So i was bouncing around the internet and i came across this page (http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Product/tf-VehicleBrowse/s-10101/Pr-p_Product.CATENTRY_ID:2009919/showCustom-0/p-2009919/N-200000172+111+2004+600005873/c-10102) for adjustable cam gears for the ecotec, problem is within the description it states "
Now it’s easy to adjust valve timing on your Acura/Honda Si B-series VTEC DOHC engine!"
Am i not reading this correctly do the cam gears for the hondas fit the cavalier or did the site screw up?
Is isn't very important i just want to find an answer.
"Sink or Swim, Do or Die!"
adjustable timing gears are out there for the eco , i think the website is just messed up
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
Rodimus Prime wrote:adjustable timing gears are out there for the eco , i think the website is just messed up
Who makes them besides GM?
CavalieRX wrote:Rodimus Prime wrote:adjustable timing gears are out there for the eco , i think the website is just messed up
Who makes them besides GM?
From my research, no one. Also from my research, you don't need them unless you are boosted or running a high power all motor car that could probably use the cam timing to it's advantage. Our cam timing is actually right on the money...if we had a VVT motor, it would be useful.
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
it would probably save some effort for those n2o guys who dont want to drop money on an msd but want new cams.
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boobs now with Riboflabin"
Jcavi wrote:it would probably save some effort for those n2o guys who dont want to drop money on an msd but want new cams.
Actually cam timing and ignition timing are totally 2 different things. Ignition timing would benefit the nitrous guys. I think you just got them 2 confussed for a second thats all.
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
damn you scuba steve. ok then but dont they both deal with the dealy or advance of combustion or am I still not reading enough. cam timing wouldnt have anything to do with just getting more air into the cyilders would. (isnt this the same damn argument we had at the mall)
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boobs now with Riboflabin"
Jcavi wrote:damn you scuba steve. ok then but dont they both deal with the dealy or advance of combustion or am I still not reading enough. cam timing wouldnt have anything to do with just getting more air into the cyilders would. (isnt this the same damn argument we had at the mall)
I believe it has to deal with changing somewhat of the lift and duration but I could be wrong. I don't think we discussed cam gears in person LOL
By the way, this was the first time I've been called Scuba Steve...felt good
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
we were talking about if cams change timing. like if you could retard it or advace it with the cams. you said it was all bottom end stuff no cams
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boobs now with Riboflabin"
Jcavi wrote:we were talking about if cams change timing. like if you could retard it or advace it with the cams. you said it was all bottom end stuff no cams
Actually no. You had said that cams raise your compression and I said no, the only way you can raise your compression through the bottom end (pistons) or by milling the head. So the answer was compression, not timing.
By the way, Scuba steve said this is getting off topic LOL
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
ok here you go. you change cam timeing to change the cars power band. the more you advance it ( with in reason ) the power band is shifted lower in the rpm band great for heavy cars running big blocks help launch them off the line. retarding it woves the power band higher in the rpm range. great for nascar and land speed stuff. the couple horses you may get realy doesnt justify the high cost of the g.m. gears. and i've never heard of aftermarket ones. and jc whitney is a bunch of idiots.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
jackalope wrote:ok here you go. you change cam timeing to change the cars power band. the more you advance it ( with in reason ) the power band is shifted lower in the rpm band great for heavy cars running big blocks help launch them off the line. retarding it woves the power band higher in the rpm range. great for nascar and land speed stuff. the couple horses you may get realy doesnt justify the high cost of the g.m. gears. and i've never heard of aftermarket ones. and jc whitney is a bunch of idiots.
There ya go! With that in mind, ECOTEC motors have 7k redline and we have a big enough power band. If we had a Honda motor, cam gears would help more especially with a VVT motor because they have higher redlines and no torque...all their power is in higher RPMs.
I've done reasearch and asked people who have the cam gears and they tried to tune them and the best timing they saw was SO close to the stock timing...it's not worth getting, maybe if you can raise redline it would help more.
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
NJs Honda Killa wrote:Jcavi wrote:we were talking about if cams change timing. like if you could retard it or advace it with the cams. you said it was all bottom end stuff no cams
Actually no. You had said that cams raise your compression and I said no, the only way you can raise your compression through the bottom end (pistons) or by milling the head. So the answer was compression, not timing.
By the way, Scuba steve said this is getting off topic LOL
incorrect. compression ratio can be affected by valve train. different valve clearance, combustion chamber cc's, head gasket spacing, bottom end, and machine work is all part of compression ratio.
