GM wants to raise its fuel economy by adding a Pontiac subcompact.
Dealer sources say GM plans to bring to the United States the Pontiac G3, a platform mate of the Chevrolet Aveo that is sold in Canada and Mexico.
GM also hopes to boost sales of the redesigned Aveo5 five-door when it arrives in showrooms in July, a spokesman says.
The EPA has approved for sale the Pontiac G3 and G3 five-door, twins of the Aveo. The G3 is certified as a 2009 model, according to the agency's Web site.
The site says both G3s and the 2009 Aveo5 are powered by a 1.6-liter engine and four-speed automatic transmission. They are EPA-rated at 25 mpg city and 34 highway.
Pontiac sells the current version of the G3 in Canada, where it is called the Wave, and in Mexico. News of the G3's 2009 EPA ratings caught some Pontiac executives by surprise.
Pontiac spokesman Jim Hopson said executives learned over Memorial Day weekend that the EPA had certified the G3.
One said that a GM executive confirmed to him this year that Pontiac would get a G3 compact based on the Aveo. The dealer says many dealers don't want a small economy car in Pontiac's lineup. Others inside GM say it's a move to round out the Buick-Pontiac-GMC channel.
Hopson says dealers have not asked for the car and already have a small economy car, the Pontiac Vibe five-door hatchback. The 2008 Vibe's EPA ratings are nearly the same as the G3.
But the G3 would cost less than the Toyota-built Vibe, which starts at $15,895, including shipping. The 2008 Chevy Aveo five-door starts at $10,895, although a Pontiac version likely will cost more.
For Chevy, the Aveo5 "is an important car," says Terry Rhadigan, a Chevrolet spokesman. "The market is about 75 percent five-doors now."
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-----The orginal Mr.Goodwrench on the JBO since 11/99-----
Do they not sell the Wave in the US then? I didn't see it on pontiac's site. Its just a rebadged aveo and we've had it here in Canada for as long as the aveo. If you go on www.gm.ca it is listed under pontiac as a 2009 G3 Wave so i guess its another name change like the G5 Pursuit.
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<<<<<2003 Sunfire Sedan>>>>>
wtf GM give the badge swapping a rest
Which one is it GM?
Will Pontiac be your performance division or not?
so where does pontiac now fit into GM's US lineup?? performance? performance-luxury? slightly-upscale-economy?
Sure the rebadge will up the gas milage average, but will it sell? pontiac's are traditionally more expensive than the chevy counterparts, and thats not a good thing when it comes to bottom of the barrel economy cars.
I'm not trying to start a war, but how many G5's do you see on the road vs cobalts? At least sunfires and cavy's were more closely priced. If GM wants this thing to sell, they had better make the price competetitive with the chevy counterpart, or make some seriously appealing options standard on the G3...
I don't see how they are maintaining a performance image right now other than the G8 coming. The '09 G5 doesn't have an option listed for the turbo engine even. Alot of people have moved away from Pontiac over the last decade and if they want to make people believe they are a performance brand and hook them for life they need to have their lower priced cars perform too so that someone who can only afford to get a G5 or even G3 can eventually move up to a more expensive performance car as they mature. I don't see why they have the solstice gxp to set them apart from chevy, but then fall behind chevy on the performance of the G5 and G3. They need to pick a direction and go with it if they want a consistent brand identity.
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<<<<<2003 Sunfire Sedan>>>>>
More badge swapping in the US then? We've had the wave as long as the Aveo. As far as the G5/Cobalt goes, I think they should just axe one of them. They don't look very different from each other. The cav and the Sunfire at least looked different (and TBQH, I really enjoy the style of the Sunfire over the cav by a long shot. It's just more aggressive looking, esp. with the evil eyes).
2010 Honda Fit LX
No, No i think there is something here.
