ill be checking this one thread many many many times a day.
Truly,
Shaune Drake
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This is probly everything you can do to make a kick ass drivetrain for the 2.2/2200 (some mods dont apply to some engines)
Front/rear trans mounts (supporting mod)
Upper/lower engine mounts (Suppoting mod)
Header (only for N/A)
Full exhaust (approx 2.5 would be good)
High flow catalitic converter
Intake (Again for N/A)
Larger throttle body (size depends on application)
comp cams 1.6 ratio roller rockers
eagle forged h-beam rods
Forged pistons
Clutch of some sort (Supporting mod)
Power adder of some sort (Nitrous, Turbo, Etc.)
performance camshaft (up to you what grind)
lightweight crank pulley
high flow in tank fuel pump
bigger injectors (size depends on application)
some way to dial fuel pressure (FMU)
some sort of fuel/ignition tuning system (S-AFC)
ignition components (MSD)
set of good plugs and wires for your application (Platnum, colder, etc)
then anything trans wise (Differential, Lsd, Different gear sets, etc)
lightweight rims with tires of choice (M/T, Hoosier, Nitto, Etc.)
some breaks to haul you to a stop
and by this point you probly need to remove the limiter
All i can think of right now
Hi Shaun, I'm glad to see you have good ambitions to reach 200+ WHP (I'm assuming WHP cause that's where it really matters).
I'm advice to you is look for cheap prices on good quality, not cheap prices on cheap quality. Example: If your looking for a suspension setup and you see springs for $50 with a no name company and you see the going rate with a good company is $150, your buying crap and no good quality. Use your money wisely and do thing right the first time.
Now onto performance, you definitely need about every bolt on available, Full exhaust upgrade, Intake, Throttle Body, Pulley upgrade, etc.
It depends on what route you want to go. If you want to go all all motor, you have to WORK your motor inside out. The magic in the 2200 motor is in the head and camshaft. Check out J-body performance or Patriot Performance for their upgraded performance heads. Also, JBP has a camshaft available for the 2200 motor.
The bottom end, you definitely have to replace the Pistons & Rods and up the compression. Your stock compression is 9:1, I bet you can up it to 10.5:1 or maybe 11:1 compression. I think with these types of upgrades on your motor, your car should approach the 200 HP mark or possibly be over.
Now, if you want to go boost (preferably turbo on the 2200) you don't have to do too much to reach this goal. I think your biggest investment into boosting your 2200 is to replace your head with a performance head (like listed above) and camshaft designed for a boosted application. Depending on how much PSI you decide to run will depend on how much power you will actually put down.
Boost is a very expensive thing to do and also an expensive thing to maintain. If you do decide to boost, make sure you know what your doing and you do all the research you can on the subject. Most importantly, ASK QUESTIONS! If you don't understand something, it's better to ask than assume. Not asking could result in $ in fixing a problem or just allot of damage.
If you decide to go either route, fuel & spark will become an issue. There is no set fuel amount you need and no set spark amount or timing that is needed so that will all depend on tuning. Upgrading your coils will help you though (check MSD). For adjust your fuel, you can check out products like Apexi SAFC-2 or Greddy E-Manage (there might be others but just don't come to mind right now). Do not neglect this area because not enough fuel can result in detonation or too much fuel can result in just terrible gas mileage and a huge decrease in performance no matter which route you go.
I hope you realize this will take alot of patience, headaches, tuning and even alot more money (thousands) to achieve this goal.
If there is anything that I have said that you do not understand, feel free to ask...I'm here to help. If you have anymore questions you can also post in here.
Here are some links to companies I just suggested or companies that have parts I listed:
www.jbodyperformance.com
www.patriot-performance.com
www.apexi-usa.com
www.greddy.com
www.msdignition.com
www.gravanatuning.com
www.definedparts.com
www.rsmracing.com
Good luck to you.
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
well said mr chocolate lol. the 2200 can be a hard motor to get power out of without boost. but at least you have more options than us 95-97 2.2 OHV guys. best of luck to you in your endeavors.
I was a retard, and now I'm permanently banned.
