P0141, P0135 and P1134 - Performance Forum

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P0141, P0135 and P1134
Monday, August 10, 2009 2:59 PM
Since my header install i've had these codes:

P0141 O2 Heater circuit bank 1 sensor 2
P0135 O2 hearter circuit bank 1 sensor 1
P1134 HO2S Transition time fault Bank 1 sensor 1

Before I got out and buy new sensors ($200Cdn for both) I want to make sure that is the problem. The car runs fine, just really rich. exhaust smells and i'm burning a lot of extra gas.

I do not have a scan tool at my disposal, is there any way I can pin point the problem?

I did run my car with the second o2 sensor unplugged from the harness. Could it be as easy as a scan tool reset?

Re: P0141, P0135 and P1134
Monday, August 10, 2009 5:32 PM
Symptoms

You will likely notice poor fuel economy the illumination of the Check Engine Light.
Causes

A code P0141 may mean that one or more of the following has happened:

* open or short to ground in the wiring harness
* O2 heater circuit wiring high resistance
* O2 heater element resistance is high
* Internal short or open in the heater element


Causes

A code P0135 may mean that one or more of the following has happened:

* O2 Heater element resistance is high
* Internal short or open in the heater element
* O2 heater circuit wiring high resistance
* open or short to ground in the wiring harness

Here's the information about the P1134 code below and a bit of an explanation about it.
Oxygen Sensor Codes: Avoiding The Common Pitfalls

Oxygen Sensors, otherwise referred to as O2 Sensors, and their related check engine light codes, can be troublesome at the very best! Today we discuss the design and function of these sensors, and some of the pitfalls encountered during the diagnosis of their related fault codes.



It seems as though the check engine light and O2 Sensor codes have always gone hand in hand. I can’t even begin to tell you how many perfectly good sensors I’ve seen replaced for a rich/lean code, or as a cure to a service engine light that comes and goes. Fact is, when oxygen sensors were first being used, they did tend to fail. But manufacturers have been redesigning and tweaking these parts for over twenty years, and nowadays they are fairly bullet proof! Oxygen sensor codes no longer mean "replace the oxygen sensor", and this mindset can be costly! So what goes wrong during the diagnosis of these systems? Well, let me share my experience and you can take it for what it’s worth!

Nearly all engine control systems are comprised of multiple sub-systems. These sub-systems each depend on correct input from other areas of the electronic engine control system in order to perform their individual tasks properly. Confused yet? Keep reading, it’ll make sense soon!

There are a large number of codes relating to oxygen sensor faults. There are also a lot of faults that are often incorrectly thought to be caused by a bad oxygen sensor (also referred to as an O2 Sensor). The O2 codes relating to circuit faults can be tested fairly easily. For help on these codes, check out our Generic OBDII list and definitely read our article on diagnosing the wiring related portion of a trouble code. You will also run into codes for the O2 heater circuits. Newer O2 sensors have heaters as part of their design. This allows them to get up to temperature quicker and begin functioning sooner, resulting in lower overall vehicle emissions. If you ever need specific in depth code help, use the “Get Help” link and we can run down the basics with you as needed. The codes that may give you more of a run for your money are the PO171-P0175 generic (or similar manufacturer specific) codes. These codes tell you that despite the computers attempts to correct fuel trim (the amount of time the injectors stay on, delivering more or less fuel as needed); it can not obtain the correct air/fuel ratio. These are known as rich and lean codes, and almost as often as I’ve seen new oxygen sensors installed for these codes, I’ve seen the same vehicles need re-diagnosis!

First we need to understand how an oxygen sensor works. The oxygen sensor screws into the exhaust and the sensor end protrudes into the pipe so that exhaust gases pass across the sensors internal element. There is a steel shielding with slots that direct exhaust flow across the actual element. As a note, oxygen sensors used to determine engine fuel ratios are always located in front of the catalytic converter. The sensors behind the cats are called monitors and we will discuss these later. Sensors are normally described with the prefix HO2S meaning Heated Oxygen Sensor and followed with bank and position number. For example HO2S11 would be the oxygen sensor on bank 1 and first in line (pre catalytic converter) and HO2S12 would be on bank 1, but second in line (the monitor) An oxygen sensor creates a voltage between 0 and 1 volt by means of a chemical reaction between the sensor element and the oxygen in the exhaust passing across that element. Outside air also passes through the sensor and it is a comparison between the oxygen content in the exhaust and fresh air that actually determines voltage output (information for trivial purposes only and for curious techs). Believe it or not, the fresh air on many sensors actually travels through the wiring insulation! Anyway, a voltage closer to one volt indicates a rich condition and closer to zero indicates lean. The computer uses this valve to constantly adjust fuel trim to maintain a 14.7:1 air fuel ratio. We will be putting up an article on fuel trim soon but this is a huge topic all on its own. Okay so this is where it gets somewhat complicated. Just kidding! It’s all nuts and bolts; and wires, and chemicals and never mind!

