im getting my exhaust redone from factory and i finally found a solution to the whole " 3" is too big for N/A" issue, by using the ECV by Apex'i i can manually alter the amount of backpreasure with the touch of a button. however my question is,........ has any one had their exhaust done by monroe muffler???? b/c im gonna need some extensive welding done and although im certified to weld just about anything, i dont have the 8g's for a decent tig welder nor do i hav access to one. so how good are their welds on stainless?? and how good are their bends/ over all quality??
btw i'll be using:
HKS Carbon Fiber Ti muffler w/ 75mm inlet
3" mangaflow hi flow cat
3" stainless steel tubing
80mm Decs ECV system from Apex'i
no resonator
thanks for the help
many changes in the making
my favorite part about doing bodywork,.......... bondo bugers
I wouldnt go there, they quoted me 300 bucks almost to install a cat, res, and muffler from the header back with crush bent pipe.
so where can you get all that for good price ...?!?!?!?!i was thinkin bout to run 2 1/4 from the headers to the exhaust! i heard you get more power w/ that !?!? not sure i saw this on here a while back cause my engine light is on and its the cat that causing it! so i wanna replace every thang too , cat, res,muffler.... what should be the correct quote to install all that!?!
98'zeta veinte-quatro
(z24)......
No I had those parts. They wanted that much to install them.
John VanCuran wrote:im getting my exhaust redone from factory and i finally found a solution to the whole " 3" is too big for N/A" issue, by using the ECV by Apex'i i can manually alter the amount of backpreasure with the touch of a button. however my question is,........ has any one had their exhaust done by monroe muffler???? b/c im gonna need some extensive welding done and although im certified to weld just about anything, i dont have the 8g's for a decent tig welder nor do i hav access to one. so how good are their welds on stainless?? and how good are their bends/ over all quality??
btw i'll be using:
HKS Carbon Fiber Ti muffler w/ 75mm inlet
3" mangaflow hi flow cat
3" stainless steel tubing
80mm Decs ECV system from Apex'i
no resonator
thanks for the help
A 3" exhaust with a valve to block the flow isn't going to help you the way you think it will. Backpressure is bad no matter what size exhaust you have. You'd still be better off with 2.25" piping from the header all the way back and 2.25" Magnaflow cat, then at the very end you could still step up to whatever size muffler you wanted.
You want to maintain exhaust velocity and have the LEAST amount of backpressure possible. You will make more power with a free flowing 2.25" diameter pipe than you will with a 3" diameter pipe and a valve to block exhaust flow.
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450WHP Turbo Ecotec swap in the works...
I have a 3400 and I only run a 2.5" pipe. Why waste money on the extra pipe size, then waste money on some extra junk to increase backpressure? That sounds like, well...... a waste.
Stainless pipe? I dont understand why. I've never run stainless steel pipe. I've not had issues with my setup at all. Unless it was for some show car.
Also, on 3" pipe, the rear axle is going to take them a good ammount of time to get over. Then the clearance will be pretty tight. So you probably wont want to have any weight (such as passengers) in the back of the car.
SHOoff wrote:I have a 3400 and I only run a 2.5" pipe. Why waste money on the extra pipe size, then waste money on some extra junk to increase backpressure? That sounds like, well...... a waste.
Perhaps he plans to run a turbo in the future, and doesn't feel like paying for the same mod twice. Granted, 2.5" piping would still be sufficient for a street motor with the turbo, but a 3" would definitely open it up at the track.
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"Youth in Asia"...I don't see anything wrong with that.
hell yes!!! brian has some common sense, i do plan on running a trubo in the future and im not gonna pay to get it done tice nor am i gonna pay for all the parts twice. as for the stainless part, the car is street/track/show and the pipe is getting wraped not to mention i live in NY, one of the worst states for non stainless. to spilner521, as for the valve,...... it does more than create back preasure, and from what you said, it sound like you watched overhaulin a few too many times and dont really know what your talking about. on a N/A motor you DO need back preasure. not to mention the valve also acts like a silencer, thus eliminating the need to buy one or having to get in and out of the car to put the damn thing in or take it out. btw whats with the very gay F&F name????? SPILNER?!?!?!?!? i mean come on..... oh well...... also im planning on an IRS swap so also not worried about the whole clearance issue. oh and the last reason im goin w/ stainless, is b/c the cat,valve and muffler are all........STAINLESS and you CAN'T weld mild steel to stainless. and for the smart ass who's gonna say, "why dont you use clamps??" b/c clamps are a pain in the ass and they can leak.
and as far as wasting money goes, why dont i buy those cheap ass guages and steering wheel from auto zone instead of the apexi el set and the momo steering wheel i have????.................... Quality and function. every thing i buy serves a function its not just there so i can say hey i have the "only turbocharged alero" or that i have the first cav with this or that.
so not that i got all that out of the way,......... does anyone have any answers to my question??? i asked about their welding abilities, not a critique on my setup. not to mention if im not happy, they dont get my money. btw its the only shop within 50mi that can mandrel bend 3" for me
many changes in the making
my favorite part about doing bodywork,.......... bondo bugers
Y'all know custom tubes makes a 3" downpipe back exhaust for the J for $275us ish?
