I know this is a repost but i'm not getting any info on region section of the forums. Ok so my 96 2.2 has 162 thousand miles on it and i can tell she's getting tired so i was thinking about doing a rebuild NOT a swap. I was thinking about using 98 2200 pistons to bump the compression on my old 2.2. P&P my head/intake figured i would do this my self, roller rockers,cam and maybe do a TB upgrade/swap. I'm not looking at doing any head work besides Decking and P&P.

Plans consist of a N/A build thats all.

So my question are:

1) What should i watch out for on P&Ping the head/intake?
2) Do i have to use the 2200 rods with the pistons or can i just use the 2200 pistons?
3) Is this a TB upgrade for our cars or had someone done a TB swap be4 on the 2.2?
4) What is a good size cam for the 2.2 that has a loppy idol?
5) Can i use SBC roller rockers w/o any mods to make them fit? or would i need narrow body rockers?
6) What kinda compression am i looking at when using the 96 2.2 head with the 98 2200 pistons?
Things i would get done no matter what
Getting the block and head decked.
Fresh .030 over bore

What are some good links for getting some upgrade on the 2.2?
I have a calais 90 2.3 HO tranny and was thinking while the cavie is down putting a TG LSD in it. Will a 5spd getrag outa a calais work w/o major mods?
I know there is a guy on here overkillperformance.com i belive thats it that sells the mount for the swap but where do i get an adapter plat or do i swap the bell housing from my 2.2 to the getrag 5spd?

thanks

The trans used behind the Quad4 won't bolt-up, it uses a different bellhousing mating pattern (LN2: Corporate-transverse (as I call it) which is shared with all other engines found in FWD GM cars. Quad4: All it's own. Ecotec: See "Quad4".). You'll need an adaptor-plate, but I wouldn't recommend it.


Go beyond the "bolt-on".

I posted what you had to do in the other thread. It's all not really that hard at all.

Mike (JBO Shortbus) wrote:1) Make sure you do it right if you do it yourself. Learn about it first and make sure you have the proper equipment. And do not remove the vane in the exhaust ports.
2) No.
3) No upgrade available. But you could always make a custom plenum and add the TB of your choice.
4) You will most likely need to have a custom grind done.
5) No. Here is what you should read.

And for 6, I have seen anything from 10:1 up to 14:1. I figure/have seen posted that it would be somewhere in the area of 11.5:1

For the 5 speed, Just get the isuzu from another 2.2. I have one that I am swapping in.

I can not offer a ton of information on the build of the 2.2, I would seriously try to get in touch with OHV Notec, Mad Jack, or Matt Linke, to name a few.

However, for the tranny, I would recommend getting yourself an Isuzu from a 95-99 2.3/2.4 car, and swap the final drive gears. You can still put the TG LSD in it, and you will gain power to your wheels by a steeper final drive. Another consideration would be to find a Geo Storm (non-GSi) or Isuzu Stylus (SOHC engine) from the early 90's. You can swap that carrier in, which is stronger, and the synchros, which are stronger as well.

Quiklilcav wrote:I can not offer a ton of information on the build of the 2.2, I would seriously try to get in touch with OHV Notec, Mad Jack, or Matt Linke, to name a few.

However, for the tranny, I would recommend getting yourself an Isuzu from a 95-99 2.3/2.4 car, and swap the final drive gears. You can still put the TG LSD in it, and you will gain power to your wheels by a steeper final drive. Another consideration would be to find a Geo Storm (non-GSi) or Isuzu Stylus (SOHC engine) from the early 90's. You can swap that carrier in, which is stronger, and the synchros, which are stronger as well.

wow i didn't know that about the trannys and what or how much of a difference would the final drive swap make?