Thank you Senior Spotabee
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
NJHK (Sexual Chocolate) wrote:Thank you Senior Spotabee
just giving credit to the ecotec know it all... stick to your eco's and I'll handle the pushrod stuff... lol j/k
I was a retard, and now I'm permanently banned.
depends on how you want to do it?
the easy way.... turbo system and blow 10 psi of boost. bam 200hp+
component break down the way I'm going to do it:
-motor mounts & tranny mounts
-B&M short throw shifter or shift plus
-intake (i'll justify this lower in the list)
-get your head ported and polished and build your entire valvetrain (crane roller rockers, chromoly pushrods, SI stainless steel valves, springs... lifters should be ok)
-MSD ignition blaster coils
-iridium plugs
-plug wires
-turbo manifold
-front mount intercooler
-larger injectors
-eManage
-wideband o2 sensor
-EGT gauge
-Boost/vac gauge
-fuel pressure gauge
-oil pressure gauge
-oil temp gauge (optional for oil cooler)
-T3 super 60 turbo
-external wastegate kit
-blow off valve kit
-2.5" piping for intercooler and charge piping
-3" piping for downpipe and exhaust
-smaller diam pipe for external wastegate dump tube
-numerouse fittings and lines for gauge hook ups (usually included with gauge)
-lap top to tune emanage
modify the turbo manifold for the external wastegate. install the turbo, weld up the downpipe, a bung for the wideband o2 sensor, wire up the emanage, use the wideband sensor and EGT gauges to help tune your fuel setup for optimum running condition and power. weld up the 3" pipe for your exhaust, and have a tube just dump the wastegate somewhere under the car. Butcher your old intake for the induction to the turbo.
with the ported top end, and 10psi you should be making close to 220whp easy. A guy named Alex did this on the stock bottom end of his OHV for a while. The tuning is key tho so make sure everything's kosher before increasing boost.
why do a T3 super 60 plus an external wastegate kit when you can do an externally wastegated T3 with a better a/r for 10 psi. that T3 Super 60 works great for about 6 psi. But running 10 psi on a daily driver, it's nice to have a turbo that takes a little longer to spool up so you can stay out of boost easier when you don't want it.
I was a retard, and now I'm permanently banned.
Shadow Of Obivion wrote:This is probly everything you can do to make a kick ass drivetrain for the 2.2/2200 (some mods dont apply to some engines)
Front/rear trans mounts (supporting mod)
Upper/lower engine mounts (Suppoting mod)
Header (only for N/A)
Full exhaust (approx 2.5 would be good)
High flow catalitic converter
Intake (Again for N/A)
Larger throttle body (size depends on application)
comp cams 1.6 ratio roller rockers
eagle forged h-beam rods
Forged pistons
Clutch of some sort (Supporting mod)
Power adder of some sort (Nitrous, Turbo, Etc.)
performance camshaft (up to you what grind)
lightweight crank pulley
high flow in tank fuel pump
bigger injectors (size depends on application)
some way to dial fuel pressure (FMU)
some sort of fuel/ignition tuning system (S-AFC)
ignition components (MSD)
set of good plugs and wires for your application (Platnum, colder, etc)
then anything trans wise (Differential, Lsd, Different gear sets, etc)
lightweight rims with tires of choice (M/T, Hoosier, Nitto, Etc.)
some breaks to haul you to a stop
and by this point you probly need to remove the limiter
All i can think of right now
header can be applied to more than N/A such as a supercharger....
externally wastegated T3
how much would something like that run me? also it the tb a good idea to go ahead and do or not?
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I am pumped that you made this thread. I am in the same situation as you and have been reading all of your threads to get my answers. One thing i would like to know is if it would be cheaper to try and reach the 210hp goal with nitrous, turbo, or NA.
Quote:
Spotabee Racing
Today 4:26 AM
why do a T3 super 60 plus an external wastegate kit when you can do an externally wastegated T3 with a better a/r for 10 psi. that T3 Super 60 works great for about 6 psi. But running 10 psi on a daily driver, it's nice to have a turbo that takes a little longer to spool up so you can stay out of boost easier when you don't want it.
the super 60s come external gate only too I'm pretty sure.
