this has probably been asked a million times, but i cant find it in the threads, but what is the real difference and is there a substantiol difference?

NO

Cold air, makes more power. Short ram usually has a better throttle response to it. I recommend going wth a short ram, and making a cold air ducto to brin cooler air to the filter.



FU Tuning

oh god i know there are threads out there, i'm just too lazy to search for you.

cold air = longer pipe, more room to travel, less velocity. about the only gains you get on cold air are in really cold weather and in your upper RPM range.

short ram = shorter pipe of course, more velocity, low RPM gains, but less dense air and it stays heated up from your engine bay.

personally i think the difference between short ram and cold air is the difference between non intercooled and intercooled turbo kits.




I was a retard, and now I'm permanently banned.

theres not a whole lot of difference, "cold air" is a sales gimmic. it costs more and has more of a chance of sucking in water and really messing up your engine. when driving your engine bay isn't that hot anyways...at least not where your intake filter goes. so the temp difference between intakes is probably about 3 or 4 degrees.....not gonna make a difference....................i'd save your cash and get a short ram intake


You'll never touch God's hand
You'll never taste God's breath
Because you'll never see the second coming
Life's too short to be focused on insanity
I've seen the ways of God
I'll take the devil any day
Hail Satan

(slayer, skeleton christ, 2006)

mikec2003 wrote:costs more and has more of a chance of sucking in water and really messing up your engine. when driving your engine bay isn't that hot anyways...at least not where your intake filter goes.

next time you go driving around, shut the car off and put your hand on the hood. it'll be hot. it's very very hot inside your engine bay.

secondly, you won't hydrolock unless you submerge your front end in water. my filter is less than 5" from the ground and i have NEVER had any problems. that's why you get a bypass valve that will take care of that water if it ever gets in (unless the whole filter just gets water all over it)




I was a retard, and now I'm permanently banned.

John Higgins wrote:I recommend going wth a short ram, and making a cold air ducto to brin cooler air to the filter.

If you do that then wouldn't it just then have the properties or whatever of a cold air and not have good throttle response? Just thought I'd ask.

Spotabee Racing wrote:

mikec2003 wrote:costs more and has more of a chance of sucking in water and really messing up your engine. when driving your engine bay isn't that hot anyways...at least not where your intake filter goes.

next time you go driving around, shut the car off and put your hand on the hood. it'll be hot. it's very very hot inside your engine bay.

secondly, you won't hydrolock unless you submerge your front end in water. my filter is less than 5" from the ground and i have NEVER had any problems. that's why you get a bypass valve that will take care of that water if it ever gets in (unless the whole filter just gets water all over it)

the bay gets hot i know, but the air coming into the filter isn't much temp diffrence from cold or short ram intakes

and with those bypass valves.....spend more money on an already ripoff priced intake....no thanks, i'll stick with a short ram

either way....the 1 or 2 hp difference does not justify the price difference....."cold air intakes" are a ripoff....too much money for not enough gain


You'll never touch God's hand
You'll never taste God's breath
Because you'll never see the second coming
Life's too short to be focused on insanity
I've seen the ways of God
I'll take the devil any day
Hail Satan

(slayer, skeleton christ, 2006)

^^no because its still the shorter pipe. it'll have the same velocity and flow properties of the short ram, but will bring in cool, fresh air through the duct. it would actually work pretty good if you had it set up right. if you do set it up this way, i'd recomend putting some sort of heat shield somewhere around the filter, or between the filter and the rest of the engine bay, to protect it from engine heat and to get the full effect of the cool air ducted in.


_________________________________________
450WHP Turbo Ecotec swap in the works...

there is no difference. when its 95 degrees outside that so called "Cold Air" intake will be sucking in that 95 degree air. and also as we all know (or some of us anyway) the pavement heats up when its hot out. hotter than the air temp. and that heat rises. and where is the filter on this so called "Cold Air" intake?? near the ground. so it will also be sucking in that heat from the pavement.
peple see "Cold Air" intake and automatically think its better. when its not



Im a Xbox 360 fanboy...and damn proud of it!!

check out RD FABS good deals on awsome intakes.

Must i say it again ,its not called a short ram unless it has a ram air hood or a ram air front grill like a grand am,so their is nt really no air circulating under da hood otherwise it would say ur car has ram air.So a wai (short ram intake if u want to call it) take da hot air inside engine bay ,also if u notice ur radiator is blocking the air from outside to come in.So drive really fast on da thru way,den get off da da thru way ,go in a parking lot and pop ur hood open ,u could feel da hot air hitting ur face.