And does anybody know 100% for sure what the compression ratio is with the 2200 piston swap?

you would have to get it CC'd a t a shop who has the equipment to be able to do that.

the average, for a NON shaved head is about 10.7 or 10.8:1 compression. mind you, that is with an average sized and properly torqued down head with head gasket.

find an Isuzu Stylus, that's the best bet for the transmission, I'm currently trying to find one for myself, I just have to get the money together for it first, hahah.

justin stockdall wrote:wow i didn't know that about the trannys and what or how much of a difference would the final drive swap make?

It would make a big difference. You have a 3.58 FDR, and the 2.3/2.4 Isuzu has a 3.94 FDR. You can also swap the actual gears around to fine tune your setup.

Here is some useful info for you:

SpeedRacerZ wrote:Isuzu Gear ratios

2.4 (95-99)
1st 3.73
2nd 2.18
3rd 1.33
4th 0.92
5th 0.74
FDR 3.94

2.2 (9?-99)
1st 3.91
2nd 2.18
3rd 1.45
4th 1.03
5th 0.74
FDR 3.58

Fiero (4 cylinder)
1st 3.73
2nd 2.04
3rd 1.45
4th 1.03
5th 0.74
FDR 3.35

Impulse/Storm SOHC
1st 3.272
2nd 2.043
3rd 1.448
4th 1.027
5th 0.829
FDR 3.833

Impulse/Storm DOHC
1st 3.727
2nd 2.043
3rd 1.448
4th 1.027
5th 0.89
FDR 4.117

One caution though..... the DOHC Storm uses larger axles, so the spider gears in the Diff have larger holes in them.... our axles wont snap in.

this is helping out alot guys and thanks so its more about the trans than anything for performance for the 2.2 cavie's i have a spare 2.4 5spd isuzu tranny in the shed what gears would be best for the swapable gears? and i don't want to have to mess with the bigger axles so what does that give me for performance avaibleity?

You only would have an axle issue if you used a diff from a DOHC Geo/Isuzu. Swapping parts between the J-body versions isn't an issue.

As for which gears, check out this thread for some info on making your decision. As you can see, there are plenty of options.

jason stockdall wrote:96 2.2 OHV Performance? NOT TURBO

is there a such thing?



Familiar Taste of Poison.

z yaaaa wrote:

jason stockdall wrote:96 2.2 OHV Performance? NOT TURBO

is there a such thing?

its called swapped 3400





Rememeber kids... spell check is your friend

Schaffer wrote:its called swapped 3400

justin stockdall wrote:I know this is a repost but i'm not getting any info on region section of the forums. Ok so my 96 2.2 has 162 thousand miles on it and i can tell she's getting tired so i was thinking about doing a rebuild NOT a swap.thanks

i guess some ppl just can't read all of the first post!!!

No they just see 2.2L OHV or 2200 or LN2 and automatically ASSUME the only thing to do is swap it out.

JersyJayLN2 (Scarab) wrote:I'm going to say it again, as I do in all these threads-

First stop is the junkyard.

Pick up a spare motor so you can take your time and build it out of the car while your car still runs. Typically, LN2's can be found for $200-500 depending on mileage. (If that much!)

Don't expect significant gains from bolt-ons. The key areas to work on with an LN2 are the head, cam, and compression ratio. Port the head, get it machined for 1mm oversized valves, do the SBC valvetrain conversion, get the cam reground.

Talk directly to a reputable cam grinder like Comp Cams or similar and tell them what you want out of the engine. Have specs like head flow and compression ratio, rod/stroke ratio, all motor or boosted, etc. ready for them as all should be taken into account by the grinder. Know what you want the engine to do- for straight drag racing, the cam will be different than for a street car, or an autocross/road racing/time attack car. IMO, for a street car that sees some track time, you want a cam that gives you a rich powerband in the 3000-7000 rpm area as even with valvetrain upgrades, the LN2 won't ever be a really high rpm screamer like the hondas.