I say sell it as the 3-door model. But totally seperate it from the Aveo by offering upscale items. Make the G3 a personal luxury performance compact (much like the Cooper Mini). Don't sell them stripped or as a no frills base model. Leave that to the Aveo, The pontiac should offer something in the G3 that you can't have at all in the Aveo. Top shelf stuff, Navi, power windows/locks/mirrors, power heated seats similar to/or sourced from the Cobalt SS or G8, A standard moonroof, standard keyless entry with window/moonroof control, leather interior, bose or high end stereo from Cadillac. All that should be mostly either standard or at least 90% with the leather as an option.
This thing should be marketed upscale as a domestic alternative to the Cooper Mini.
They should offer it as is N/A with the new 1.6 eco, and offer an optional turbo charged version of the new 1.6 eco and call it G3-GT. That way they could better compete with Mini's target market. If they do this and keep the price just under the Mini's sticker to give them a better price point (i say keep it just around $18,000 to $19,000 for the GT loaded) GM will have another huge hit on their hands.
"Formerly known as Jammit - JBO member since 1998" JBOM | CSS.net
Think Suzuki Swift GTi/GT for the next millenium, crossed with the Cooper Mini. GM would be stupid to not jump on the sport mini car market while it's hot. Mini can't make them fast enough, and with gas prices climbing this market will only continue to heat up.
"Formerly known as Jammit - JBO member since 1998" JBOM | CSS.net
I agree, Jooky, but I'd also wager that it will take some serious retooling of the platform to make it ride and corner like a mini. So much so that GM may as well just design a new chassis and be done with it.
Ever since Pontiac started using G's all over the damn place, it's been going downhill. I mean how much of a mouthful is the G5 GT? Gee Five Gee Tee? G6 GXP? Gee Six Gee Ex Pee? You sound like a damn tard saying random letters and numbers. They should rename the G5 the Pontiac Pursuit. What was wrong with that name? And what's the GT supposed to be again? It's not bad, but hardly a Grand Tourer, especially when put up against the monstrously fast Cobalt SS. They should either offer it as a Turbo or stop calling it a GT. Would make less G's in the name at least.
And what the HELL is a GXP? I mean come on... I hate the way that sounds. GTO, that was a name. GXP... pffft... sounds like a stereo system option code.
As for the G3/Wave, Jooky's right. Either they should offer stuff not available on the Chevy, like a sliding fabric "convertible" sunroof or leather interior or something... or else they shouldn't bother. As it stands now I think no one at Pontiac cares if these cars sell or not. They probably sell more G5's in Canada than they do in the US. Ridiculous. They need to offer it as a 3 door too, if for no other reason that it's called the G3 but also because guys who'd want to hot rod the things wouldn't touch that butt ugly 5 door.
There's so much wrong with Pontiac's lineup right now that it's not even funny. The G5/G6 for example steal sales from each other. I'm not saying that they're particularly similar. It's not like the days of the Sunfire/Grand Am, but I'm willing to bet that a lot of guys who'd want the 6 settled for the 5's much lower price and similar-ish specifications, likewise a lot of guys who bought the 6 really just wanted a very highly optioned 5. So why not combine two cars in one and save on design budgets?
The way things are going now I think Pontiac, along with Buick and Hummer, seems to be readying itself for cancellation as a make.
oldskool wrote:I agree, Jooky, but I'd also wager that it will take some serious retooling of the platform to make it ride and corner like a mini. So much so that GM may as well just design a new chassis and be done with it.
Maybe not. The Swift GTi/GT handled awesome over the platform shared Geo Metro. All it took was tweaks to the Spring rates/sway bars and shock/struts adjustments. I don't think it would handle as well as the Mini which is set up to handle amazingly. But lower it a 1/2 inch to an inch, slap bigger wheels and use GMs magic at developing excellent suspension packages (FE3 and whatnot) And i think they will have a VERY fun and zippy car.
"Formerly known as Jammit - JBO member since 1998" JBOM | CSS.net
Wasn't one of Pontiacs major goals a few years back to push their entire lineup to RWD vehicles only? They have how many of those now? Three?
