I have the opportunity to get a new block custom made at shop that I made contact this weekend. I was looking at the options they had and I noticed an option for a aluminum block. Now I know that this option will be lighter and most likely sound a bit louder than the stock 2.4L engine block (given the qualities of aluminum), but I am curious about the strength ratio of the two materials. If I am not mistaken my buddy's Nissan s420 engine block is entirely made of aluminum so I realize it is possible, but does anyone on here have any experience with this? Thanks!
ShiftyCav wrote:thats probably the dumbest thing i have ever heard. you should take that serpentine belt and wrap it around your neck.
Well my first issue that arises in my head would be wear issues. Aluminum is a hell of a lot softer than your "iron duke" "wow I'm old"... You might be able to get the whole block hard-coated, but the strength will still be less. Surface will be hard as hell though. Also the aluminum block will obviously have better thermal conductivity than the cast iron block. Which is good, most of the time.
From cheap to expensive grades of material....
Cast iron depending on grade:
Tensile Strength: 22-50 KPSI
Shear Strength: 44-75 KPSI
Brinel Hardness: 156-262 Hb
Aluminum depending on grade:
Tensile Strength: 8-60 KPSI
Shear Strength: 14-40 KPSI
Brinel Hardness: 30-95 Hb
That is no way a complete brake down of the general mechanical properties for each material.
PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO
you don know that your heads aluminum right. having an aluminum block with high hp nums would solve alot of expansion issuse that people would have with to differnt metals for an engine.
"
boobs now with Riboflabin"
...JUST THINK... NO MORE HEAD GASKET PROBLEMS!
the main reason for our engines having head gasket problems, is the cast iron block and the aluminum head. the 2 materials expand at different rates and grind the hell out of the gasket if you dont let the engine go through full heat cycles.
and to the iron duke... age has noting to do with it. im 20 and i know about the duke, my girlfriends dad has one in his tempest.
Injection is nice but id rather be BLOWN!
appearently not enough about the Iron Duke... that was the 2.5L 4TEC that was found in the late 80's Chevy 4 doors. I had one in my Celebrity.
MRMEANR Racing wrote:appearently not enough about the Iron Duke... that was the 2.5L 4TEC that was found in the late 80's Chevy 4 doors. I had one in my Celebrity.
Yeah I know, just first thing that popped in my head, about cast iron block 4 cylinders...
PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO
i'd be really surprised if they could custom make a one-off aluminum block for you for any reasonable amount of money.
beyond that, strength is all dependent on how they cast it.... if all they do is cast an exact replica of the iron block in aluminum, than it will most likely be weaker because the shapes and design of the iron block were designed with the knowledge it would be cast iron.
On the other hand, the eco is all aluminum and the block is the strongest of any 4 cylinder GM has ever made.
Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
you guys realize the eco motor is all aluminum ? and full dress they weigh about 300lbs
what kinda cost did they say for the block ? and are they gonna use cylinder liners ?
if they are gonna do a 2.4 have them set it up for the 2.3 oiling system
forgot , as far as strength goes
it depends on the grade they use , what other materials they blend with it
and how they make it
but aluminum can be just as strong or stronger than the production blocks
but with the 2.4 oiling system , if you get that dreaded spun rod bearing , then the window the rod creates in the block will be twice as big
Scarab (Jersey Jay 1.8T) wrote:
On the other hand, the eco is all aluminum and the block is the strongest of any 4 cylinder GM has ever made.
That is because GM didnt make it
...
the walls of the aluminum block might have to be thicker than the walls of the cast iron block, because the strength of the iron over the aluminum. i dont know if i really see any point in all of this though.
you might be able to run a .5 point of cimpression more than ith the iron block, and maybe loose like 100 lbs. now i know 100 pounds is alot, but theres alot more you can do weight reduction wise before having to consider the block as a big source of weight.
Injection is nice but id rather be BLOWN!
Well, the shops normal price for this job is around 2300 to 2400, but I have a contact there that is really dropping the price for me because I've helped him out with computer issues before. He said he could get my block scanned, water cut into the aluminum block, and finished product for about 450-500 (depending if if he could talk his manager into it). I didn't realize my friend was even working for the company, and I am taking extreme advantage of this as soon as possible as he can also get me a really great deal on a roll cage as well. But anyways, I was also curious about the cracking issue with aluminum blocks? I know that Aluminum cracks under high heat easier than the iron, but how much heat would it take?
ShiftyCav wrote:thats probably the dumbest thing i have ever heard. you should take that serpentine belt and wrap it around your neck.
ive yet to see anything like a crack happen from a well made block of any kind
only time the aluminum is gonna come apart , is either a to thin of casting , or when something else brakes , and causing the block to fail
heads usually crack because of the exhaust temp and the lack of material inbetween the valves
Yeah, white goose brought up a good point about increasing the thickness of the walls a slight amount to compensate for the aluminum. I figured though that with the price of this block, it would be beat my future plan of taking getting a junker LD9 and rebuilding that as my local junkyard wants 650 for one alone. Thanks and I will get the aluminum grade specs as well as the exact process they are using for more feedback.