As for a cai u can relocate da filter to get air outside da car ,also put ur hand outside da window when ur driving fast,dont u feel ur hand getting colder da faster u go.Also heat rises so u would get da heated air trapped directly under ur hood which is where ur wai filter gets its air because da filter is placed behind its batterie

if you say so DA dude!



Im a Xbox 360 fanboy...and damn proud of it!!

Cool/Cold air vs. Short ram/Warm air......

Outside air temp will NEVER reach under hood temps. Even on a 95deg. day, drive down the road, and hold your arm out the window....... the air feels cooler doesnt it????

Only way you can tell, use a scan tool, strap on a "Short Ram" intake, and go for a ride..... 25-30mins..... Note the temps on the IAT sensor.....

Now strap on a "Cold Air" intake........ go for another 25-30min ride..... Note the temps...... I GARENTEE at least a 10deg. difference on a HOT day..... and 20-25 on a cooler day. (already did this test)

Now the only down fall is WATER and Intake length...... both of which can be solved.

Spotabee Racing wrote:
personally i think the difference between short ram and cold air is the difference between non intercooled and intercooled turbo kits.

Smartest thing I have ever seen you type.......

mikec2003 wrote:theres not a whole lot of difference, "cold air" is a sales gimmic. it costs more and has more of a chance of sucking in water and really messing up your engine. when driving your engine bay isn't that hot anyways...at least not where your intake filter goes. so the temp difference between intakes is probably about 3 or 4 degrees.....not gonna make a difference....................i'd save your cash and get a short ram intake

You my friend, need to do some research, before posting....... back to the newbs forum with you.

Your filter is in the REAR of the engine bay...... closer to the EXHAUST manifold...... where there is LESS AIR CIRCULATION.

As for sucking in water, if your dumb enough to drive through enough water for you to suck it up, you deserve what ever you get...... AEM makes a wonderfull bypass....... and read above, I've proven its more then 3-4 degrees.....

I wish I was a mod..... half these posts would get moved to the NEWB forum.



SPD RCR Z - '02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT - '04 GTO 305whp
W41 BOI - '78 Buick Opel Isuzu W41 Swap

SpeedRacerZ wrote:Cool/Cold air vs. Short ram/Warm air......

Outside air temp will NEVER reach under hood temps. Even on a 95deg. day, drive down the road, and hold your arm out the window....... the air feels cooler doesnt it????

Only way you can tell, use a scan tool, strap on a "Short Ram" intake, and go for a ride..... 25-30mins..... Note the temps on the IAT sensor.....

Now strap on a "Cold Air" intake........ go for another 25-30min ride..... Note the temps...... I GARENTEE at least a 10deg. difference on a HOT day..... and 20-25 on a cooler day. (already did this test)

Now the only down fall is WATER and Intake length...... both of which can be solved.

Spotabee Racing wrote:
personally i think the difference between short ram and cold air is the difference between non intercooled and intercooled turbo kits.

Smartest thing I have ever seen you type.......

mikec2003 wrote:theres not a whole lot of difference, "cold air" is a sales gimmic. it costs more and has more of a chance of sucking in water and really messing up your engine. when driving your engine bay isn't that hot anyways...at least not where your intake filter goes. so the temp difference between intakes is probably about 3 or 4 degrees.....not gonna make a difference....................i'd save your cash and get a short ram intake

You my friend, need to do some research, before posting....... back to the newbs forum with you.

Your filter is in the REAR of the engine bay...... closer to the EXHAUST manifold...... where there is LESS AIR CIRCULATION.

As for sucking in water, if your dumb enough to drive through enough water for you to suck it up, you deserve what ever you get...... AEM makes a wonderfull bypass....... and read above, I've proven its more then 3-4 degrees.....

I wish I was a mod..... half these posts would get moved to the NEWB forum.

I agree with speedracerz for the most part. I will agree intake temps will be better with a cold air intake. After my own testing, as well as friends with cold air, I believe a warm air intake with a cold air duct is best. This is my OPINION. I can go to the track on a cool day or a hot day and run back to back and my car will run within a tenth of the other runs all day. I do havea cold air duct, just some dryer ducting connected to the mess in my WW kit, and goes up into the engine bay right under my filter.
Speaking of this time to do some work on that because it has taken a beating.