You've seen my compressor match thread, and the turbo would be happy at 6psi yes, but also awesome all the way up to 15psi, and probably OK boosting at 20psi (altho that would be a bit out of the efficiency range of the compressor)
I forgot to mention a boost controller would be a good idea... that way when you dont want the lack of gas mileage, just turn down the boost. I'd prefer electronic, but not a lot of people go for the $$ involved.
Quote:
Shaune Drake
Today 8:33 AM
externally wastegated T3
how much would something like that run me? also it the tb a good idea to go ahead and do or not?
you can find them on ebay for about $450, brand new they go for like $800 or so.
I can't believe I missed the throttle body... if you go boost (turbo or supercharger) get the largest throttle body you can find. RSM makes one for 62mm. If you go N/A, the 56mm tbody is better.
Quote:
I can't believe I missed the throttle body... if you go boost (turbo or supercharger) get the largest throttle body you can find. RSM makes one for 62mm. If you go N/A, the 56mm tbody is better.
no, 4 throttles about 45mm in diameter, one for each intake runner, is better
Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
Spotabee Racing wrote:why do a T3 super 60 plus an external wastegate kit when you can do an externally wastegated T3 with a better a/r for 10 psi. that T3 Super 60 works great for about 6 psi. But running 10 psi on a daily driver, it's nice to have a turbo that takes a little longer to spool up so you can stay out of boost easier when you don't want it.
Not to be a dick but the t3 super 60 is a good turbo for the 2200, And well over 6 psi. Just take a ride in Cavattacks car and you would not say that, I've seen the guy hit 10psi with no effort at all.
But I do see your point about the daily driver and staying out of boost till ya want it.
Quote:
no, 4 throttles about 45mm in diameter, one for each intake runner, is better
SHUT up and do your job!
you bum lol cruisin the org from circle dodge
You will NEVER get 200hp N/A with this motor
Joe Almeida had this setup:
12:1 CR pistons
WICKED cam
Full Race Intake Manny
Full Race Header
Stand Alone Engine Management
Plus many other things, but those are the most critical parts of making more HP
And he only got 250whp with a 100+ shot of Direct port nitrous
I on the other hand am hoping to have 350+whp when I am done
and low fire with all the work youve been doing you deserve it. i hope you hit 350+
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back to my performance thread: thanks so much OHV notec for your input i just moved it here so i can keep up with it.
OHV notec wrote:I agree with Jersey Jay above.
IMO, if you want a good NA street setup, leave the block alone. Forget the rods, forget the pistons (the cam is part of the valvetrain, so I'll consider it part of the head).
Read up, buy the standard abrasives porting kit (I'm sure event would love to tell you all about it 
), and port your head. Take it to a machine shop and have it milled down to achieve a solid 10:1 CR (I'm not sure how much would have to be taken off, but they could tell you). Go to crower.com and look up part #70399-1, these are stock spec pushrods (assuming the 2.2L and 2200 are the same, otherwise, just have one of yours measured). Give their company a call, and ask them for those pushrods, but with less length (however much you took off the head should be close enough, although I know different geometrical equations are needed to obtain the perfect value). Those should be less than $100. If you want, you could have your ported head flowbenched, and then send the numbers to jbodyperformance, and they can custom-grind you a great cam to meet what requirements you set. Or, if you don't want to pay for the flowbench, just get their stage II cam and you should be okay. You should also get some stiffer springs (the JBP springs may require you to use their expensive retainers and locks though, I don't exactly remember. Maybe try somewhere else for those)
I'd feel confident saying that with these mods, motor mounts, and some good breathing bolt-ons, you shouldn't have trouble beating up a DOHC Jbody, and it shouldn't cost you more than $1000. Of course, you'll also have to replace your head gasket, lifters, and other misc items, but nothing major. Oh, you might want to add a MSD DIS-II ignition to go with that higher compression as well.
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yo phlatcav its me... Dark Drake from jbok. didnt know if you knew that or not.
