Hey everybody!

I'm new to JBO but I've got to say I've been accessing the site for a few months now getting ideas and really reading up. I want to thank all the pioneers and experts here for making so much information accessible for us J body guys, and especially for us OHV guys. I've read up a lot on rocker arm replacement, cams, technical specs and such on the OHV now and I would like you guys to take a look at what I'm considering for mods and mod schedule. Also I'm wondering what I can get by without, and what support systems I definitely need to invest in. They say building the OHV isn't cheap, but I have some goals in mind, and I think I can get it done cheap enough for me.

I've also read a lot of back and fourth between people about how easy or not easy the OHV is to build, and I've got some insights on that; it's difficult to get to some parts of the engine (well most of it actually lol), AND it's difficult as hell to find suitable parts for it, BUT....it is a reliable engine (I've pounded abused and neglected mine at times for 3 years now), and it has a familiar and simple lay out.

At this point my car is all caught up on regular maintenance, I've got new struts, brake discs, drums, pads, new coolant, water pump, serpentine belt/tensioner, spark plugs, ignition wires, ram air intake, new shiny chrome muffler new wheels and rubber. New windsheild washer fluid too!!! lol

Currently planned mods; This spring;
1.) Put on my Weap-R headers/downpipe, and Magnaflow hi-flo cat, new resonator and hook up to my sexy chromed out muffler with 2.25" piping all the way back. (got the parts)
2.) Drop it 1.5" w/Eibach lowering springs, and add Eibach sway bars in front and rear.
3.) Touch up some paint and rebuff him real good

Then, here's where I can use some advice, I've not committed to any specific order of operation, but here's what I've got loosely put together;
1.) New 58mm throttlebody
2.) 550cc fuel injectors? New Oil pump
3.) Head work.....
This would include; P & P, new rocker arms, new Comp Cam, springs retainers, and gasket set.
It would make a whole lot of sense to go ahead and do the lower block that I plan on doing at some point right here, but I don't know if a) I will have enough cash at any one point in time to do both at the same time b) if I'm patient enough to gather all the parts bit by bit and sit on them for months until I have everything together in order to do both.

4.) My plans for the lower block; Eagle con rods and high comp pistons (I'm committed to going all N/A)

Where in this process is it most logical to do an MSD ignition system, and an aluminum radiator?

What other support components am I forgetting about that should be necessary?

If I do most, if not all of this work myself (which I'm pretty comfortable with) I'm thinking around 3500-4000 bucks? Maybe lil more.

Finally, does anybody think it's reasonable to see around 200hp with this set up? That is what I'm kind of shooting for.

Thanks guys, If anybody replies, Ecotec I will strangle you! lol j/k

I like cold women and hot beer....errrr wait

Andy Long wrote:
2.) 550cc fuel injectors?

not remotely nessesary on an a N/A ohv.

Quote:


Where in this process is it most logical to do an MSD ignition system, and an aluminum radiator?

with the OHV? the msd would be a downgrade, and the factory radiator is aluminum.

Quote:

Finally, does anybody think it's reasonable to see around 200hp with this set up?

no. you're starting with 115hp AT THE CRANK. an 85 hp gain will require boost or juice. with what you've listed, you'd be lucky to pick up an additional 15hp, and that's being generous.




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Rich Grayo Jr. wrote:


no. you're starting with 115hp AT THE CRANK. an 85 hp gain will require boost or juice. with what you've listed, you'd be lucky to pick up an additional 15hp, and that's being generous.

Well, yeah, 115, but pick up an add of only 15 you think? Seriously? What, other than what I've listed are applicable mods to pick up N/A hp?

I don't understand how some guys can do all of this +turbo are making 300+ hp with the OHV?

I'm admittedly a noob, but I'm mechanically incline and I'm trained in advanced level physics....I don't really see what I'm missing?


I like cold women and hot beer....errrr wait

jfire26 wrote:

Rich Grayo Jr. wrote:


no. you're starting with 115hp AT THE CRANK. an 85 hp gain will require boost or juice. with what you've listed, you'd be lucky to pick up an additional 15hp, and that's being generous.