Knoxfire wrote:Ever since Pontiac started using G's all over the damn place, it's been going downhill. I mean how much of a mouthful is the G5 GT? Gee Five Gee Tee? G6 GXP? Gee Six Gee Ex Pee? You sound like a damn tard saying random letters and numbers. They should rename the G5 the Pontiac Pursuit. What was wrong with that name? And what's the GT supposed to be again? It's not bad, but hardly a Grand Tourer, especially when put up against the monstrously fast Cobalt SS. They should either offer it as a Turbo or stop calling it a GT. Would make less G's in the name at least.
And what the HELL is a GXP? I mean come on... I hate the way that sounds. GTO, that was a name. GXP... pffft... sounds like a stereo system option code.
As for the G3/Wave, Jooky's right. Either they should offer stuff not available on the Chevy, like a sliding fabric "convertible" sunroof or leather interior or something... or else they shouldn't bother. As it stands now I think no one at Pontiac cares if these cars sell or not. They probably sell more G5's in Canada than they do in the US. Ridiculous. They need to offer it as a 3 door too, if for no other reason that it's called the G3 but also because guys who'd want to hot rod the things wouldn't touch that butt ugly 5 door.
There's so much wrong with Pontiac's lineup right now that it's not even funny. The G5/G6 for example steal sales from each other. I'm not saying that they're particularly similar. It's not like the days of the Sunfire/Grand Am, but I'm willing to bet that a lot of guys who'd want the 6 settled for the 5's much lower price and similar-ish specifications, likewise a lot of guys who bought the 6 really just wanted a very highly optioned 5. So why not combine two cars in one and save on design budgets?
The way things are going now I think Pontiac, along with Buick and Hummer, seems to be readying itself for cancellation as a make.
GT cars were originally meant to be a balance in performance and luxury (Or so I was lead to believe). I think the 2.4L does the compromised power fairly well (not a turbo or s/c, but decent power), but needs more goodies to be a true "GT" car.
2010 Honda Fit LX
Knoxfire wrote: the monstrously fast Cobalt SS.
BAHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!
You a funny man.
On the other hand....you have other fingers.
In my family we teach that boys have a God-stick and girls have a Shame Cave. -John Stewart
JLAudioCavalier wrote:Knoxfire wrote: the monstrously fast Cobalt SS.
BAHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!
You a funny man.
Uh... the Cobalt SS is the fastest FWD drive car on the Nurburgring, pulling an 8:22 time which is as fast as a BMW M3 and faster than a Nissan 350Z and Porsche Boxster, AND it does the quarter in about 13.9 seconds, which is as fast as a 1970 Chevelle SS454 LS6, a car long considered the highlight of the musclecar era.
So yeah, it's pretty fast for an economy car.
Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:Where did you get 13.9 again?
Dang nabbit... I hate it when some magazine publishes figures and doesn't write ESTIMATE next to them. Okay... so it's a 14.3-14.5 quarter car. Still pretty darn fast, and in the twists it'll blow away a lot of much more expensive and powerful cars.
Knoxfire wrote:and in the twists it'll blow away a lot of much more expensive and powerful cars.
Maybe, but not a BMW M3 or 350Z.
"Formerly known as Jammit - JBO member since 1998" JBOM | CSS.net
Here are some official Nurburgring times. I got them off Wikipedia.
8:13 Ferrari 355 GTB
8:22 Chevrolet Cobalt SS 2008 2.0 Turbo
8:22 Nissan Skyline GT-R R32 280 PS/1430 kg
8:22 BMW M3 E46 343 PS/1584 kg
8:22 BMW M Coupe E36/7 321 PS/1445 kg
8:24 Audi S5 354 PS/1718 kg
8:25 Jaguar XKR
8:24 Mitsubishi Charisma GT Evo VI
8:25 Mitsubishi Charisma GT Evo VII
8:26 BMW 335i E92 Coupe 306 PS
8:26 Nissan 350Z 290 PS
8:28 Porsche 911 Carrera (993) 272 PS