FU Tuning

Spotabee Racing wrote:personally i think the difference between short ram and cold air is the difference between non intercooled and intercooled turbo kits.

what the hell ? it's far from that kind of difference. If you run a monster n/a machine with a short ram there shouldn't be much difference than if you had a cai (or any difference at all), but a turbo monster without an intercooler probably won't run more than an hour.

So I say, bad comparison.



15.958 @ 88.201 stock, still getting @!#$ty launches...

i just can't see a cold air intake providing enough hp difference to justify its price difference, especially when you have to get that stupid bypass valve extra..........untill someone can show me proof of a substantial difference between short ram vs cold air intakes, i'll stand by my beleifes that cold air intake is just like ram air........a stupid sales gimmic. because ive had both intakes before and didn't notice any difference.....except the short ram seemed to have better throttle response


You'll never touch God's hand
You'll never taste God's breath
Because you'll never see the second coming
Life's too short to be focused on insanity
I've seen the ways of God
I'll take the devil any day
Hail Satan

(slayer, skeleton christ, 2006)

largest difference i;ve ever gotten between a long ram and a short ram was 7-10 degrees and that was traffic. on avg it was 4-5 degrees. if you design something right, it will work right was the advice i got from lingenfelter performance when i asked their opinion on reading and on designing stuff.

been through 11 intakes so far, and quite a few 2-300$ ones.

not really much a difference. some prettier than others...short rams offer better throttle response, and air does circulate up under the hood, especially while driving. these cars were NOT built with aerodynamics in mind.

i;ve driven from baltimore to reston, virginia, through traffic, highway, and stop lights in the middle of summer, to pahtcubs house, opened the hood when i got there in 90 degree temps, and everyone who felt the pipe noticed that it was significantly cooler than the rest of the engine bay, even with a header. stock hood as well. all with a short ram. air temp was mid 70;s according to the guage.

oddly enough seeing 77 degree air temps with a short ram, under a closed hood in 90 degree heat.... you do the math.

instead of a scan tool, i;ve used intake air temp sensors. that way i could move it around to 3-4 areas of the pipe to see what different lengths in and out make a difference.

sticking your hand out, which has pores, which natural oils come out of???? of course it feels cool when you hand has a natural moisture to it. anything thats wet will feel cooler. decent analogy or air hitting an object, but off analogy to use since skin carries moisture. most filters tucked away in the fender well are also closed in by the wheel liner, so its not really getting a direct hit of air either.

on people who run without the wheel liner, then it is, but you are prob also taking on alot of trash and debris being the location of the wheel. clean filter flows more air. dirty filters filter more stuff, but think about when someone farts and you bury your face in a pillow to avoid the smell. filter more, but flow less air. and the thicker the barrier the slower air goes, and also the more tendency to heat up.



over all the difference in power between the two....similar.


the main advantage of a long ram is more material (pipe) to create a better resonance with. where you can tune ANY intake to work better within a certain rpm range. the more pipe you have the better the chance you can cause the hum effect or to RESOANTE to work in a specified range.



i honestly believe J higgins is hitting the nail on the head. and i mean like BLAH-DOW hittin it.

reason being, take a look at alot of SCCA cars. this is just from a store bought car modified to be competitive perspective. most are running short rams. some have air boxes setup to isolate the filter, if in fact your underhood temps are REALLY extreme...

those who DONT have a header, have VERY low underhood temps compared to those with headers.

but with that being said, you can sheild an exhaust manifolds heat from any area with the amount of products DEI, THERMOTEC, COOL-IT have out there for batteries, intakes, etc....

that or simply build your own heat sheild for under 20$ 5$ if you dont want a plexi glass window

you may get a cooler temp with a long ram, but the amount of bends, and distance it takes to get the air in the engine, pretty much can or will negate gains. remember, suck squish, bang, blow....

whats harder sucking through a 3 inch long straw or a 10 inch long?

I got tired of reading all these but heres my opinion...

CAI are dumb... you're not getting "cold" air

WAI work.

EVERYONE bitchs "Ooooh well its hot under ur hood... park somewhere and open ur hood and u'll get hot" WELL NO @!#$!!! when your car is sitting still in a parking lot there is no air circualating. When you are driving the air circualates quite well.

