So I buy a crate engine for my 97 2.2L sunfire. After about 500 miles it started getting low oil pressure at idle. I changed oil weight, and other things with no result. So today I put an oil pump from a 93 cavalier (supposed to flow more) in my car and I am still getting the low oil pressure at idle. we are talking 0psi on a mechanical gauge.

At cold idle, and while driving the oil pressure is great. No low readings period except at warm idle.

The engine is BRAND NEW

any ideas what could be next? While the pan was off i looked to make sure the cam bearings were centered in place, which they were. Could it be because I did not change to new lifters (highly unlikely i know, but I am running out of options here)

The engine is not under warranty, so asking for a replacement is out of the question.

Could be... Did you spin a rod-bearing in the old engine? If so, I'll betcha the same thing that happened to me also happened to you too!

When I got my LN2-powered dime, the first thing it needed was a new crank & bearings. After replacing them, the lifters began ticking so badly people who heard it running for the first time would ask "Is that a diesel?", and I'd have to explain to them the deal. This continued until the lifters finally colapsed, forcing me to gat a new long-block installed. And not for cheap, as I found-out in the end. And for a lack-luster reman at that (Replaced timing-chain set at 35,000mi... But that's another story!).

Why did this happen? Quite simply, it's like this: The LN2's oiling priority is to first feed lifters & cam-bearings, then mains & rods. I know this seems like a crazy way to direct oil, but keep in mind the idea was to feed the lifters first so the engine would operate quietly immediately after cold start-up & prevent noise complaints from buyers. Now, if any metal fragmnets got picked-up by the oiling system... Guess where they were feed to? That's right, the lifters! And now they're contaminated by those fragments & ticking like a diesel, aren't they?

Sadly, if this happened, you only have one choice: Disassembly the block & thuroughly blow-out all the oil gallies, inspect the lifters bores (Mine were frozen in them) & replace the lifters with new ones. And if the bores are flawed, well... Welcome aboard, as they say!

Say... You didn't get this enegine of yours from a shop in Kankakee, did you? If so, I'll be you know by now they went outta business, like I learned after the chain failed on mine. Replaced it since (The chain-set, that is) & it's good as new!


Go beyond the "bolt-on".

Well I got the car from a junkyard, i pulled the old engine and the front main bearing walked into the timing cover and was eaten by the timing chain I turned that engine in as a core. But i did re use the old lifters into this new motor

The car ran fine for 500 miles, then this started happening. Could it still be the lifters?

The oil pan was full of debris and so was the oil pick up screen.

also the lifters do not tick. the engine is so quiet you can not tell that it is running if it is idling.

There was metal shavings in the pan and pickup screen in the new motor? If so that don't sound real good. Maybe there is something that keeps getting stock in on of the oil galleys. Like when cold the oil pushes it out of the way or something but when hot since the oil is denser maybe just goes around what ever it is causing it to not move and thus cutting down oil pressure.

But unlikely you say this is a new motor. Did you brake it in and change the oil at 250 miles or 500 miles. Maybe the filter is stopped up some.

From my experience with low or no pressure at idle. Is main and rod bearings wore out of spec or out of spec period. I'll just name some things that i know it could be. Oil pick up tube not sealed good to the pump, out of spec bearings, spun bearing maybe??, Maybe when the motor was rebuilt they left a oil plug out in the block somewhere if there even is any on a 2200 inside of the block. But that would probably caring no pessure at idle when cold either.

It just sounds like what you thought that was a rebuilt or crate motor which ever it might have been. Might not have been. If you baught a crate motor or a rebuilt it should have a warranty why doens't yours if you don't mind me asking?

No there was metal shavings in the old motor. No problems at all from the new motor, except the oil pressure light comes on, and a mechanical gauge reads low. the car doesnt act up at all


The reason there is no warranty is because a law suit would be involved to get it replaced and its not worth it to me.

Yeah I changed the oil every 100 miles almost to be safe, nothing started acting up till 500 miles, I checked the bearings today as i changed the oil pump everything looks brand spanking new. i dont get it

The warranty is 12,000 miles or 1 year. But I lost my job at the auto parts store the day i bought the engine because they thought i was buying it for someone else. But would not let me prove to them i owned a sunfire. So they will not honor the warranty, i would have to sue them to get another engine. (long story short)

ok well take it to a different one then than the one u worked at.

Well I tried, I called the engine manufacturer, and they said that my warranty was never registered with them. I am not worried about getting another engine, just fixing this one. Im done with those idiots that dont know what they are doing lol

The point is it sounds like the motor is trashed that is what i was getting at. Something can't be right to only have 500 miles on a new motor and get debris in the pan plus have no oil pressure at idle.

Also wondering why did you even check the oil pressure to begin with???? Was it knocking, ticking what??? Also where are you checking the pressure?

O and also i don't think lifters would cause it to have 0psi at idle when warm unless the bore was to big for the lifters

There was no debris in the pan on the new motor just the old one. The only thing that caused me to check the pressure to begin with was the light coming on. No knocking ticking, like i said earlier the car runs like a dream, and is strong running. I was checking the pressure from the oil sending unit hole (just removed the stock sensor) and then i even bought 2 new sensors in case one was bad.

You can not tell anything is wrong with the car except for the fact that the oil pressure light comes on ( red oil can ) at warm idle.

One person told me their light came on for no reason for a period of time and then quit coming on after a while.

