I was wondering something, why nobody is running an eco with the 2.4 Ecm? Being that the ecm is tuneable with Hp tuner, how come nobody just swap the Eco and tune it? Is the reluctor ring that different on the Eco? Even the LN2 ecm should be able to run it. Couldn't you just use the Eco file and put it on a 2.4/2.2 Ecm?
Same thing with rewiring the engine bay. I never played with an Eco YET but at most you should only have to make some wire longer for the eco. Is there more sensors on the Eco?
Thanks
Gilles
2.3 Ho
This has always bothered me as well. I'm pretty sure the L61 uses a 6x reluctor wheel, just like the LD9 has. The only difference might be the sync notch offset (but I doubt it). I also doubt the ECO file would work with the LD9 PCM, but you should be able to alter an LD9 tune to run the ECO just fine. That would help the 03+ turbo ECO owners looking for a speed density solution without going to a standalone. As far as I'm aware, with the exception of the ICM, BCM and maybe the knock sensor, the ECO should have the same sensors as the 00-02 LD9.
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"Youth in Asia"...I don't see anything wrong with that.
With no cam sensor you're either going to need to determine compatibility of Eco ICM with LD9 / LN2 pcm, use an aftermarket cam synch signal generator, or run n batch mode. Comm's are different protocol in different years, i.e. CAN bus does not communicate with older VPW systems, which means some year pcm's won't communicate with other year bcm, instrument panel, and airbag control modules. If offset of timing ring on crank is different then spark values will be advanced or retarded by offset value, providing offset cannot be adjusted. Knock sensors are easily changed.
My *guesses* are that the earlier pcm will control the Eco ignition module and will read the Eco module generated cam signal. About 2 years ago I was thinking about replacing my LN2 in my 93 with an Eco and I planned to use a Saturn ignition module with the bank fire OBDI ecm that's in the car now. As far as the ecm is concerned, a 4 cyl is a 4 cyl.
-->Slow
It's been done. Twistec Performance ran the eco swapped vert they did off a 2.4 harness/ecu. It also backfired frequently, and never quite ran well
I really see no reason to do this either. The time and work put in to wire the 2.4 or 2200 ECU (which the ECU's are the same ebtween 2.4 and 2200) to a Ecotec you could just swap the wiring harness and ECU and go. Besides HPT will tune a Ecotec ECU as well. Only possible reason is for a boost Ecotec to run the GM reflash for a 2.4. If you are going to go through the problems of hardwiring might as well go standalone.
FU Tuning
The reluctor ring is the biggest problem that I see. It can be easily fixed using Nukkin reluctor ring.
Let's say I'm using a car witch had a 2.4.
Using the 2.4 Ecm and harness.
Cam sensor - Batch fire - It can't be worst than my W41
Ignition module - It's no problem if you do the 2.2 coil swap. You can still use the 2.4 ICM and just have the spark plug wire with the right length.
Knock sensor - Like slow said, can be easily adapted
IAT- MAP- TPS are all the same plug usually
Coolant sensor should plug the same.
Reluctor ring - Nukkin ring should do the trick if the Eco ring if different.
Injectors are the same given the right year.
So like I said, it may need some extension for some plugs but not to the level of a stand alone nor finding a good harness. Harnesses here are pretty much all cut up when they take out an engine. Beside, the ecm and bcm don't see a difference between an Eco and an LD9. Like slow said, a 4cyl is a 4cyl.
Is there anything I'm missing?
Gilles
2.3 Ho
Using the 2.4 Ecm and harness.
Cam sensor - Batch fire - It can't be worst than my W41
Ignition module - It's no problem if you do the 2.2 coil swap. You can still use the 2.4 ICM and just have the spark plug wire with the right length.
Knock sensor - Like slow said, can be easily adapted
IAT- MAP- TPS are all the same plug usually
I know the TPS plug is different for a Ecotec, and for some reason I thought the Map was to.
Coolant sensor should plug the same.
Reluctor ring - Nukkin ring should do the trick if the Eco ring if different.
I know there has been talk about the reluctor rings on the Ecotec, and do not remember what all is was, but I think Suncavi said it there is a problem there
Injectors are the same given the right year.
So like I said, it may need some extension for some plugs but not to the level of a stand alone nor finding a good harness. Harnesses here are pretty much all cut up when they take out an engine. Beside, the ecm and bcm don't see a difference between an Eco and an LD9. Like slow said, a 4cyl is a 4cyl.