ShiftyCav wrote:thats probably the dumbest thing i have ever heard. you should take that serpentine belt and wrap it around your neck.
well, for one if you were getting a custom block made, i would just wonder WHY you'd go with stock specs? change it around, make it bigger in displacement and stronger....
and yes the aluminum will be fine depending on how its cast.
_______________________
** Flat Broke Racing Inc.**
If it helps any I work at a heat treating shop, basicly what we do is harden (or soften) different materials, we can harden aluminum but I'm not too sure how hard is too hard. I am in sudbury ontario. as far as i know there should be a few shops all over that do this type of work. if your interested i'll look into it for you. just send me a message
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Hell at that price why not have a couple made if you could lol.
PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO
Manitoba Motorsports- Lol yeah that goes without saying. I was planning on that already, but since the question got raised about the strength of the inner linings, I'm going to have research some more about the stock specs being changed around and the numbers I need for it to function fine.
SunfireGTguy2120- I am calling my friend tomorrow to get the grade of aluminum and what they are blending in as well as a run down of their process. Once I find out about it, I'll send you a line about it. Thanks man.
-MD- LD9 - Yeah honestly this is an amazing opportunity costwise, but i also need to be careful as to I don't want to push my friends luck with his company. He's getting me a killer deal on the block, a new exhaust setup, and the roll cage. And I don't really want to get him fired for going too far. But if after this is all done, and he still offers me the price, I just may have that done, and offer a few on the JBO. Who knows? I'm heading up north this weekend to get the exhaust and roll cage, and then most likely I'll know.
Keep you guys posted... and if any other advice is offered...well that's awesome! Thanks.
ShiftyCav wrote:thats probably the dumbest thing i have ever heard. you should take that serpentine belt and wrap it around your neck.
So this shop is going to make a mold for this block and only get 1 made?
Am I the only one who says 2400$ for a custom alum block is a little to cheap of a price?
My cousin is a designing engineer at Nemac (Ford) engine casting in Windsor Ontario. I brought this subject up to him and he said "if this guy has the resources of scanning the block like he says, than he may have the resources of SLA style aluminum spray forming. But the chances of having a machine like that in a small shop compared to Nemac, are nill. Those are million and above dollar machines." My thought is that this guy may be making him an engine block from a raw billet of alumnum. That would alos be huge bucks for machining. Not sure about this one, but all to him.
Time to get it going again.....
Karo (Car Customs) wrote:So this shop is going to make a mold for this block and only get 1 made?
Am I the only one who says 2400$ for a custom alum block is a little to cheap of a price?
'
nope, i frankly think the shop is
ing the hell out of him... considering you can rarely get a custom crank made for that price, and a block is vastly more complex and requires a lot more heavy/sophisticated machinery... i highly doubt this shop is for real...
Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
So what is the going price for something like this? I'm going up to visit the shop this weekend, and pick up my roll cage, but I'll be honest when I say that I'm not experienced in the pricing for a job like the block job that was mentioned. You guys have raised quite a few good points, and I'm definately going to look into this alot deeper before I even consider it any more seriously. It was only an idea like I had said. Could you help me out with a decent list of examination points that I'll need to cover when I go to check this out? I know price, aluminum grade, and metal cutting techniques, but anything else? Thanks a ton. It does seem like almost too good of a deal, but I just want to make sure I don't get screwed. Thanks again everyone.
ShiftyCav wrote:thats probably the dumbest thing i have ever heard. you should take that serpentine belt and wrap it around your neck.
ooooooo.... prepare yourselves for this one but I think I have to admit that I could be wrong on this one... I just looked up the cost of a Dart race block for a honda B-series and they're only $2019.95.... however, these are also a block thats been mass produced for quite some time and not a one-off... it would be doubtful that they'd sell more than half a dozen of them whereas i'm sure dart has sold at least a few thousand... which would bring the price up substantially, but maybe not in the stratospheric range i thought it would be in...
So while i'm still skeptical, i do concede its not too incredibly far out....
Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
One quick question though....when you say molds for this, what exactly does that entail of....because I think I know what molds you are talking about. I know the normal molding process for blocks, but what I believe the shops procedure was to tear the engine out, scan the block with some computer program, and then use a water high pressure cutter to cut the block out of the solid block of aluminum. I could be mistaken, but does that sound like a far out procedure? If that is a legit procedure, then could that be the reason of a lower cost? Or could that procedure never be used on the blocks of our larger cars, because I have seen that technique used on smaller custom shops that dealt with motorcycles instead of automobiles. I am going to definately take notes when I visit this weekend and I get back on and post when I'm back in town. Again I'm thankful for all the advice.
ShiftyCav wrote:thats probably the dumbest thing i have ever heard. you should take that serpentine belt and wrap it around your neck.