Okay so the more oxygen in the exhaust (lean condition) the lower the voltage from the O2 sensor and the more fuel the computer calls for. Then the oxygen content in the exhaust drops (because it is being used up in the combustion process), and the voltage increases (rich condition) and the process repeats, for as long as the car is running, hundreds of times a minute. A gasoline internal combustion engine needs oxygen to burn the fuel. If the mixture is ideal (or 14.7:1) then all of the oxygen is consumed as the fuel is burned. The exact amount of fuel needed to produce a 14.7:1 air/fuel ratio varies with barometric pressure (altitude), relative humidity and fuel quality and condition; thus the need for oxygen sensors.

So knowing all of this what should we check when we have those pesky rich or lean codes? The most common issues for lean codes are:

1. Vacuum leaks - check for failed or loose vacuum lines, leaking intake gaskets, intake air tubes loose or any other source of un-metered air leaks (leaks after the Mass Air Flow Sensor)
2. Restricted fuel filter or bent/pinched fuel system lines
3. Incorrect input from other sensors, such as the Mass Air Flow Sensor, which may not always drop a separate code
4. Engine misfire – Yes I know this one may seem weird. You might think that if there is a misfire then you will have all that unburned fuel and it should read rich; right? Well the O2 sensors read only oxygen content in the exhaust, so if you have all that unburned fuel from incomplete combustion then, you guessed it, you also have all that unburned oxygen. High O2 content in exhaust equals a lean reading!

There are also some other possibilities such as an internally leaking EGR system, (but this will typically set a separate code). A leak in the exhaust system before the O2 sensor will also cause incorrect readings. And always check for after- market modifications. These can throw a wrench into the works! The only other possibilities (however unlikely), are wiring issues, computer concerns or a bad O2 sensor! There now that I’ve said it, on to rich codes.

The possible causes of rich codes are:

1. A leaking or faulty fuel injector
2. Fuel injector driver in computer shorted, or wiring short for injectors (likely a ground short)
3. Leaking or faulty fuel pressure regulator or restricted return line
4. Faulty evaporative emissions system - bleeding fuel vapors into engine (not commanded by computer)
5. On newer models a faulty fuel pump or fuel pump driver module
6. Faulty readings from other sensors such as a Mass Air Flow Sensor. You may actually be getting more air than the MAF tells the computer
7. Exhaust leaks before the sensor will cause erratic readings
8. After market components or performance chips
9. And yes, if I dare say it, possibly a computer, wiring issue or even a faulty O2 sensor!

The other codes we should address are those related to the sensors located after the catalytic converter. Though these may appear identical to the oxygen sensors pre-converter, they perform an entirely different task and are known as Monitors. The only job of these sensors is to “monitor” the efficiency of the catalytic converters. The readings from these sensors should be much more stable and not fluctuating like the front O2 sensors. The computer compares the readings from the oxygen sensors (pre cats) and the monitors (post cat) to determine if the catalytic converters are doing their job and “cleaning” the exhaust. You never want to replace a monitor for a rich/lean concern as they have no bearing on these codes. As the converters begin to fail, you will see the monitors voltage readings follow the oxygen sensor readings. Technically these are all “oxygen sensors” but it is important to distinguish the difference between pre-converter & post converter sensors, so I find it easiest to stick to calling the back ones monitors.

And that pretty much wraps up my ideas on this topic. If you’ve run into other causes of these codes for gasoline engines then use the contact form and educate me! The quickest way to learn is through somebody else’s experience! Hope we helped to shed some light.

The engine-light-help.com Team


Hope this helps you a bit.






Misnblu.com
Newbie member since 1999
Thank you Dave and JBO!





Re: P0141, P0135 and P1134
Tuesday, August 11, 2009 8:50 AM
Did you unplug the o2 sensor harness from the rest of the vehicle BEFORE you twisted them out?? If not you probably tore a few wires






Re: P0141, P0135 and P1134
Thursday, August 13, 2009 8:45 AM
RyZ96 wrote:Did you unplug the o2 sensor harness from the rest of the vehicle BEFORE you twisted them out?? If not you probably tore a few wires


I can't believe I didn't think of that before I took em out! I'll def. check the state of the wiring tonight, hope it's as easy to get out on the Tsudo header as my stock!