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LowFire wrote:You will NEVER get 200hp N/A with this motor
Joe Almeida had this setup:
12:1 CR pistons
WICKED cam
Full Race Intake Manny
Full Race Header
Stand Alone Engine Management
Plus many other things, but those are the most critical parts of making more HP
And he only got 250whp with a 100+ shot of Direct port nitrous
I on the other hand am hoping to have 350+whp when I am done
hopefully i'll be able to control my automotive ADD long enough to prove you wrong Lowfire... Sorry, but if scruf made 177whp at 10:1 (somewhere around there) on an auto, than something was drastically wrong with either the tune or setup of Joe's engine where it couldn't make another 23 hp with 2 points higher compression and a wilder cam.
There are 1.8 and 2.0 8v VW motors that make over 200 all motor, the valvetrain of the OHV is not that much of a restiction where it can't produce similar numbers. I'm not saying its easy, but it can be done. Nothing against Joe at all but there has to be something off with either the cam profile, the injection, or maybe even the intake manifold if that setup couldn't make 200 hp.
But anyway, since this is Shaun's thread, it really depends on him. OHV Notec raises an interesting point, but i'm not sure if the head could be milled down enough to attain 10:1 without a change in pistons, without risking valve/piston interference or other issues. Remember also that on the stock cam, the cam timing would be advanced by milling the head that much also and a custom cam would be required to get the timing right. If it COULD work, then it would definitely be the way to go if you're only looking to make it fast enough to spank a mildly modded twin cam J. If you want to be seriously fast on the 1/4 track than you'd probably have to tear further into the motor as well as some ecu tuning (increased rev limiter at least, as with more airflow and compression and a toughter valvetrain the OHV would then be able to extend the powerband higher in the rev scale... and eliminate the twin cam's primary advantage of an extra 500 rpm in each gear).
The other thing that hasn't been brought up is nitrous. If you run a 35-50 hp wet shot (nitous and fuel) with a colder heat range COPPER (i've heard platinum/iridium are bad news with the giggle gas) plug, gapped about .004" tighter than stock, and running premium fuel, should be relatively safe and definitely be enough power to run with a DOHC. And initial nitrous installation is cheap, about $500.
Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
hah, coulda used this info
4yrs ago...
but nahh I've found everything I needed to know out already! I think
N2O + Bolt-ons
= 220Hp/
250Tq
Coming Soon:HpTunersPro, EagleConnectingRods, WiescoPistons, 13sec2200
O and by the way, did any of these J's Joe and Scruf do anything with the crankshaft? I'm sure Joe did because he had a nicely nicely built ohv.
Also wanted to say that you have to replace your bearings to be as safe as possible with that power. Though many want to play on the edge and not screw with the bottom end I figure that's why we aren't seeing huge gains. There are so many steps un-touched on a ohv motor and the best way to unlock some knowledge is to visit the local speed/engine shop, not the ricer shop, the shop with 50yr old men sitting around covered in oil! Get the talking and watch some nice tricks and answers come soaring in.
N2O + Bolt-ons
= 220Hp/
250Tq
Coming Soon:HpTunersPro, EagleConnectingRods, WiescoPistons, 13sec2200
Bballjamal (Cav-AtL) wrote:O and by the way, did any of these J's Joe and Scruf do anything with the crankshaft? I'm sure Joe did because he had a nicely nicely built ohv.
Also wanted to say that you have to replace your bearings to be as safe as possible with that power. Though many want to play on the edge and not screw with the bottom end I figure that's why we aren't seeing huge gains. There are so many steps un-touched on a ohv motor and the best way to unlock some knowledge is to visit the local speed/engine shop, not the ricer shop, the shop with 50yr old men sitting around covered in oil! Get the talking and watch some nice tricks and answers come soaring in.
^^^ tis a good idea. but what is really the fatal flaw this motor. i know for the older 2.2 the injectors are a big hold back, but the new one is there a design that holds back its power potential? like piston shape, combustion chamber shape?
the T3 super 60 is a great turbo for 6 psi. but for every single turbo setup I have worked on, internally wastegated turbos are usually eventually upgraded with an external wastegated unit. plus like i said, how about those days when you don't want 10 psi? how about when you wanna drive casually to save your treads and stay out of it while being able to shift somewhere above 2500? just a thoght.
I was a retard, and now I'm permanently banned.