Well, yeah, 115, but pick up an add of only 15 you think? Seriously? What, other than what I've listed are applicable mods to pick up N/A hp?

I don't understand how some guys can do all of this +turbo are making 300+ hp with the OHV?

I'm admittedly a noob, but I'm mechanically incline and I'm trained in advanced level physics....I don't really see what I'm missing?

it has a lot to do with the turbo setup. is a 200hp OHV possible? sure, i think bob guptill's dirt track car is around that area. but that's not something you'd wan't to drive on the street, the engine is designed to make all it's power in the last few thousand rpm, which isn't where you're at while driving daily. the ohv simply doesn't respond well to bolt on mods, to get real power out of one, you will have to turbo.



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jfire26 wrote:I don't understand how some guys can do all of this +turbo are making 300+ hp with the OHV?

Simple math really..

Boost+Good Tune+Built Engine=High HP OHV

Bolt-ons will only push you back up to about 115-120@ the wheels (And that is also being very generous). Because your engine may push about 115@ the crank, It loses a bit going through the drivetrain. So, stock at the wheels, You are looking at about 95HP. Granted, I do not have any dyno sheets to prove any of these numbers..So these are all estimates. But I'm sure others will probably agree..

^tis true. drivetrain loss is pretty depressing. you may want to start with some chassis upgrades and engine/tranny mounts and find out how much more fun and enjoyable the car is to drive without looking to add "ton's" of power. just a thought. suspension/chassis' are overlooked pretty frequently in the race to achieve high amounts of hp.

Mike wrote:

jfire26 wrote:I don't understand how some guys can do all of this +turbo are making 300+ hp with the OHV?

Simple math really..

Boost+Good Tune+Built Engine=High HP OHV

That's some pretty shaky arithmetic lol! But I get it.

Mike wrote:Bolt-ons will only push you back up to about 115-120@ the wheels (And that is also being very generous).

I'm a bit surprised, but not deterred. I really enjoy the "moments" of performance this engine has as it is. I'd like a little more consistency.

blucavvy wrote:^tis true. drivetrain loss is pretty depressing. you may want to start with some chassis upgrades and engine/tranny mounts and find out how much more fun and enjoyable the car is to drive without looking to add "ton's" of power. just a thought. suspension/chassis' are overlooked pretty frequently in the race to achieve high amounts of hp.

Yeah that's a solid 10-4 there on the mounts. Like I said I've studied physics at the calculus level (mostly circuits and hydro dynamics) so I totally understand power-train losses.

Rich Grayo Jr. wrote: the engine is designed to make all it's power in the last few thousand rpm, which isn't where you're at while driving daily. the ohv simply doesn't respond well to bolt on mods, to get real power out of one, you will have to turbo.

Yeah I understand hp. I guess I was pretty broad when I picked that number, and only simply because, there is typically a correlation between hp and torque. In so many words hp= speed torque= acceleration.
My goals really center around acceleration to be honest. This car only occasionally makes it out of a 45mph zone.

Is there any credence in modifying the valve train to be more low-mid range torque biased?

What suggestions might you have for me with that in mind?


I like cold women and hot beer....errrr wait

Oh yeah...and what about a shift kit for 4spd AT?


I like cold women and hot beer....errrr wait

Honestly, man, depending on how much of your daily-driven ability you want to give up, 200HP is not out of reach. Like was stated above, there are dirt track/race-only cars out there with the 2200 that are making around that number. Granted, those cars are not daily driven. The compression you would have to run would most likely dictate that you run race gas only, and the cam profile would be really wild. At full throttle, you may have some fun. But putting along through cities would be a bitch!

It's admirable that you want to run the car N/A, but realistically you can build a turbo'd 2200 for the same money. And the HP-to-dollar ratio would be so much better. Not to mention, you can make FAR better #'s and still drive the car to the grocery store with the wife and kids in tow. lol.

