Contrats on the numbers!




I was a retard, and now I'm permanently banned.

One more time Bill, good numbers.
Now, to ask you a couple of questions, and people can think I am flaming or whatever, but I know I am not and so will you.

You said that you put down close to 350 with the 16G on 23-25psi, roughly or do I have my numbers messed up right off the bat?
Now you switch over to a 20G which considerably flows more and you have to crank it up to 28-30 psi to squeeze 50 more hp?
If the amount of flow that 20G does on 18-19 psi is the same as 16G is on 23-25 psi, you should be able to get that 50 hp from just keeping the boost the same and getting those extra 50 from cfm increase.
Now I know that even if you would TRY to push the 16G to 2Bar, it would peak out and drop off right arouns 1.6 or so, since those are the more common measurements when it comes to my DSM boys.

Another thing is about efficiency.
Last time I got the compressor maps for a 14B small/big 16G, 20G, and 25G, on a 4G63 DOHC motor they all lose efficiency at right around 1.6 Bar MAX!
2 Bar would be an inch off the top of the compressor map if you know what I mean.lol
Cfm/air flow, is uncomperable in those Turbos, but they all lose efficiency at pretty much the same point, including my T3/T04E, only Turbos that can carry past 25 psi would be Ball bearing or really big ones such as .82, .96, A/R and some gigant compressors.

So how is your Turbo efficient at 28-30psi? and why did you have to crank it up so much only not to get so much.

I am not dogging the set up by no means, and you guys have surpassed me and my set up by far, so I have no room to dis here.
For everyone that might think I am doing that, I AM NOT, just asking a couple of simple questions.
Thanks, for my future info.



Best time:"""11.946""" @ 114.73 mph @17psi 1.83--60"
11 second daily driver!!!!
Race Related 727-561-9440
Shop of choice for your 11 second J body!

Also, built bottom end and or top end LSJ and L61's available.
13's ----12's ----11's ----10's

SunCavi_L61T3/T04E wrote:One more time Bill, good numbers.
Now, to ask you a couple of questions, and people can think I am flaming or whatever, but I know I am not and so will you.

You said that you put down close to 350 with the 16G on 23-25psi, roughly or do I have my numbers messed up right off the bat?
Now you switch over to a 20G which considerably flows more and you have to crank it up to 28-30 psi to squeeze 50 more hp?
If the amount of flow that 20G does on 18-19 psi is the same as 16G is on 23-25 psi, you should be able to get that 50 hp from just keeping the boost the same and getting those extra 50 from cfm increase.
Now I know that even if you would TRY to push the 16G to 2Bar, it would peak out and drop off right arouns 1.6 or so, since those are the more common measurements when it comes to my DSM boys.

Another thing is about efficiency.
Last time I got the compressor maps for a 14B small/big 16G, 20G, and 25G, on a 4G63 DOHC motor they all lose efficiency at right around 1.6 Bar MAX!
2 Bar would be an inch off the top of the compressor map if you know what I mean.lol
Cfm/air flow, is uncomperable in those Turbos, but they all lose efficiency at pretty much the same point, including my T3/T04E, only Turbos that can carry past 25 psi would be Ball bearing or really big ones such as .82, .96, A/R and some gigant compressors.

So how is your Turbo efficient at 28-30psi? and why did you have to crank it up so much only not to get so much.

I am not dogging the set up by no means, and you guys have surpassed me and my set up by far, so I have no room to dis here.
For everyone that might think I am doing that, I AM NOT, just asking a couple of simple questions.
Thanks, for my future info.

Ahhhhhh Judas speaks... j/k man just givin ya @!#$. It is an interesting question though




I was a retard, and now I'm permanently banned.

Ohhhhhh, Judas, that is cold. lol
I am second in line I HAVE to know. lol



Best time:"""11.946""" @ 114.73 mph @17psi 1.83--60"
11 second daily driver!!!!
Race Related 727-561-9440
Shop of choice for your 11 second J body!

Also, built bottom end and or top end LSJ and L61's available.
13's ----12's ----11's ----10's

Nice numbers!!!!!!!!!!!



FU Tuning

SunCavi_L61T3/T04E wrote:One more time Bill, good numbers.
Now, to ask you a couple of questions, and people can think I am flaming or whatever, but I know I am not and so will you.

You said that you put down close to 350 with the 16G on 23-25psi, roughly or do I have my numbers messed up right off the bat?
Now you switch over to a 20G which considerably flows more and you have to crank it up to 28-30 psi to squeeze 50 more hp?
If the amount of flow that 20G does on 18-19 psi is the same as 16G is on 23-25 psi, you should be able to get that 50 hp from just keeping the boost the same and getting those extra 50 from cfm increase.

He would only gain power from the 20G upgrade at the same boost pressure if the 16G he was using was out of efficiency at that boost pressure. Just because its more efficient at higher cfm does not mean it is any more efficiency at lower cfm levels.

Bill, very nice numbers.


