I read through the forums alot and see alot of people telling other people how stuff should be done. My question is simply who here actually has any sort of formal training (school, apprenticeship etc.) in the suspension feild?
This is not meant to cause problems just let people know who really knows their facts, and who is giving opinions from what they have.
I, also been to toptech Alignment classes ( its a joke...he just talks about how fast he is and you should be...didnt learn much for what was paid). But most of what people tell others on here is a matter of personal opinion, preference and expierence. Although i would say many are highly knowledgeable, may not have any formal training or tickets. I personaly notice that many people with no knowledge or understanding start guessing at things and it doesnt help. Not trying to be mean but it happens everywhere. i'm sure what i'm trying to say is confusing but bet a few people understand what im talking about.
School gets you a paper saying your smart........life experience actually makes you smart......
Alot of the main peopel giving advice on here may not have "formal" training but they ahve years of experience from what they have learned or what has been passed on from other users....
Honestly, you need schooling when you're designing something, whether at the car manufacturer level, or a shock/spring aftermarket manufacturer.
Nobody here is that, we are end users. End users have no other choice than whats already given to them. So, our field is testing what's already out there with our experiences. That's our training.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
- Sold my beloved J in April 2010 -
most give their opinion based on experience. some people out there have done their research in addition to trial and error (event comes to mind).
personally, when somebody asks about something that I have experience with, i try to give my opinion based on my experiences.
when i said formal training i also meant actual knowledge in how stuff is supposed to work together design a suspension and stuff like that. not just i read reviews about this bout it and bolted it on.
I have 4 years background in mechanical engineering (no degree, it was a certificate program, and then I worked in the field for maybe 2 years). I have an AS in Advanced Automotive Tech, and all my "filler" classes were suspension related (ie- performance mods, advanced alignments, suspension tuning). I spent one terrible year working at a dealer, and decided replacing wear parts was pretty boring, so ever since, I've just done work on the side for local friends, etc. I build and work on road race cars in my spare time.
Suspensions are just like most other automotive systems. Once you've seen one, you've seen them all, so applying something from another manufacturer or principal of operation isn't too difficult.
You won't see me try to diagnose too much here. Diagnosing suspension problems is rough sometimes, especially when you can't see it or hear what its doing. If I do diagnose something, its based on seeing other people with the same or similar problems. Think- bad wheel bearing, its sound the same on just about every car out there, and has the same symptoms.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Sunday, February 03, 2008 6:28 AM
Most people on here give opinions/advice. There is no certainty that the given answer is correct but its all a matter of trial and error and experience. Pretty much everyone that gives advice on here has had some experience with that specific problem and as James said above a problem e.g, bad wheel bearing, sounds the same on pretty much any car, therefore making it easier to diagnose. All a certificate says is you have passed the exams and the course it does not mean you know everything and have had experience with everything and every part/product. I'm my opinion there is not better way to learn then getting stuck in and just doing it and gaining that experience to be able to help people in the future.
Just my 2cents though
(99 - Sunfire - Red - 2200)(95 - Cavalier z24 - Purple - 2.3 quad four)
I have had formal schooling on automotive suspensions and tractor trailer suspensions. I had also had some experiance in working on both, but not as much as james.
Viper98912 wrote:Honestly, you need schooling when you're designing something, whether at the car manufacturer level, or a shock/spring aftermarket manufacturer.
Nobody here is that, we are end users. End users have no other choice than whats already given to them. So, our field is testing what's already out there with our experiences. That's our training.
Wrong, I work as a mechanical designer personally, although MOST of my work is NOT automotive related, I do design and test work on automotive parts. I have 2 college degrees, and I am an ASE certified tech. who worked in the field for 5 years.
Although I do agree with most everything here. Anyone who reads a few books can get certified, but hands on experience is what REALLY counts. Although the certifications DO help in getting a better pay rate....
Basically you have to take advice on here as just that advice...it may work, may not. It is the person who USES the advice on here that is really at risk, and it does not matter WHO gives it to them, whether it a Mastertech certified GM mechanic, or a newbie that thinks they're a hot shot. When it boils down to it, if you don't know what you are doing, take it somewhere or to someone that does. Learn from them...hands on, not reading in a forum.
x3 someone said what i was trying to..
I have an education with gran turismo 4(ps2 platform) and I learned a lot
but t's not the same with sitting in the class and getting advice from those who experienced it.say even if I learned in a class about how pistons work and what kind should be used, I will still go around and ask which one they have used and prefer to use. I rather get a certificate from the guys here jbody.org than sit in a class..(BTW, i'm an RT who rather study an automotive class than educate myself with patients
)
John Benham wrote:Viper98912 wrote:Honestly, you need schooling when you're designing something, whether at the car manufacturer level, or a shock/spring aftermarket manufacturer.
Nobody here is that, we are end users. End users have no other choice than whats already given to them. So, our field is testing what's already out there with our experiences. That's our training.
