I tried a search but couldn't really find anything... I would assume so, but are all the LN2's basically the same, with exception to the 2200 getting SFI and a few extras here and there? I would assume the block and heads are the same ie. bolt locations, and all you would have to do is change out the sensors, etc back to obd I ? I would also assume the tranny's are the same with exception to the 3 and 4 speed difference. (bolting up wise). I know if I run obdII in there ill have to find a newer tranny due to the electronics if m not mistaken.

Basically, Im wondering if i can run a short block 2200 instead of the earlier sb 2.2. Im also wondering how much of a hassle it would be to upgrade to obd II if needed.

Any input greatly appreciated and I'm sorry if this is the wrong forum . I bought a 94 cavi with the LN2 and from the sounds of it judging by the spewing oil from the back (still mush investigate, hafta bring it home yet) the innards are toast so looking to do a swap.

Thanx for your time guys and girls



Hellraiser and Lil Lightning

the heads arent the same.

you have to look for a head or block roughly in the 95-97 range of the third gens.

if you want obd2, then it would be easiest to get the whole setup from said car and switch. you might, well prob will have to do some splicing.

3 speed tranny is pretty much the same, although the 4 speed is only electronically shifting one.

heres most all the differences

http://www.ny-jbodies.org/library/engine/2.2/2.2history.htm

you will be best off swapping motor, trans (if 00+), harness, and PCM.




I was a retard, and now I'm permanently banned.

Im gonna read through the article in a little bit, but another thing i thought of...
what if i take the 94 intake and put it on a 2200 and fit the misc sensors into there to keep it obd I? also, are sfi and mpfi relatively similar whereas i could switch to sfi and use the existing setup (same injectors but diff intake routing, etc) and have sfi instead of mpfi?

i paid like 280 for the 94 and looking to swap a working motor in it for not alot of the green. just a side project to keep me busy........ I have to think about what you guys said before i say more and humiliate myself just got off of work.... thanx for the replies


Hellraiser and Lil Lightning

ok i read the article now that i have time, and this looks like a fun project....

I kinda answered my question bout fuel injectors: haynes says 11.6-12.4 ohms for 95 and i assume the same for 94 since same internals so basically same engine for 2 years and 2200's run 11-14 ohms, so i dont think that SFI would work with a MPFI computer. fuel pressure differs 01+ also.

Another consideration, according to the link, 2200 and earlier ln2 wouldnt be compatible due to the second gen 4618 crank and the 1237 crank so timing would be messed up. Heads wouldnt be too interchangeable if the year gap is too big either.

So yeah, Event you were right in saying 95-97, well including 94 too since thats what i have right now, engines would work, and ill have to stick to those to keep obd1. Or bump up to 2, find a tranny, engine and work off the engine i get to wire that system up.

A quick question bout trannys tho: Would a 3t work with obd2? my guess is yes if the newer pcm, etc. is also a 3t setup, and a 4t40 computer wouldnt work since its electronically shifting gears. Thats what im getting out of what you said Event.....

Sorry for my rambling, still trying to absorb all this. Not good with no sleep...
Thanx again for the info guys.


Hellraiser and Lil Lightning

Hellraiser319 wrote:
A quick question bout trannys tho: Would a 3t work with obd2? my guess is yes if the newer pcm, etc. is also a 3t setup, and a 4t40 computer wouldnt work since its electronically shifting gears. Thats what im getting out of what you said Event.....

Yes, the 3T40/TH125C will work with the OBD-2 PCMs, provided you get one from a Cavi with the 3sp. As far as I've seen, the 3T40 came in J-bodies w/ 2.2L/2200s through the '99 model year.

MadJack wrote:

Hellraiser319 wrote:
A quick question bout trannys tho: Would a 3t work with obd2? my guess is yes if the newer pcm, etc. is also a 3t setup, and a 4t40 computer wouldnt work since its electronically shifting gears. Thats what im getting out of what you said Event.....

Yes, the 3T40/TH125C will work with the OBD-2 PCMs, provided you get one from a Cavi with the 3sp. As far as I've seen, the 3T40 came in J-bodies w/ 2.2L/2200s through the '99 model year.

i'll trade you my 3T40 for a five speed.




I was a retard, and now I'm permanently banned.