And what an idiot... whoever said "the radiator blocks air" umm... if your radioater blocks air from getting into ur enging bay i suggest you get a new one.


hello
NEO WAS HERE
I have become too lazy to create a new sig.
you're reading my line-break
<A HREF="http://www.neo-j.741.com/">Check my website</A>

i think i must of explained the whole warm air vs cold air thing a dozen times this week alone. mostly in AIM convos.
and im about tired of doing that



Im a Xbox 360 fanboy...and damn proud of it!!

maybe u should copy and save it to a word document so you can load it back up when ya need it. lol


1997 pontiac sunfire
2.2 OHV 2.4l coming soon
2.25 inch custom exhaust
WAI
RK Underdrive pulley
50 shot of NX
pacesetter header

once again a topic thoroughly covered before I could even comment... -.-


Premium since Tuesday, May 24, 2005 10:19 Pacific time. Support the .org people!

Dam-it Muffins (Event) wrote:not really much a difference. some prettier than others...short rams offer better throttle response, and air does circulate up under the hood, especially while driving. these cars were NOT built with aerodynamics in mind.

i've driven from baltimore to reston, virginia, through traffic, highway, and stop lights in the middle of summer, to pahtcubs house, opened the hood when i got there in 90 degree temps, and everyone who felt the pipe noticed that it was significantly cooler than the rest of the engine bay, even with a header. stock hood as well. all with a short ram. air temp was mid 70's according to the guage.

oddly enough seeing 77 degree air temps with a short ram, under a closed hood in 90 degree heat.... you do the math.

Moving air has a nasty habit of cooling metal objects....... odd how that works. As for the 77 degree intake temps....... maybe its the difference between a 2.2 and a 2.4....... you be the judge of that.

Dam-it Muffins (Event) wrote:those who DONT have a header, have VERY low underhood temps compared to those with headers.

but with that being said, you can sheild an exhaust manifolds heat from any area with the amount of products DEI, THERMOTEC, COOL-IT have out there for batteries, intakes, etc....

This is true, headers do raise under hood temps........ and my tests on the Warm Air vs. Cool Air intakes was done with a stock manifold, with stock heat shield in place.... on a 85+ degree day.

Dam-it Muffins (Event) wrote:
sticking your hand out, which has pores, which natural oils come out of???? of course it feels cool when you hand has a natural moisture to it. anything thats wet will feel cooler. decent analogy or air hitting an object, but off analogy to use since skin carries moisture. most filters tucked away in the fender well are also closed in by the wheel liner, so its not really getting a direct hit of air either

I was using that analagy for the 'non tech. savy' of the group...... but thanks for pointing that out, cause I would have never thought of that........ /ends sarcasm.

Dam-it Muffins (Event) wrote:you may get a cooler temp with a long ram, but the amount of bends, and distance it takes to get the air in the engine, pretty much can or will negate gains. remember, suck squish, bang, blow....
whats harder sucking through a 3 inch long straw or a 10 inch long?

Also very true, and as I pointed out before, the ideal setup would be NOT TO GO AROUND THE BATTERY...... which would shorten up the intake length (about the length of the AEM) and also provide a cool air source. The Warm Air intake, with the cool air duct has also been brought up many times in the past, and showed to work well...... as long as you provide some sort of heat shield, to keep heat out of the filter area.

and the best for last.....

Dam-it Muffins (Event) wrote:been through 11 intakes so far, and quite a few 2-300$ ones.

Your telling me there are 11 different intakes out there for the 2.2? and that some of them can cost as much as $300???? I think there are, what?, 3 different styles for the 2.4? The 'S' Tube Replacement (Weapon R) The Short Ram (AEM, Injen, RK Sport) and the Cool Air (Induction Dynamics, *RK Sport* K&N extension)........ and the TO BoyZ Cool Air........ then a few knock-offs of a couple of them, mostly Short Rams...... Thats maybe 8 intakes...... With the Induction Dynamics being the most expensive....


but once again, thanks for providing good info.



SPD RCR Z - '02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT - '04 GTO 305whp
W41 BOI - '78 Buick Opel Isuzu W41 Swap

SunfireN2o wrote:maybe u should copy and save it to a word document so you can load it back up when ya need it. lol

I did basically that. ITs like, we get these questions in waves... all of a sudden EVERYONE needs a new horn, the EVERYONE needs a new intake, then EVERYONE needs to know what octane to use....

I'm working on my own little info sheets to put on my website (link in sig) that I can just link people to.

BTW if anywone wants to do anything of the sort I can put it up on my site... I've got plenty of space and bandwidth.


hello
NEO WAS HERE
I have become too lazy to create a new sig.
you're reading my line-break
<A HREF="http://www.neo-j.741.com/">Check my website</A>