I was a retard, and now I'm permanently banned.
compression ratio is in no way affected by valve train. the only way a valve could affect
compression is if a valve were to break off and blow the piston / cylinder wall. other then that the other things you mention are exactly what hondakilla said. mill the head
gasket thickness piston design and combustion chamber shape. the only thing you
may be able to argue is that if you have a cam with tight lobe sepperation ( musle car sounding type cam ) they have alot of whats called low rpm bleed off basicly air goes in the intake valve and the exhaust valve isnt closed all the way yet. this allowed those big monsters to idle below 1500 rpm because the cams were so big high lift and lots of duration. the more lift you have the faster off the line you are the more duration the higher top speeds are possible. i recommend get some books out of the library because this can be pretty involved. the valve clearances that your talking about sportabee are important but for the reason of piston to valve contact and dont do anything for compression. but its still very important you hit a valve hard enough and cause the valves head to break off then no that cylinder will have no compression.
and like i said before the money youd spend on these adjustable gears aren't worth it g.m. is just too expensive on these and i know of no aftermarket. just buy a header instead you'll be happier in the long run.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
nj thats right it was about the compression with cams. so whats the final verdict can cams change comperssion?
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boobs now with Riboflabin"
hondakilla it would apeer that we can put forth quite a bit of good info together.
so if you put your 2 cents worth in well have 4 cents.....? still not enough to buy
timng gears but who cares they cant help us much any way. so what do you say?
can switching cams raise or lower compression? i KNOW they cant but your help
would be very welcome.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
Actually my cents are Canadian coins LOL
I say no they can't...I'm sticking with my story. Even if they could, it wouldn't be much of a compression raise but I don't see how. Modifying you head to try and get a higher compression is kind of the cheap way or doing it...be a man...do the bottom end! LOL j/k
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
Sounds like we've got some guys with BTDT getting a few terms mixed up.
Compression ratio: Defined as the ratio of cylinder+ chamber volume with piston at bottom dead center to cylinder + chamber volume with piston at top dead center. The compression ratio, sometimes called static compression ratio, doesn't change once the engine's built (except for the special variable compression engine designed to test fuel octane ratings).
Effective compression ratio: This is a relative term which indicates cylinder pressure compared to cylinder pressure in an engine with a given compression ratio. EH?? It's all about cylinder pressure. Boosting an engine increases the effective compression ratio, while running a large duration, narrow lobe cam decreases effective compression ratio at low engine rpm. Changing cam timing can also change effective compression ratio.
Quote:
cam gears would help more especially with a VVT motor
VVT is variable valve timing. The whole idea behind VVT is to alter valve timing to match the engine rpm. Once the timing is adjusted with a cam gear, it's locked at that setting. VVT allows the valve timing to be altered up and down continously. It
should eliminate any need for adjustable timing gears. And one of the new Eco engines is VVT... I believe it's a 2.4L .
And for the question about cam timing and ignition timing... some history. Once upon a time, most ignition systems had distributors which were camshaft driven. If the cam timing were altered by, say, 3 degrees (measured at the crank) then the ignition timing would be altered 3 degrees also.
Now imagine an engine with 75k , 100k, or more miles. If that engine is timing chain or belt equipped, theres a good chance that the chain or belt is stretched and the gears are worn, allowing the cam to "bounce" around quite a bit. Not only does this play heck with the valve timing, but also with ignition timing. How's a company going to keep the engine running well and within emissions with cam and ignition timing bouncing around 3 - 4 degrees?
With the introduction of the Quad4 engine, GM started using an old racer's trick and picked up the ignition timing signal from the crankshaft rather than the cam. In these engines a change in cam timing does not affect the ignition timing. Better for driveability, for emissions, and for power. AFAIK, all domestic GM DIS engines now use crankshaft triggering.
And JCWhitney is a bunch of idiots.
hth
-->Slow
Valve timing can change compression very slightly, because you're altering when the valves open and close. Remember, as that piston starts coming back up on the compression stroke, if the intake valves are still open slightly, air escapes, lowering the pressure, IE compression. If the intake valves close too early on the intake stroke, less air/fuel will be sucked into the chamber, also lowering the pressure. If the outtake valve opens too early, the combustion stroke loses pressure/efficiency.
So, it's not a matter of truly raising compression, but ensuring the correct timing to maximize compression. Most street cars are not perfect that way, as it's better for fuel economy.
valve seat height can change compression ratio. and cam timing can bleed off compression. thats why a sbc with a high compression ratio runs better with less knock with a big cam with lot's of duration.
see ya!
thats what i said!!!
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
wow I feel smater in some way, thank god for the org
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boobs now with Riboflabin"