Built, bottled, ready for 11s. 14.446@93.74mph, 1.848 60' N/A.
John VanCuran wrote:........ has any one had their exhaust done by monroe muffler????
I was gonna go there for mine but a friend advised me not to, lol...
My Fquick Page
Owen wrote:Y'all know custom tubes makes a 3" downpipe back exhaust for the J for $275us ish?
150 if you only want the pipes
LE61T PTE6262 Powered 
i never could understand how the skwirl is running 3" n/a and seeing great times, makes me wanna move to 3" with the m45
John VanCuran wrote:hell yes!!! brian has some common sense, i do plan on running a trubo in the future and im not gonna pay to get it done tice nor am i gonna pay for all the parts twice. as for the stainless part, the car is street/track/show and the pipe is getting wraped not to mention i live in NY, one of the worst states for non stainless. to spilner521, as for the valve,...... it does more than create back preasure, and from what you said, it sound like you watched overhaulin a few too many times and dont really know what your talking about. on a N/A motor you DO need back preasure. not to mention the valve also acts like a silencer, thus eliminating the need to buy one or having to get in and out of the car to put the damn thing in or take it out. btw whats with the very gay F&F name????? SPILNER?!?!?!?!? i mean come on..... oh well...... also im planning on an IRS swap so also not worried about the whole clearance issue. oh and the last reason im goin w/ stainless, is b/c the cat,valve and muffler are all........STAINLESS and you CAN'T weld mild steel to stainless. and for the smart ass who's gonna say, "why dont you use clamps??" b/c clamps are a pain in the ass and they can leak.
and as far as wasting money goes, why dont i buy those cheap ass guages and steering wheel from auto zone instead of the apexi el set and the momo steering wheel i have????.................... Quality and function. every thing i buy serves a function its not just there so i can say hey i have the "only turbocharged alero" or that i have the first cav with this or that.
so not that i got all that out of the way,......... does anyone have any answers to my question??? i asked about their welding abilities, not a critique on my setup. not to mention if im not happy, they dont get my money. btw its the only shop within 50mi that can mandrel bend 3" for me
1) You never mentioned going turbo in the future so I just gave you advice on the best exhaust for a close to stock N/A engine.
2) I think it's you who doesn't know what he's talking about. Do a little searching on exhaust systems and maybe, just maybe, you'll find out for yourself that you DON'T need backpressure for an N/A motor. Sounds a little like you watched Overhaulin a little too much. The whole backpressure thing is an old hot rodders myth. You want THE LOWEST AMOUNT of backpressure possible and you want the right size pipe to maintain exhaust VELOCITY for an N/A engine. Yes using the valve will quiet the exhaust, but you could just use resonators and a larger muffler that are all straight through, that way you will have a very free flowing exhaust that is still resonably quiet.
3) As for your plan for the IRS swap, it just so happens my "only turbocharged alero" has an IRS. I also happen to have a 3" exhaust and let me tell you it's very tight...much tighter, in fact, than the Cavalier's rear axle section. So your plan for a IRS will not take care of the space issue for the large exhaust.
4) You say that you're "certified to weld just about anything" yet for some reason you don't know that you CAN weld stainless to mild steel. I have welded stainless to mild steel many times, it's nothing special. My exhaust resonators are stainless welded to mild steel piping.
5) To answer your question: Why not ask the welders at your local Monroe Muffler about their welding abilities. No one here can tell you how well the guys in your hometown can weld.
Next time you call someone out, know what you're talking about before you flame what they have posted. You won't get a whole lot of help from anyone on here if you don't keep negative comments to yourself. Just trying to help.....
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450WHP Turbo Ecotec swap in the works...
BOOSTED wrote:i never could understand how the skwirl is running 3" n/a and seeing great times, makes me wanna move to 3" with the m45
Because with drag racing you spend the majority of the time in high rpm's. The 3" exhaust will out flow a 2.25" or 2.5" at high rpm's any day. The reason for the smaller diameter piping is to maintain velocity for the low-midrange power for types of racing that you stay more in the lower rpm's, like autocross. Plus, the smaller pipe will be quieter than the large pipe.
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450WHP Turbo Ecotec swap in the works...
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product2_10001_10002_757985_-1
there. done. and a 2.5" exhaust ? on a 4 cylinder? Try this. give the tech line a call at dynomax, and ask them for a solution. I bet they wont tell you to run a 2.5 incher... ESPECIALLY with the super high flow 'fart can' mufflers you guys run. Run a 2 or a 2.25 incher. with the zero restriction cat and muffler youre going to run (while still N/A) anything larger in diameter, will kill your low end torque. I know cuz i just did it. Sure, youll have a great highway car, but who races 4 cylinders on highways. matter of fact, who races on highways at all?
do a stock or near stock diameter setup, and just run an electric cutout. we use it in our high horsepower turbo cars all the time with great success. hth's..
