Hot Rod

I have asked many times on here about using the 918 or even the 915 comp spring and retainer. What you have done sounds trick for sure.

As for the rockers, i did figure that they would be a great deal. Hell I have them laying around if I could make them work, what the hell what why not.

The problem I am running into in my about post, would be solved by the taller valves, but could i use a longer push rod instead. Becuase ( i know it may sound half ass) but I dont really want to pull the head to do this, and if i do i am going to do what you did. The stuff is so cheap and I have most of the come stuff laying around.

Hot Rod,

Sounds like you've got a good plan so far. I have a couple of concerns, you might want to keep an eye on.

First is the seat pressure on the 26918 springs. 130lbs is a little on the high side for a hydraulic (roller) lifter, but the pressure at the max lift is still in a good range. I know Comp desigend these springs for the LS1, which is a hydaulic roller motor also, but it still looks a little high. IMO I think the 26915 springs would probably be a better choice. Make sure the seat pressure doesn't compress the plunger on the lifter.

The other thing is the pushrods. You said you are getting some custom made, thats good. You will need hardend pushrods for use with the guide plates. The problem arises with the longer valve stem length. You will need longer pushrods. If you don't have them, you might want to look at getting a set of adjustable checking pushrods. This will be the most accurate way of checking the pushrod length you will need. Another way to find the length you will need is to take the difference of the of the valve stem lenghts, less the amount the head and/or block were surfaced, and add it to the lenght of the stock 2200 pushrods. This should work, but personally, I'd still want to check the legnth with the adjustable pushrods.

These are just a couple of concerns, that if you haven't already taken them into account, that would need to be addressed. Other than that, sounds like you should have a good tight motor. I seen no problems with turning that motor to 7200+ RPM, which is damn good for any hydraulic OHV motor!

Good Luck!

Yeah, after i bought the crane pushrods, i realized that with the taller valves comes the need for taller pushrods, the pushrods have to be lengthened as much as the valve was lengthlened to keep the geometry, but yes i am getting some adjustable pushrods to check all my geometry and make sure all is good, cheap insurance to make sure everything is right.


As far as Seat pressure, 130 will be fiine, and not casue any problems, i plan on running a Hi Po lifter, probably the LS1 lifter, as it is VERY similair to the stock lifter, havent had a chance to check and make sure its good to go, its the same diameter, just need to make sure its the same length, as this will affect pushrod length.


As far as the comp retainers, they will not work well with the 2200 valves, they are designed to use the stock LS1 valve locks, and the LS1 uses 8mm valves and the 2200 uses 7mm valves, and the stock 2200 valve locks wont fit the retainers either, already tried that route. I got some del west super 7 retainers and locks and the locks are for a bead lock groove, which is the stock setup. The retainers will have to be turned down to fit the top of the sprinig, but not a big deal for a good machine shop.

And as far as being cheap, well im not sure thats a true statement, they are more expensive than the crane rockers you can get from Howell, which i have the same rockers on my car now, i originally wanted a way to get more lift out of the stock cam, and i liek to do things that are different. Should be quit trick and make power when its all done.


Mike

1992 GMC Sonoma GT #492. Oh, Its just a stock V6!

1999 Cavalier Coupe, daily driver, 2200/M5. Mods and pics are in my registry.

Fully built turbo 2200 in progress, should be installed very soon. Will post details as they happen.
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Ryan Martin wrote:Hot Rod

I have asked many times on here about using the 918 or even the 915 comp spring and retainer. What you have done sounds trick for sure.

As for the rockers, i did figure that they would be a great deal. Hell I have them laying around if I could make them work, what the hell what why not.

The problem I am running into in my about post, would be solved by the taller valves, but could i use a longer push rod instead. Becuase ( i know it may sound half ass) but I dont really want to pull the head to do this, and if i do i am going to do what you did. The stuff is so cheap and I have most of the come stuff laying around.

Well if you just increase the length of the pushrod you will change the geometry and might have binding and that leads to broken parts. If you get longer valves get longer pushrods.