For pistons, if you're going boost you can stick with a stock compression ratio piston, or you can go lower. I'm pretty sure the only choices for LN2 pistons are either 8.5:1 (lower than stock of 9ish:1) or higher than stock at 11-12:1. No matter what pistons you purchase, ALWAYS get them and your head CC'd and calculate the actual compression ratio of the engine. Advertised compression ratios or pistons can vary from slightly off to completely incorrect, and if the ratio winds up too high for boost you'll have serious tuning headaches. Make sure the pistons you're ordering are for the engine you have. While pistons from the 2.2 and 2200 will switch back and forth physically, if you put a 8.5:1 piston from a 2200 into a 2.2 it will have a much different compression ratio.

Rods- Eagles are pretty cheap these days and will stand up to just about anything you'll be able to throw at them.


Most importantly- don't cheap out. Spend the money and take the time to do everything the right way the first time. Come up with a goal, be it a specific track time or horsepower number, and then a plan to meet that goal using the best components for the job. Don't just grab whatever crap will work because its cheaper than the proper parts. Thats how you wind up with a cobbled together mess that you either wind up redoing later (and spending more money to fix) or a non-functioning car that pisses you off until you sell it and get something else.

There's plenty of other threads with alot of valuble information on the org, it just takes time and effort to find it. Doing the proper research will help you learn the motor better and build the best motor for your application.Just bolting something on it won't do you much good.

ya if i do this i'm going to get a cam and do the SBC upgrade and P&P head and intake manny for it but MADJACK do you know what kinda compression your looking at when swaping 2200 pistons into a 96 2.2 LN2??

that'll depend on if you've taken any off of your head or not, with my 97, I calculated it out to 10.8:1 compression for my set-up.

10.8:1 is rather high, even for an aluminum headed, fuel injected motor. I'm not saying it can't or hasn't been done, but you pushing the limit.

A few years back I did the math and came up with a way to get to 10:1 with the stock/stock replacement pistons. Zero deck the block and shave the head approximately 0.030". You will need pushrods that are about .050" shorter, due to the reduced deck height. This will vary also, due to the rocker arms used, valve job, cam regrind and manufacturing variances of all parts involved.

You will need to swap the PCM and engine wiring harness, so you can get tuned. The '96 PCM isn't supported by HP Tuners. A '97 PCM and harness is the easiest to swap in, just plug and play. Others can be used, but require wiring work to make them work.

MadJack wrote:10.8:1 is rather high, even for an aluminum headed, fuel injected motor. I'm not saying it can't or hasn't been done, but you pushing the limit.

A few years back I did the math and came up with a way to get to 10:1 with the stock/stock replacement pistons. Zero deck the block and shave the head approximately 0.030". You will need pushrods that are about .050" shorter, due to the reduced deck height. This will vary also, due to the rocker arms used, valve job, cam regrind and manufacturing variances of all parts involved.

You will need to swap the PCM and engine wiring harness, so you can get tuned. The '96 PCM isn't supported by HP Tuners. A '97 PCM and harness is the easiest to swap in, just plug and play. Others can be used, but require wiring work to make them work.

When I get a 97 5spd 2.2 Ill definitely be doing the 2200 swap. Not trying to argue but with Hptuners 10.8-1 isnt that bad. With my Z I did the 086 swap and my compression is 11.37-1 and when I hooked up Hptuners it only showed spark knock in a few areas with premium fuel. I adjusted timing and Its been running strong for about 2 years now. Ive seen guys running 10.5-1 on midgrade fuel and the stock eco runs 10-1 with the low grade.

Now that being said idk if you meant thats pushing it on this specific engine due to design or just in general. But I thought id share my experience.

MadJack wrote:10.8:1 is rather high, even for an aluminum headed, fuel injected motor. I'm not saying it can't or hasn't been done, but you pushing the limit.

I know I'll be pushing it, that's my plan though, I want to see something go boom. give me a chance to do a bigger and better build and go with the boost.