BOOSTED wrote:i never could understand how the skwirl is running 3" n/a and seeing great times, makes me wanna move to 3" with the m45
i am.
Chris
'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08
well just to comment on ghetto exhaust shops. i have had them do one job on my car, and they will never touch my car again. i had them remove the res after i changed my muffler, and they cant even weld in a 24" peice of pipe. i had a horribly exhaust leak. in my experiance, its always the small shops that do the best work. everyone i talk to within about 45 min drive knows about "henrys muffler shop"... the best place. when they did my exhaust the first time, for 2.5 all the way back, high flow cat, 20" res and turbo muffler they only charged me 250, and to go back with a diff muffler they only charged me $5 to cut the old one off and weld this one in. just keep an eye out man, thats all i can say
ok mr. spilner what rod did you use to weld stainless to the mild steel and was the stainless 304 or 430??? also hat kind of welder did you use?? oh and as far as the back preasure issue,........ its not just an old hot rod myth, why do you think when an N/A motor gets a 2.75 or 3" exhaust, it loses some power?? ask anyone on the org. you need a certain amout of backpreasure for ANY motor to run properly
many changes in the making
my favorite part about doing bodywork,.......... bondo bugers
John VanCuran wrote:ok mr. spilner what rod did you use to weld stainless to the mild steel and was the stainless 304 or 430??? also hat kind of welder did you use?? oh and as far as the back preasure issue,........ its not just an old hot rod myth, why do you think when an N/A motor gets a 2.75 or 3" exhaust, it loses some power?? ask anyone on the org. you need a certain amout of backpreasure for ANY motor to run properly
Quit while you are ahead John. The backpressure thing is a myth. Scott already explained it to you.
Spilner521 wrote:You want THE LOWEST AMOUNT of backpressure possible and you want the right size pipe to maintain exhaust VELOCITY for an N/A engine.
You run a smaller diameter pipe to maintain a higher exhaust velocity. From what I understand, this draws in more air during the overlap of the cams, which is what provides the low end torque. Backpressure just sufficates the motor. If you go with too small of a pipe, you also sufficate the motor, and if you go to large, the motor doesn't suck air in fast enough. Ask MadJack if you want a 100% accurate and
exhaustingly detailed answer....lol
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"Youth in Asia"...I don't see anything wrong with that.
who is scott??? ok, ill let the backpreasure thing go but it is IMPOSSIBLE to weld stainless directly to mild steel
many changes in the making
my favorite part about doing bodywork,.......... bondo bugers
John VanCuran wrote:who is scott???
The one you keep calling "Spilner"...I just prefer first name bases.
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"Youth in Asia"...I don't see anything wrong with that.
Quote:
ill let the backpreasure thing go but it is IMPOSSIBLE to weld stainless directly to mild steel
i had my obx downpipe welded to regular exhaust tubing in my other car... what is that made of? aluminised steel or mild steel? i watched them weld both of them together with no problems.
ok so according to scott, i can run a 3" headers back exhaust on my ecotec with a hiflow cat no resonator and no valve and actually gain power on the dyno?? ha, ill beleive that when i see it
many changes in the making
my favorite part about doing bodywork,.......... bondo bugers
PJ is currently the fastest recorded NA ECO and he has a 3" header back exhaust...
click
You would most likely not gain much from it because you don't have radical enough of cams to support a higher rev limit.
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"Youth in Asia"...I don't see anything wrong with that.
John VanCuran wrote:who is scott??? ok, ill let the backpreasure thing go but it is IMPOSSIBLE to weld stainless directly to mild steel
Bull@!#$. Its doable with both a MIG and TIG welder... I have both aluminized and stainless bits in my exhaust, should I go take pictures for your dumbass?
John VanCuran wrote:ok so according to scott, i can run a 3" headers back exhaust on my ecotec with a hiflow cat no resonator and no valve and actually gain power on the dyno?? ha, ill beleive that when i see it
That valve will kill horsepower might as well run a 2.25" exhaust since it'll make more power. Some of us have headwork, big cams, and lots of breathing and spin well past 8000rpm... thats where the 2.5-3" exhaust helps. Stock/mild motors will benefit from 2.25", and if you're planning some more aggressive mods, 2.5" will suffice.
Quote:
PJ is currently the fastest recorded NA ECO and he has a 3" header back exhaust...click
Show us pics of your collector PJ, I'm gonna guess there is some 2.25/2.5" pipe in there or you spent way too much modifying a ebay header
Built, bottled, ready for 11s. 14.446@93.74mph, 1.848 60' N/A.