But you can install these rockers with the stock cam and lifters, i would upgrade to the crane pushrods so you dont take a chance on bending the stockers, and the stock springs are good to go as well, but you will need the guideplates, See the attached pics of the ones i made for mine, i just got them to the almost finished stage today, all they need is a good coat of high heat paint and they are done.






Heres a link to my gallery on my local clubs forum.

More Photos here


Mike

1992 GMC Sonoma GT #492. Oh, Its just a stock V6!

1999 Cavalier Coupe, daily driver, 2200/M5. Mods and pics are in my registry.

Fully built turbo 2200 in progress, should be installed very soon. Will post details as they happen.
Support the site that supports your habit, Go Premium.

Ok, lets try this again, it seems all of my pics are to large to be posted on the forum.

Hopefully this works, if not then just click on the link and it goes to my galery, then go to the gallery for the cavy and they are in there.

EDIT: nope still to large a pic, ill have to work on getting them scaled down.


Mike

1992 GMC Sonoma GT #492. Oh, Its just a stock V6!

1999 Cavalier Coupe, daily driver, 2200/M5. Mods and pics are in my registry.

Fully built turbo 2200 in progress, should be installed very soon. Will post details as they happen.
Support the site that supports your habit, Go Premium.

any news on this?



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Premium sinc 6-17-04

anything new for this?

newbie question here but after reading all this i wonder what would happen if you ran 1.7 intake and 1.75 exhaust? anyone care to tell me why that is a bad idea. is the ratio to far apart? would it be counterproductive.

for arguments sake say it was a 98+ 2200

thanks for whatever info comes up.

Mixing ratios is generally to make up for a shortcoming in the flow path. If the exhaust flow isn't as good as intake, then a little more lift can be generated at the exhaust valve to try and help. Just picking some numbers like 1.7 / 1.75 and throwing them on might give a good improvement over stock performance, but won't do anything to tell you if you've got an optimum setup. If you're buying parts, it's probably less expensive to buy all 8 of the same ratio than to try mixing and matching.

-->Slow

wow this is awesome info

I'm definetly watching this carefully... if I ever redo my top end (which I probably will) I'll switch to the LS1 roller rockers with that sick ratio and oversized valves


definetly watching this one!

Well you can mix and match ratios, but you wouldnt want to do that unless you had flow data on the head to see that a different ratio was actually beneficial to the program.


I also posted ealier about posibly using the LSI lifter, and THAT WILL NOT WORK, it is alot taller than the stock 2200 lifter, and wont fit into the lifter retainer witho9ut binding up, so you only have a few choices for lifters on this engine, either stock replacement, or JBP offers a set of HI PO lifters, that are just stock lifters they have rebuilt with stiffer springs and plungers inside to resisit pump up at high RPM. But they are kinda pricey, so at this point im not sure what im going to do for lifters.

I was going to take the head to the machine shop next week and get it all done and flowed, but i had a minor mishap with my car last wendsday and rearended a chevy avalance, and my cars at the body shop getting fixed, so i had to spend the money there instead of the machine shop.

But hopefully in the next month or so ill be able to get the head and block there and get all the machine work done and then its back home for final assembly.


Mike

1992 GMC Sonoma GT #492. Oh, Its just a stock V6!

1999 Cavalier Coupe, daily driver, 2200/M5. Mods and pics are in my registry.

Sombody Needs to Make me a cool Sig, Because im Sig Challenged!

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Im premium since January, but why doesnt it say that?????

^ sorry to hear about the car. i hate it when the unexpected comes and rapes you of your money. but whatcha dunna do.

Quote:

at this point im not sure what im going to do for lifters.

How much checking have you done of lifter sizes? Can you get dimensions for the stock 2.2 lifter? I have some smallblock lifters here which I can measure. They're available from GM with the same check valve and spring setup as the LS1 lifter and they're not too expensive in sets of 16.

Also, you might be able to machine the lifter body to increase lifter bleed down at low rpm. It would help slightly with anti-pump up and would also mask the cam a little at low rpm. Think Rhoads or Crane variable duration lifters.