Zs Z wrote:When I get a 97 5spd 2.2 Ill definitely be doing the 2200 swap. Not trying to argue but with Hptuners 10.8-1 isnt that bad. With my Z I did the 086 swap and my compression is 11.37-1 and when I hooked up Hptuners it only showed spark knock in a few areas with premium fuel. I adjusted timing and Its been running strong for about 2 years now. Ive seen guys running 10.5-1 on midgrade fuel and the stock eco runs 10-1 with the low grade.

Now that being said idk if you meant thats pushing it on this specific engine due to design or just in general. But I thought id share my experience.

I believe it's more towards the LN2. with 9.?:1 compression stock, it's a pretty decent jump right off the bat.

by no means am I pulling off anything Guptil did, but I'm going to try to get relatively close.

I don't even want to be close to guptil lol, I just want some higher comp. for now...

One thing I've been noticing is the 4 valve motors take to higher compression ratios better than the two valve motors(in general). The lobe centers of the camshaft can play a big role in the dynamic compression ratio also. The four valve motors typically have tighter lobe centers along with the higher CR. This could be in part due to the higher low lift flow of four valve motors. Then again, most of my experience has been with OHV motors.

MadJack wrote:One thing I've been noticing is the 4 valve motors take to higher compression ratios better than the two valve motors(in general). The lobe centers of the camshaft can play a big role in the dynamic compression ratio also. The four valve motors typically have tighter lobe centers along with the higher CR. This could be in part due to the higher low lift flow of four valve motors. Then again, most of my experience has been with OHV motors.

That makes sense, I was thinking thats where you were coming from.

Having seen what typical 4-valve engine chambers look like (Think: Pent-roof) and remembering how Chrysler first developed the Hemi because it was looking for a design of engine that could make the most power (High-compression) outta the least octane to market after WWII (Fear was abound that there may not be much availability of high-octane fuel after the war) it's easy to for me to see why 4-valves have more leeway which higher compression numbers: The design is least prone to detonation, just like the Hemi.


Go beyond the "bolt-on".

ok im sorry in advance but im gonna be a a**hole for a sec because this needs to be said if this will lead to me being booted i will accept it but this need to be said i for one love my ln2 they may be cheap under rated econoboxes but they can make numbers and it takes alot of time research and own personal trial and error to make them go fast not just but the first readily kit available so again i appologize for this as its not called for but it need to be said

NOT EVERYONE WANTS TO SWAP OUT THERE F***ING ENGINE THERE ARE PEOPLE OUT THERE THAT LIKE THE PUSHROD LN2 AND WANNA SEE IT MAKE NUMBERS AND WHEN SOMEONE SAYS HOW CAN I OR
2.2 OHV PERFORMANCE NOT TURBO THEY DONT F***ING MEEN SWAP WE LIKE OUR LN2'S AND THE FACT THAT ITS A 350 CUT IN HALF JUST MEANS THAT PARTS ARE CHEAP AND 40% PERCENT OF PEOPLE THAT OWN ONE CANT AFFORD A SWAP SO THE NEXT TIME PLEASE READ THE GOD DAMN TITLE A F*** OFF WITH THE SWAP S*** IF I WANTED A TWIN CAM ENGINE ID BUY A INTEGRA NOT A ECOTEC AND IF I WANTED A 6 CYL ID BUY A NISSAN NOT A 3100 - 3800 AND IM SURE INFACT I KNOW THAT EVERYONE ON THIS SITE AGREES WITH ME WHEN I SAY THE NEXT TIME U WANNA SAY SWAP JUST F*** OFF LITERLY F*** OFF AND LEARN TO READ TITLES OF FORUM TOPICS




if it start the next day it can be driven harder

95gtzspec2, that was completely unnecessary.

There are discussions going on in this thread about possibilities of the 2.2, and you just shitted up the thread with a big, bold, red rant. Not to mention the fact that you aren't even the OP here.

i agree with 95gtz to the point i wish some ppl would just read the post and help on what the topic is about and not what other ways around it are. but i see what you guys are talking about with the 2 valve and 4 valve my 93 HO GA 5spd with 180hp quad4 in it has 10:1's stock and 4valves per cyl.