Misnblu:
Thanks again for the proper information, you always seem to have solid answers, or at least suggestions.
From all the info I narrowed my problem down to these:

1. Possible exhaust leak before a sensor (my second o2 did have erratic voltages) and I never did a thorough check for exhaust leaks after the first day the exhaust was installed.

2. Loose or damaged wiring in one of my sensors (twisted them before I unplugged from harness)

3. And of course the fact that i installed a after market header, with full 2.5" exhaust pipe and a high flow cat. I have this eerie feeling that I will always be burning more gas as long as my performance parts are in. For now though I HAVE to get rid of that stupid light!!!

I'm going to do some resistance tests on my sensor wiring first to eliminate them first. I think my best case scenario is a faulty sensor, but now I know it can soo much more.......Damn all this information!!!

ALL I WANTED WAS TO GO FAST!!!
Re: P0141, P0135 and P1134
Thursday, August 13, 2009 3:54 PM
A little bit of trouble shooting and you should be fine.
Since you've got the header, you may want to look into doing the 4 wire heated O2 sensor mod for your pre-cat sensor.
The mod really works and if you're cheap like me, you can get the 4 wire O2 sensors from the junkyard all day long.
Just get one from a car that is relatively new or doesn't have that many miles on it by reading the odometer.

Good luck with it and before you know it, you'll be going fast.


Misnblu.com
Newbie member since 1999
Thank you Dave and JBO!





Re: P0141, P0135 and P1134
Thursday, August 20, 2009 12:46 PM
ok, so i know you will be dissapointed when you hear this (BLU), but i'm man enough to admit when I Noob out.

I Checked the wiring on the O2 sensor after the cat and it looked good. But I didn't do any resistance checks or anything. I replaced it with an NGK, and the engine light came off for about 10 mins. Then when i came off the highway and pulled into a parking lot, it came back on!! DAMN!!!!

I drove all the way to Buffalo NY with the light on. It took me a half tank from toronto, to Buffalo internaional airport. I feel like a complete idiot becuase i did what the noobs do, buy and pray. I am in NYC right now, with my car parked at the Buffalo airport. WHen i get home i will throughly go through both o2 sensors (pre and post cat) and do the proper tests on them. My old o2 out of my cat was pretty banged up looking. FUll of black residue.

So much for troubleshooting.... $120 later and i'm still up the creek. ANYWAY i'll post up when i do actually get rid of the stupid light. for now i'm just putting in 94 octane and watching my fuel gauge move.
Re: P0141, P0135 and P1134
Thursday, August 20, 2009 3:31 PM
Sounds good but we all learn as we go.
Sometimes you have to replace parts to see if that's the problem or not and is part of the learning experience.
Just keep the new O2 sensor and it won't hurt to have for replacement down the road.
Good luck on the rest of it though.



Misnblu.com
Newbie member since 1999
Thank you Dave and JBO!





Re: P0141, P0135 and P1134
Friday, August 21, 2009 4:40 PM
thnx blu
Re: P0141, P0135 and P1134
Friday, August 28, 2009 8:25 AM
Random fix possibility?

I cleared the engine light again yesterday morning, and miraculously it hasn't come back on.. It was the same code too....

strange isn't it? The temperature has taken a drop these past nights, but I don't know it that would have an impact....


F.Y.I.
Re: P0141, P0135 and P1134
Saturday, September 05, 2009 6:49 PM
light came back on later that day when I downshifted from 5th- 3rd. lame...
Re: P0141, P0135 and P1134
Saturday, September 05, 2009 8:46 PM
Get an AC Delco. I had O2 symptoms once (even before the header) and used a replacement Bosch sensor. Car did all sorts of funny stuff after. Put in an AC Delco sensor and was fine after.




Re: P0141, P0135 and P1134
Tuesday, September 08, 2009 6:24 AM
Ender_Wiggin wrote:Get an AC Delco. I had O2 symptoms once (even before the header) and used a replacement Bosch sensor. Car did all sorts of funny stuff after. Put in an AC Delco sensor and was fine after.


Do you have a high flo cat?
Re: P0141, P0135 and P1134
Wednesday, September 09, 2009 9:21 AM
forgot to add,

2 of the codes went away, now it's just P0135. grrrrrrrr.
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