-->Slow

pushrods wrote:^ sorry to hear about the car. i hate it when the unexpected comes and rapes you of your money. but whatcha dunna do.

Well thanks and the car is getting fixed shouod have it back in a few eeks or so.



As far as how good did i check well i had both lifters in my hands side by side, and the LS1 lifter is simply to long, the 2200 uses a short lifter but i havent measured it it and checked websites looking for a match, will be doing more research into that this week.


Mike

1992 GMC Sonoma GT #492. Oh, Its just a stock V6!

1999 Cavalier Coupe, daily driver, 2200/M5. Mods and pics are in my registry.

Sombody Needs to Make me a cool Sig, Because im Sig Challenged!

Support the site that supports your habit, Go Premium.
Im premium since January, but why doesnt it say that?????

Quote:

As far as how good did i check well i had both lifters in my hands side by side, and the LS1 lifter is simply to long, the 2200 uses a short lifter but i havent measured it it and checked websites looking for a match, will be doing more research into that this week.

I should have asked "how many different lifters have you looked at?"

I'll try to find some #'s for the smallblock lifters.

-->Slow

Well the LSI, and all 87+ Hydralic roller lifter engines V8 and V6 all use the same lifter from the factory. The 4 cylinders are basically the same lifter only shorter. Not sure if we are going to find one that will work.





Mike

1992 GMC Sonoma GT #492. Oh, Its just a stock V6!

1999 Cavalier Coupe, daily driver, 2200/M5. Mods and pics are in my registry.

Sombody Needs to Make me a cool Sig, Because im Sig Challenged!

Support the site that supports your habit, Go Premium.
Im premium since January, but why doesnt it say that?????

I tought Rhoads sp? lifter made aftermarket lifters for us? I'll have to look into that after work today

Going to revive this because I am following with interest. I'm currently researching in order to build a streetable all motor 2200 with somewhere in the neighborhood of 200 whp. Anyone found anything else out about the lifters?

Also, and forgive me if this sounds stupid, but i want to make sure I'm following correctly: the stock LS1 rockers will work on a 2200 with or without guideplates? And the longer valve with a stiffer spring is necessary, correct? Along with longer pushrods? I swear I'm not retarded but I want to make sure I'm getting this right... there's so much great info here i'm not sure that I'm absorbing it correctly.




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Jersey Jay 1.8T wrote:Going to revive this because I am following with interest. I'm currently researching in order to build a streetable all motor 2200 with somewhere in the neighborhood of 200 whp. Anyone found anything else out about the lifters?

Also, and forgive me if this sounds stupid, but i want to make sure I'm following correctly: the stock LS1 rockers will work on a 2200 with or without guideplates? And the longer valve with a stiffer spring is necessary, correct? Along with longer pushrods? I swear I'm not retarded but I want to make sure I'm getting this right... there's so much great info here i'm not sure that I'm absorbing it correctly.

Well no, you cant run the stock LS1 rockers on the 2200 head, the geometry wil be way off. You can run either one of the Comp Cams Pro Mag rockers, there LS1 studs and springs, but to use the spring you have to have more installed height, which means longer valves and longer pushrods. Im not sure if there is enough material to machine the spring seats down enough to be able to gain .200 in installed height and still be able to use the stock length valves and pushrods. The only way to tell for sure is to have a junk head machined down .200 on the spring seats and then have the valves guide machined down .200 and see how thick the spring seat was after you were done. Either sonic check or x-ray since the head is junk cut it in half and measure. If there is enough material this will be the easiest way, but i dont have a junk head to find out on, so im just going with longer valves, which is just as easy if your replacing them as they are all the same price.

You may also be able to use the LS1 Crane Gold Race rockers, but i believe they are more expensive.

As for the lifters, at this point i havent found any hi performance lifter that will drop in except for the ones JBP sells.

I have also been searching for a better/stronger timing chain, but have come up empty handed. Im going to call JBP in the morning and ask them about the chain and the lifters. Ill post the info.