Whatever you decide to do, good luck. If you do choose to build an N/A engine, keep us posted on the progress no matter how slow it may be.

jfire26 wrote:Oh yeah...and what about a shift kit for 4spd AT?

b+m makes a nice shift kit. faster, and stronger shifts for 30 bucks.

blucavvy wrote:

jfire26 wrote:Oh yeah...and what about a shift kit for 4spd AT?

b+m makes a nice shift kit. faster, and stronger shifts for 30 bucks.

Yeah sweet, I just checked that out. Normally I would think too good to be true, but B & M make some great stuff. Dad had a 71 Nova SS we redid when I was a kid and he had a hammer shifter, that thing was awesome! Well....the whole car was awesome!


I like cold women and hot beer....errrr wait

Mike wrote:
Simple math really..

Boost+Good Tune+Built Engine=High HP OHV

Bolt-ons will only push you back up to about 115-120@ the wheels (And that is also being very generous). Because your engine may push about 115@ the crank, It loses a bit going through the drivetrain. So, stock at the wheels, You are looking at about 95HP. Granted, I do not have any dyno sheets to prove any of these numbers..So these are all estimates. But I'm sure others will probably agree..

my old 98 sunfire with a 2200 5speed, mods included 56mm TB, straight through 2" exhaust, and a short ram intake, dyno'd 90whp and 110 wtq

dxdean3 wrote:

Mike wrote:
Simple math really..

Boost+Good Tune+Built Engine=High HP OHV

Bolt-ons will only push you back up to about 115-120@ the wheels (And that is also being very generous). Because your engine may push about 115@ the crank, It loses a bit going through the drivetrain. So, stock at the wheels, You are looking at about 95HP. Granted, I do not have any dyno sheets to prove any of these numbers..So these are all estimates. But I'm sure others will probably agree..

my old 98 sunfire with a 2200 5speed, mods included 56mm TB, straight through 2" exhaust, and a short ram intake, dyno'd 90whp and 110 wtq

LOL that's awesome! I guess his arithmetic isn't so shaky lmfao! Cheers to guestimation!


I like cold women and hot beer....errrr wait

I am in the process of building around the same setup for my cav. The high compression pistons, around 11:1 Wisecos are going to up the hp. Look into the Cometic head gasket, it is thinner than stock so it will also increase compression, as well as milling the head. Eagle rods are always nice, but I have heard they arent necessary, and the stock rods will work to around 200 hp. You can always Knife edge the crank, and things like that if you prefer.

With the head, bigger valves are always nice, and the ports can be opened up a decent amount. It will be cheaper to do a cam regrind, and also look into the SBC roller rocker upgrade. Going to a 1.6 roller, will increase the lift on the cam as well. There are plenty of articles on springs, retainers, locks, rockers etc on here. When everything is done, the tune is always the biggest part. You dont want all your hard work to be ruined. There are many little things that can be done that will help increase power, just a matter of time and research. It will take a long time so research everything before doing.




XtremE2200CaV

Just boost it. Once you're boosted once you'll never go back. I dont plan on ever owning a car again that doenst produce positive manifold pressure, even if its a v8.


1994 Saturn SL2 Home Coming Edition: backup car
2002 Chevy Cavalier LS Sport Coupe: In a Junk Yard
1995 Mazda Miata R-package Class=STR
Sponsored by: Kronos Performance

WPI Class of '12 Mechanical Engineering
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dxdean3 wrote: my old 98 sunfire with a 2200 5speed, mods included 56mm TB, straight through 2" exhaust, and a short ram intake, dyno'd 90whp and 110 wtq

Nathan, This isn't necessarily typical from most 5speeds I've seen, especially from a Dynojet. Typically they do run right around 94-95 hp. Some of the factors that would have affected those results are the weather during the runs, the age and condition of the motor and even the calibration on the dyno. I would have expected more torque with a 2" exhaust, but that can depend on the system. That small would need to be mandrel bent for best results.


Andy, 200 flywheel streetable horsepower is definitely possible, but will require some fab work and some custom parts. Tuning and transmission mods will be needed. I'll break it down later.

