LOL^
I think your taking what I said too far, and turning this into an argument over a definition of "just enough". lol
What I meant, and tried to make clear...was additional material that is otherwise not needed is what? A waste...no?
I don't understand how a company that spends $ to find out if they can achieve the same results with less material is considered 'hurting quality'. I do see how that can benefit them in the long run by saving the initial cost of research $ + more....but making wallets fat? I don't see that...sorry. A good comparison here would be rods....would you think heavy and big is better? Maybe some people would, but I'd rather take the rod that was made by a company who designed the rod 'just right'...meaning no added useless weight where it doesn't need to be. Do you see the point now?
I wont argue "my vs. your" definition of 'just right', please insert whatever phrase you want there that lines up these concepts and call it a day there buddy.
I would much rather buy a turbo that has been opened up internally as much as possible while still continuing to maintain said quality and reducing weight of the finished product(think of this a factory porting if you will)...does that sound better to you now?
I really do fail to see the issue with this.....sorry. I'm not saying all things mentioned in that guys post are wrong, and if true...yeah, well, that sucks....but whatever. You're right, I do like Garrett, but so does the OEM industry.
I also fail to see how this relates to toyota in any way, sorry. I have no idea how they test, or even garrett for that matter, so this is why I left my observations very generic in nature.
Garrett guilty of: Reducing product cost(saving them $), reducing product weight(saving the customer weight), possibly increasing flow area(definitely a win for the customer).
Toyoa guilty of: Lack of testing a part?, Lack of QC?, Lack of admitting to a problem when they had the chance to fix it earlier and hope it went away?
Boil that down and I yet to see any benefit for the customer on the Toyota side of your comparison yet see obvious advantages to the customer in the side effects of Garrett's efforts.
You can find product changes based on engineering analysis in everything you buy, use, consume, ect.... You willing to blame all the manufacturers of said products that they are simply using these new-fangled tactics to save cash and pad wallets? Or would you rather see the product costs/manufacturing costs of said products to drop, becoming cheaper to the buyer/user? Yes, there will be some of both, obviously because the company is in business to make money but also they have engineering costs to recover too. In the long run, this mostly benefits the customer in cheaper goods after the initial cost of research investment has been recovered.....if for no other reason than to gain market share in their respective segments by decreasing product costs.
I do not see this to be a bad thing, but I will blame these tactics to be at fault for making many of the things we take for granted today as cost effective many many many years ago.....
Thrice . wrote:Not trying to start anything, just saying people can take any sentence and re-phrase/ say it in a different tone, to use to someone's (dis)advantage.
It's quite evident, the story quoted by vince, clearly states "Just Enough" in this instince, isn't for the better of a quality product, but to make fat wallets, fatter.
Obviously true, however this guy doesn't seem technical in any way, and he brought nothing to the table that imply's anything negative about the product IMHO.
Product cost reduction is a VERY old and good way of reworking old products to make them cheaper, better, faster. Before I'd blame Garrett for outsourcing labor why don't we all be grown men/women and admit that our Government has literally forced US based companies to these means to only stay a-float against cheaper imports. I'd blame minimum wage, state and federal taxes, insurances, ect...all functions of our society, before I'd blame it on Garrett with the whole "OOOO...those greedy bastards" mentality. Look up Honeywell's Income after taxes and tell me if you think they could survive with 100% domestic labor, benefits, taxes, not too mention US labor being sue happy too. We as a society have driven US based companies to view US labor as an expensive hobby, only used to assemble as little as possible and be able to slap a sticker on the box that says "Made In America". I don't blame US companies one bit for hauling a$$, US labor force is more of a liability that requires top notch legal support just to protect themselves from. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you.
Anyone willing to stop and consider maybe Honeywell bought Garrett cause they saw the ability to purchase a company with good cost/profit ratios just to balance their own books to save themselves from bankruptcy? This does happen.....
Sorry to rant on, but this whole "O my god, US companies are leaving for cheap labor to pad wallets" crap is just that....CRAP! It's what us as a society has driven most companies to do, it's time to wake up and realize this is more a function of (domestic labor force and government) ignorance and less a function of domestic corporate greed.
Thrice . wrote:It's quite evident, the story quoted by vince, clearly states "Just Enough" in this instince, isn't for the better of a quality product, but to make fat wallets, fatter.
You could be right, but so could I in saying that it is simply a redesign of product line in an effort to better there position in the market.....no? This guy sure doesn't sound technical, doesn't really sound like he knows much about turbo's. I'd sooner bet this guy is just a PO'd employee ready to hit the soup line. Yeah, that sucks, but of all the people laid off from so many companies which all could be guilty of similar accusations...yet this guy decides to throw down a smear campaign against a current and likely former employer. Like a 'fire me and you'll pay tactic'. Blah, I have little patience for that stuff.
Let there current and future quality speak for itself and ignore dis-disgruntled employees along the way. Right or wrong, there will only be one way to find out and only time will tell in this case. One thing is certain tho, Google ANY company and you will find tragic horror stories about all companies, including your BW, or rather YOUR semi-chuby maker.....
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Monday, March 01, 2010 1:47 PM
"Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience!" -Anonymous
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heh..