- 93 mph in the 1/8 mile
Member of J-Body Of Michigan.

WOW


E-ticket ride for sure now

good luck at the track , and get some videos for us , please

SunCavi_L61T3/T04E wrote:One more time Bill, good numbers.
Now, to ask you a couple of questions, and people can think I am flaming or whatever, but I know I am not and so will you.

You said that you put down close to 350 with the 16G on 23-25psi, roughly or do I have my numbers messed up right off the bat?
Now you switch over to a 20G which considerably flows more and you have to crank it up to 28-30 psi to squeeze 50 more hp?
If the amount of flow that 20G does on 18-19 psi is the same as 16G is on 23-25 psi, you should be able to get that 50 hp from just keeping the boost the same and getting those extra 50 from cfm increase.
Now I know that even if you would TRY to push the 16G to 2Bar, it would peak out and drop off right arouns 1.6 or so, since those are the more common measurements when it comes to my DSM boys.

Another thing is about efficiency.
Last time I got the compressor maps for a 14B small/big 16G, 20G, and 25G, on a 4G63 DOHC motor they all lose efficiency at right around 1.6 Bar MAX!
2 Bar would be an inch off the top of the compressor map if you know what I mean.lol
Cfm/air flow, is uncomperable in those Turbos, but they all lose efficiency at pretty much the same point, including my T3/T04E, only Turbos that can carry past 25 psi would be Ball bearing or really big ones such as .82, .96, A/R and some gigant compressors.

So how is your Turbo efficient at 28-30psi? and why did you have to crank it up so much only not to get so much.

I am not dogging the set up by no means, and you guys have surpassed me and my set up by far, so I have no room to dis here.
For everyone that might think I am doing that, I AM NOT, just asking a couple of simple questions.
Thanks, for my future info.

Not at all, my man. These are good questions, and there's some effective explanations.

First off, the 16G's effective airflow limit is about 400HP (crank) maximum. Depending upon engine size and lesser variables, this may occur at a variety of boost levels. On small engines (motorcycle), we see it at 30+ PSI. On a 2.2L Ecotec, it came in at 23-25 PSI (it tapers off to 23 or less at hi RPM). On a 2.4L SRT-4, it tapers to about 21 PSI at hi RPM. Suffice to say that had I been able to run 28-30 PSI with 16G on the Ecotec, I would have, but we hit the effective airflow limit at lower boost.

The 20G is approximately 20% larger. Thus, we can get about 20% more HP out of it before it's 'out of steam'. Thus the ability to carry higher boost at higher RPM, and allow 28-30 PSI.

Now, the Maximum numbers on any dyno run are only part of the story. While we see 55 more HP out of the 20G at peak, it's actually more like 65 HP better at redline. The best part, however, is the torque...only 15 more at peak, but a whopping 45 more at redline! This illustrates that while we were all over the 'choke point' of the 16G at 400 HP output, the 20G is breathing much better than 16G @ hi RPM. And with all due respect to testing and optimization, I've been running that 16G all season on the track, with 40+ dyno pulls too. With a mere 8 pulls, and no track time, so far on 20G, there's likely still some on the table. But rather than wring its neck on the first dyno session, I called it good @ 403 WHP (really just had to get into the 400's, lol). In any case, I prefer to do an initial dyno just to rough in a new combo, then track test it under real world conditions, then return to dyno with the new accumulated info, then back to track, etc.

There's some other potentially big factors that may be entering the picture now...as we approach 500 HP, some other limitations are almost certainly holding us back. Keep in mind...it's still a stock head, stock cams and valves, stock ignition, stock throttle body, our off the-shelf turbosystem with a 2 1/4" downpipe. Are all these items optimized at 476 HP? Undoubtedly not, but what we are out to prove is not that we have a perfectly realized 500 HP system, but rather that there is amazingly high power available with a very economical and street-friendly set of parts.

You can rest assured, I'd love nothing more than to strap the DFI back on, put on a killer cylinder head, a freeking HUGE turbo and downpipe, an ignition that would light up Pittsburgh,a 3" t/body, take off the air filter, maybe a shot of juice, and just get NASTY. But it wouldn't prove what I am out to prove, which is that a well-conceived set of parts can be amazingly broad in its power capability, and still be TRULY streetable, emissions-legal, and affordable.

However, as this journey is almost completed, 2006 could definitely involve some of the above....muahhahaaa!

PS: The Mitsu compressors we use (14B not included, that's a low-pressure dinosaur), as well as the turbines, are the best available in efficiency vs. broad, real-world capability for the money. You may find compressors that are more efficient in the power ranges we push them to at their maximum, but those turbos will not deliver as well in true-street low and midrange RPM. Anything that matches the Mitsu in these well-rounded aspects typically costs much more. I've researched that aspect thoroughly!



Bill Hahn Jr.
Hahn RaceCraft

World's Quickest and Fastest Street J-Bodies
Turbocharging GM FWD's since 1988
www.turbosystem.com