Mike

1992 GMC Sonoma GT #492. Oh, Its just a stock V6!

1999 Cavalier Coupe, daily driver, 2200/M5. Mods and pics are in my registry.

Sombody Needs to Make me a cool Sig, Because im Sig Challenged!

Support the site that supports your habit, Go Premium.
Im premium since January, but why doesnt it say that?????

Quote:

I have also been searching for a better/stronger timing chain, but have come up empty handed. Im going to call JBP in the morning and ask them about the chain and the lifters. Ill post the info.

If you can find one, the 1982 1.8L engine used a double roller timing chain. When GM was writing information about building the 1.8/ 2.0 OHV for racing, they recommended using the '82 parts on the later engine. There are a few small modifications which are described in my Chevrolet Power manual

Part nos needed:

14036018	Timing Chain

14026019	Cam Sprocket

14036020	Crank Sprocket

14036021	Tensioner Assembly

14036022	Bearing Cap Stud

14036024	Bolt

14033224	Damper assembly

373911		Bolt

11502811	Bolt

I'll get more info if ineeded
-->Slow

Are you should this will work on a late model 2.2/2200?

If so get me all the info you can as im very interested.


Mike

1992 GMC Sonoma GT #492. Oh, Its just a stock V6!

1999 Cavalier Coupe, daily driver, 2200/M5. Mods and pics are in my registry.

Sombody Needs to Make me a cool Sig, Because im Sig Challenged!

Support the site that supports your habit, Go Premium.
Im premium since January, but why doesnt it say that?????

Well i checked www.gmpartsdirect.com and none of those part numbers worked, but i wasnt expecting them to, just the first place i check.

I pulled up Autozones website and looked up an 82 cavalier with the only engine being a 1.8L and they show to have the timing set made by Dynagear for 35 bucks or Hi Tech for 65 bucks and that gets you the chain and both sprockets.

and just the chain from Dynagear for 55 bucks.

They also listed the tensioner for like 23 bucks and the damper for like 9 bucks, and i believe they showed it to all be in stock.

Now the other things you listed were just bolts, which im sure i can find bolts that will work, but what is that bearing cap stud??

I need to know for sure if you can tell this will work or n0ot, if so ill go down and buy what i can get and start test fitting everything to make sure and can snal a few photos for everyone to see.

The prices arent to bad, and if its truly a double roller than it shoudl be plenty durable, i may just stop by there in the morning and have them pull it to just verify the double roller part.

Thanks for the info BTW.




Mike

1992 GMC Sonoma GT #492. Oh, Its just a stock V6!

1999 Cavalier Coupe, daily driver, 2200/M5. Mods and pics are in my registry.

Sombody Needs to Make me a cool Sig, Because im Sig Challenged!

Support the site that supports your habit, Go Premium.
Im premium since January, but why doesnt it say that?????

Mike,
Those Timing sets are the same as the newer models. The newer timing sets work on the older model('82) 1.8L, but if you can find a real '82 roller timing set you do have to do some machine work to make it fit. The mods are in an older Chevy Power Guide(5th edition I Believe? The one with the2.0L build up), they wern't too difficult, any competant machine shop should be able to do them.
If my soon-to-be Ex hadn't sold mine for her habbit, I would have scanned it and sent you a copy of the mods!

Yes, MadJack, 5th or 6th edition. I have it, and would scan it except there's no room to set up the scanner on my desk! I was typing the instructions for making the "fabricated boss" which goes with these parts when I fell asleep at the keyboard! My waking hours are roughly 5:00 am to 10:00 pm, and if I stay up to 11:00 I'm just plain done.

HotRodV6, I'll finish typing the instructions tonight or tomorrow night, then post 'em. I'll dig out some 1982 service information and look for pictures of the stud, timing chain assembly, & etc. Don't forget to call a dealer and ask if any of those part numbers change to a current number, and to get the part number history if theres no current #. Then hit partsvoice.com, go to "locate parts" and start entering your part numbers. You can sometimes find dealers listing discontinued parts by an old part number on that site.


Good luck.
-->Slow