I think you can find a good harness easier than you think
Is there anything I'm missing?
FU Tuning
TPS and MAP sensor plug could be different. I've never worked on an Eco. The voltage should be the same so changing the plugs shouldn't be that difficult. Plus, the MAP is not really a problem if you think about it. It only needs a vacuum source from the manifold so the 2.4 map could be used. Is the ECO TPS a 3 wire like the 2.4? 1 constant 5V, 1 neg and 1 variable?
This reluctor ring should do the trcik and eliminate any problem the ecm could have with it. The ecm would see it just like a 2.4 ring.
Gilles
2.3 Ho
Mfk-223 wrote:TPS and MAP sensor plug could be different. I've never worked on an Eco. The voltage should be the same so changing the plugs shouldn't be that difficult. Plus, the MAP is not really a problem if you think about it. It only needs a vacuum source from the manifold so the 2.4 map could be used. Is the ECO TPS a 3 wire like the 2.4? 1 constant 5V, 1 neg and 1 variable?
This reluctor ring should do the trcik and eliminate any problem the ecm could have with it. The ecm would see it just like a 2.4 ring.
I think the TPS on a Ecotec is 4 wire. I do know that you can run and drive a Ecotec without a TPS and it will drive normal, where a 2.4 will barely run with the TPS disconnected.
FU Tuning
That's the kind of answer I was looking for. I don't know if the 2.4 TPS could be mounted on the Eco TB. The other option would be to use a 2.4/2.3 TB but I'm sure it's too different to even fit.
Gilles
2.3 Ho
I just checked on partsamerica.com and they show a 3 wire TPS for an 03 Eco.
Gilles
2.3 Ho
I might be wrong it it might be 3 wire. Here is a link to a site that has most schematics for the 2200/2.4/ and Ecotec
schematics
The TPS sensor on a Ecotec does looks different, so I do not think a 2.4 TPS would work on a Ecotec TB.
FU Tuning
I saw that it wasn't even close to be the same thing. But if it's a 3 wires plug, I'm sure I could use the Eco plug and wire it to the 2.4 harness.
Gilles
2.3 Ho
So nobody has good hope that it would work?
Gilles
2.3 Ho
Mfk-223 wrote:So nobody has good hope that it would work?
I'm sure it can be done. I just do not see the point. I feel the time and eas saved by just swapping harness's and ECU's is so worth it.
FU Tuning
Mfk-223 wrote:So nobody has good hope that it would work?
I see no reason why it wouldn't work.
Most of the concerns listed here are mistaken.
In a J, there are no CAN issues. All sensors would swap over and if the MAP range was slightly shifted from eco to 2.4 it would be simply tuned away during the normal tuning that would be required anyway. In 2002, all the other car components were shared between 2.4 and ECO anyway.
The crank reluctor is probably timed exactly the same way and is definitely 7x. A timing light is all thats needed to check and the result, if wrong, it can be tuned out. The ICM created cam signal would work for the 2.4 pcm.
The only real reasons I can guess as to why it hasn't been done are:
1- most people are afraid of wiring.
2- the 2 PCMs mounting, location, and size are way different. It would be way hard to put a 2.4 PCM into the place of a Eco PCM physically. And it would take major harness changes to move the PCM too.
3- Not too many people are actually interested in a PCM change no matter what the result could be. I can probably count on one hand the actual # of people who did 95 swaps when it became clear that tuning was available for them long before HP Tuners for 97-up. The same also probably applies to 95-96 owners swapping for 97+ to use HP Tuners.
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listening just in case Shifted's ECU never comes to be.
2004 Cavalier coupe, 5 speed, White
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im listening to this too...
personally, if i were to swap to an ecotec, this would be what i would want to do.
in ontario here, i can get an ecotec and transmission for the price of an LD9 if im lucky. the ecos seem to run around $500 and the trannys are about $300. the LD9's run for a good $750-1300 for a pulled one, $2300-ish for a reman).
the reason why i would want to use the older 2.4L ECU is that it is already unlocked with HPT. this would save me having to waste credits.
now what would save me some more money is if i could use my current 4t40 in place of the eco 4t40... sigh. (please correct me if im wrong about the trannys)
1997 Cavalier Z24 - 16.3 in 1320 and falling...