Im about to just unplug the sensor and ignore it and just see what happens. Only reason i got the car and bought the engine was to boost the car. And this is getting irritating chasing some phantom

try a new gauge or check for a kink in the mechanical gauge line.

I don't believe you should have anything that low. I had like 20psi at idle on my 2200.

ok that helps i will tell you this from my experience. I pulled the 2200 out of my 99 fire that i just did a 2.4 swap in. I then baught a 2000 fire with the 2200 3 speed with 81,000 miles on the clock for $300 but the front main came out and more less seized the motor.

I took the motor out and put the 99 2200 in the 2000 well needless to say the damn oil light was on too. Came on after i drove it for about 20 mins. I was wtf now so i checked the plug and was fine. Pulled the valve cover to check to see if oil was pumping and it was so i said the h3ll with it and flogged the heck out of it. The light then started to flicker after about 100 more miles then got to the point where it would come on if i floored it and let off.

And well it did that for about two days and magically no more light been that way for about 2 week now. Pull the valve cover off and see if its pumpin oil up top and you should be able to reuse the gasket as i did. If there is oil in the top of the rockers wipe it out and start it see if the rockers fill back up and you can watch it run down if it does. I wouldn't worry about it.

It could be the wiring for the sensor or something in the oil that is blocking off the oil for the factory sensor and you mechanical gauge. Thanks for clearing that up wasn't sure if you were talking about the other motor or the new. But the way you talked it was the new one

I do have a question, this car in question is an automatic, i read in the Haynes book that the oil filters had a filter extender? My oil filter goes straight to the block, and my oil pan gasket set did have a round gasket with three bolt holes..
Maybe my car was missing something in that area?

I also thought that maybe the stud came loose that the oil filter screws onto (because i had to swap the stud over from the other engine), but if it had i would see low oil pressure most of the time. I think tomorrow i might try a electric autometer gauge and see what it reads.

The gauge that i was using only cost 10$ but it worked fine on my buddies 2.2 cavalier

Also it only takes a tap of the gas to get rid of the light

hmm

Im thinking about the gallery plug (the pressed in one) that is behind the timing set at the end of the lifter gallery (the same gallery the oil pressure sender goes into) It has a hole (I believe its 0.063") that is meant to simply squirt oil onto the chain and tensioner...if that was left out thats a 1/2 hole in the block thats simply dumping the oil into the lifter feed bore and right out across the timing chain back into the pan.

I would think that might be an issue with low oil pressure and you get just enough to trip off the light when you rev it because the M93 is a higher volume pump.

Thoughts?

The gasket your talking about with the oil pan is for a relocation kit. No such kit came on cavaliers and sunfires stock...it was something for other models the LN2 was put in.

With an M93 on a brand new built motor cold start I get about 70lbs of oil pressure...warm at 500rpm idle (im auto) it drops to around 20 WOT I get 80-86 warm and cold...well...I dont beat the @!#$ out of it cold...all I know is that it eclipses 85psi at about 2500.





Buildin' n' Boostin for 08' - Alex Richards

Yeah but see a 1/2" hole will cause an all around drop in oil pressure. I got great pressure, just warm idle is when its tripping the light. Plus the pump i have is a M98 (you might have meant that, or the m93 might be a different pump?)

Im going to warm her up and pull the valve cover and see what shes doing. And maybe try an autometer gauge instead of a sun pro one.

I see no reason why the light should be on, considering there is no ticking or knocking

Also i could just barely tap the light on the other oil pump, installing the m98 pump did nothing for my problem.

If there were metal shavings in the pan & oil pick-up of the old engine, I'll guarantee you they got into the lifters that were in it.

I should include that I also had an oil-pressure issue for a long period (Before the collapse), I was forced to run a higher viscosity of oil (Like 15w-40. Yeha, that's right... DIESEL-truck oil!) just to cure it.

The galley-plug with the hole in it behind the timing-chain was supposedly meant to bleed air outta the lifter-feed galley at cold-start to prevent cavitation, which would cause lifter tick.

Say... Did the engine you bought come with a new oil-pump & pick-up screen, or did you re-use the old ones after trying to clean them of debris first before you got the M98?


Go beyond the "bolt-on".

Well the last guy to work on my car cross threaded a spark plug into the head. so when it gets tune up time i have to pull the head off again to have it fixed so i will install new lifters for sure. But i still dont understand why it waited 500 miles to act up when the lifters were in there to start with.


It is so confusing because the car runs great, im almost convinced the wiring is bad. Because if it was a bearing or galley plug or lifter, the problem would be constant, and not just at idle. Im going to try using a Autometer electric gauge today and see how she does. Hopefully ill get an accurate reading.

yes i meant m98...

sorry.

the plug behind the timing set...

it did'nt work...lol



Buildin' n' Boostin for 08' - Alex Richards

Well this will be my final post on this. After today I put a quart of lucas oil stabilizer (synthetic) and took it to an empty road and pegged the gas redlined a couple gears, and not to mention alot of praying and now the light hasnt been on for almost 30 miles of constant driving.

Pretty sure it was a blocked oil hole somewhere, thanks for all of the ideas and help guys

lol i told you that was my case too for some reason..

I should add that the problem I had worked much the same way. Plenty of pressure cold, but once it got hot... Like I said, a thicker oil helped, and thats pretty-much what Lucas Stabilizer does: Thicken the oil. Just to let you know.


Go beyond the "bolt-on".