200 wheel horsepower is possible, but it would be what I would call streetable.

yeah the engine had 280xxxkms on it it was blazing hot out that day, and the engine started over heating during the 2nd pull, and all i had for the exhaust was a stock replacment piping, no cat, and a fart can lmao, oh well ive gone eco now, couldnt be happier

Leafy wrote:Just boost it. Once you're boosted once you'll never go back.

No! And that's all I have to say about that. lol

I really don't want to deal with maintaining a boosted system, and I already have a non turbo header.

MadJack wrote:Andy, 200 flywheel streetable horsepower is definitely possible, but will require some fab work and some custom parts. Tuning and transmission mods will be needed. I'll break it down later.
200 wheel horsepower is possible, but it would be what I would call streetable.

What do you mean "streetable" ? And please by all means go on! I've seen many of your posts, you are a technical junkie man!


I like cold women and hot beer....errrr wait

Why not go with a 3100/3400 v6? I don't understand why more people don't do this swap, instead of spending alot of money for similar horsepower. If you wanna stick with the 2.2 you can use the 2200 98+ pistons, but im not sure what you can do to make it more streetable. Maybe do some research on being able to run E85? I think with some higher compression pistons, head, cam, valvetrain work you should get around 150 hp, but you could swap in the 3100/3400 and have more than that stock and tons of potentional depending upon how much work /money you wanna spend.

My bad I see you already have the 2200, then you would have to go with higher compression pistons.

Andrew Ruschmann wrote:Why not go with a 3100/3400 v6? I don't understand why more people don't do this swap, instead of spending alot of money for similar horsepower. If you wanna stick with the 2.2 you can use the 2200 98+ pistons, but im not sure what you can do to make it more streetable. Maybe do some research on being able to run E85? I think with some higher compression pistons, head, cam, valvetrain work you should get around 150 hp, but you could swap in the 3100/3400 and have more than that stock and tons of potentional depending upon how much work /money you wanna spend.

Because I never want to work on a tranaxle v6 EVER AGAIN. I don't enjoy having to put the car on a lift and using three 12" extensions and 2 swivels just to change the plugs...Just IMO.


"In Oldskool we trust"

Andrew Ruschmann wrote:Why not go with a 3100/3400 v6? I don't understand why more people don't do this swap, instead of spending alot of money for similar horsepower.

Now that's an interesting thought actually. I haven't found any good threads on JBO about this.

From what I've seen of a few with the 3400's they sound like a bitch to convert to. Does the L81 fit any nicer, anybody got any good thread links? or is the L81 just the same size and hurdles as the LA1 and what about the LQ1 for that matter?

Ryan Pitt wrote: Because I never want to work on a tranaxle v6 EVER AGAIN. I don't enjoy having to put the car on a lift and using three 12" extensions and 2 swivels just to change the plugs...Just IMO.

Yeah I know the 60 degree platforms are hard to get at, but I might do it anyways lol. Thanks for the insight!


I like cold women and hot beer....errrr wait

Also, I wouldn't suppose that the LN2 tranny would link up or will it. Against all probability I know, but sometimes GM does something convenient for everybody, I haven't seen any remarks on other threads concerning this either.


I like cold women and hot beer....errrr wait

jfire26 wrote:Also, I wouldn't suppose that the LN2 tranny would link up or will it. Against all probability I know, but sometimes GM does something convenient for everybody, I haven't seen any remarks on other threads concerning this either.

Actually it will, check out any of the V6 swap threads

OP: The best thing you can do is search, search and search some more. I'm slowly building mine but I'm not expecting huge numbers, just enough to keep up with traffic lol. I know you're committed to N/A but I just picked up a nitrous kit which is extremely cheap compared to everything needed for a turbo, couldn't hurt to have some fun

But N2O doesnt help you keep up with traffic. Its nice to not have to shift out of 5th on the high way to make a pass at 70 without even putting the pedal down. <3 Boost.


1994 Saturn SL2 Home Coming Edition: backup car
2002 Chevy Cavalier LS Sport Coupe: In a Junk Yard
1995 Mazda Miata R-package Class=STR
Sponsored by: Kronos Performance

WPI Class of '12 Mechanical Engineering
WPI SAE Risk and Sustainability Management Officer