Wrong, I work as a mechanical designer personally, although MOST of my work is NOT automotive related, I do design and test work on automotive parts. I have 2 college degrees, and I am an ASE certified tech. who worked in the field for 5 years.
Although I do agree with most everything here. Anyone who reads a few books can get certified, but hands on experience is what REALLY counts. Although the certifications DO help in getting a better pay rate....
Basically you have to take advice on here as just that advice...it may work, may not. It is the person who USES the advice on here that is really at risk, and it does not matter WHO gives it to them, whether it a Mastertech certified GM mechanic, or a newbie that thinks they're a hot shot. When it boils down to it, if you don't know what you are doing, take it somewhere or to someone that does. Learn from them...hands on, not reading in a forum.
Wrong, because I have yet to see anyone on jbo (that is not a company or using company resources) to FORMALLY DESIGN A SUSPENSION PART FROM SCRATCH for these cars. I'm talking about making something new, doing calculations, analysis, and etc. The closest I've seen is MDLD9 or whatever that made the pulleys and did some FEA on it.
Now, I'm not saying school isn't good, because it helps you learn the theory behind it, but if we're talking about designing from scratch, us as end users are not there. Now, if we're talking about using learned knowledge to put together components that are already out there and understand why they act as they do and what the specs mean on them, then yes.
Out of curiosity though, what are your two degrees and from where? This is only curiosity of a fellow mechanical designer or engineer.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
- Sold my beloved J in April 2010 -
Well actually I have personally worked with my engineer friend to develop a self-adjusting shock system that adjusts firmness to road and driving conditions (not specifically for the J). He did most of the mathmatical work, I did the design, modelling, & FEA. We ended up not doing anything with it because of the cost of manufacturing. I work with several gear heads at my job, we do get together to do some design work like this, however suspension (& J-bodies) are not usually the target of these little "sessions".
Both my degrees are from California University (of Pennsylvania), in Industrial Technology, & Computer Aided Drafting & Design.
I currently work as a mechanical designer for a Pittsburgh company that designs metal processing equipment (furnaces, melting equipment, etc...)
Hey quiklilcav i was wondering if you could let me in on some of the books you have read because i am really interested in learning more? i would really appreciate it.
Cool, I haven't seen it, but would like to
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
- Sold my beloved J in April 2010 -
I don't have any training. But when I autocross I know what the numbers on the black box mean and the things I've done to make them smaller. To me thats all thats important for my car.
When choosing suspension it comes down to personal preference and end user experience. Here at the JBO we have a good number of brands we'd reccomend. Most anything outside of those your taking your own risk.
Examples of Good stuff for the J:
Eibach
Ground Control
Koni
AGX
TEIN
Road Magnet
Gold Line
Tockico (d-spec struts only)
and theres a few more.
-Chris
^ just what he said these are what other ppl suggest you use some are expensive some not that badd but learn from experience, weather it be a cheap way or an expensive way learn from mistakes and if you find somethign that works for you and if you liek it then stick with it.
I have been a Michigan certified brake and suspension technician for years. I am currently at school for a Mechanical Engineering degree. I work as an engineer for American Showa where I design, build, test and tune OE struts and dampers for most Honda/Acura vehicles. That is my background.
However, there are way too many things that I don't understand yet, most of that is in the advanced dynamics. But unless I am sure I know the answer to a question, I won't give my opinion. And thats all I will give, opinion. Whether it is the correct answer or not is for the user to decide. The best advice i have is to take what people say here and use it as a basis for your own research. Don't take ANYONE'S advice for the absolute truth.
And James said it well. Suspension is suspension. There is little difference between them. Even between McPherson and SLA designs. The basic functions are all the same. Once you truely understand whats going on, you can use that knowledge for most vehicles.
Go Go OG Traction!!
note to those who dont know. SLA means Short long arm ( i wont explain more than that..). you also forgot the modified mcpherson strut. yet again well put
i give my opinions based on personal experience on what i have used. items such as
skunk2 coils on stock struts
skunk2 coils on koni reds
air ride
tein ss
road magnets on dspecs
kyb gr2 struts.
not to mention ive been around here long enough to get an idea of what is pretty much good and what isnt based on my experiences and the reviews from other members
I fix cars for a living, I've been doing it full time for 5 years. I'm certified by ASE, Volkwagen, and Audi for Suspension And Steering as well as Brakes, I'm been to school for alignment through Audi, VW, and Hunter. I've installed suspension and big brake upgrades on all kinds of things.... from J bodys to VW's, from a Ferrari 360 Modena Challenge car to a couple Porche's, hell I've even done a Spec Miata car.
As far as J-bodys go I've installed alot of different things, ridden in alot of difference setups, and owned a bunch.
Suspension stuff I've owned..
-Stock
-RKSport Prostreet coilovers
-Koni Yellows with Sportline Springs
-Koni Yellows with Road Magnet Springs
-Koni Yellows with Ground Control Coilovers
-Tien Basic coilovers