I would suggest if you're getting a whole new motor, to maybe get a 98+ 2200 motor, or even a 2.4 motor. The reason i'm saying not to get a 95-97 2.2 is because of the fuel system. The side feed injectors. If you ever wanted to super charge, or turbo the car, you will have one hell of a time, and costly too, to make it work. You'd have to change and re-do the entire fuel system, trying to make it like the 2200 motors from 98+.
You could also go ahead and go to a 2.4 but the tranny's in those are different then the 2.2

So, if you don't plan to turbo, or anything like that, then a 95-97 is fine i suppose.

Spotabee Racing wrote:i'll trade you my 3T40 for a five speed.

Sorry, all I've got is the 3T40 and I just got that working right!

MadJack wrote:

Spotabee Racing wrote:i'll trade you my 3T40 for a five speed.

Sorry, all I've got is the 3T40 and I just got that working right!

I have so much powerloss through mine, it's horrible. 160k miles on a transmission and it tends to do that. Anything I can do to get power out of it still?




I was a retard, and now I'm permanently banned.

Can u put a 98 2200 into a 97 that had a 2.2 5spd. Aside from a few senors, how much difference in wire harnes to the egine and to the computer?

Spotabee Racing wrote:I have so much powerloss through mine, it's horrible. 160k miles on a transmission and it tends to do that. Anything I can do to get power out of it still?

About the best thing to do is what Event did to his(Mines almost the same). You've probably already seen it, if not here it is again:http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=41&i=1893&t=1893&arch=1#1893 Only difference, I believe, is the clutches(he used Red Line, mine the local shops heavy duty brand,Transgo?), the type of shift kit(he states Chessapeak reworked his, Superior kit in mine) and the TC(26-2800RPM Stall his, 2560RPM from DACCO in mine). I'd recomend the Yank 2800, I should have, but even mine is an improvement over the stock stall. DACCO also has 2795 RPM Stall TCs that were stock. I'll just make some adjustments to bring the torque band down a little.

BTW, mine had 197k miles and was still running strong, but since I was rebuilding the engine, I got the tranny done too.

MadJack wrote:

Spotabee Racing wrote:I have so much powerloss through mine, it's horrible. 160k miles on a transmission and it tends to do that. Anything I can do to get power out of it still?

About the best thing to do is what Event did to his(Mines almost the same). You've probably already seen it, if not here it is again: Only difference, I believe, is the clutches(he used Red Line, mine the local shops heavy duty brand,Transgo?), the type of shift kit(he states Chessapeak reworked his, Superior kit in mine) and the TC(26-2800RPM Stall his, 2560RPM from DACCO in mine). I'd recomend the Yank 2800, I should have, but even mine is an improvement over the stock stall. DACCO also has 2795 RPM Stall TCs that were stock. I'll just make some adjustments to bring the torque band down a little.

BTW, mine had 197k miles and was still running strong, but since I was rebuilding the engine, I got the tranny done too.

what's the cost on that? I don't want to have to take it all the way up there.




I was a retard, and now I'm permanently banned.

I didn't go up there. Took it to the shop my racing friends recommended.
I'd say ask around your area, such as your machine shop, any race shops, etc.. See who they recommend. Just don't go to any of the Transmission Chain Shops, but a locally owned shop, especially if they're known for doing performance work.

I thought of something else as i tore apart my engine..... i read that entire article again and it didnt say anything about lifters... all it said was the 2200s had a different cam, so i was wondering if all the LN2s used similar lifters, I know that 94+ have hydrorollers and 93 and lower dont. autozone says the same part # for 94-00 so i would assume I could swipe some lifters from a 2200 with low miles thats already torn apart and beat payin $150 for new ones (don't entirely trust this engine yet and still need an oil pan and hope lower rotating assm. still in good shape )


Hellraiser and Lil Lightning

Hellraiser319, you're like Mr. Question.

What are you trying to do... Are you thinking the car is like a computer and it needs the latest stuff to make it go? That would explain the desire for OBDII, but what about the later engine?

By time:
pre 92 2.2 is TBI, flat hydraulic tappetts. Ok if you have one, not worth paying $$ for the core if you're building an engine.

92-93 first pfi system. Uses high impedance bottom fed 16 lb/hr Multec injectors which are really TBI injectors that don't flow much fuel. These engines use flat hydraulic tappetts and cannot be retrofitted to rollers without machine work. 92-93 engines were not fitted with knock sensors as far as I've seen, and all the ecm programming that I've run into has been fairly mild. 92-93 engines were "batch fire" engines where all 4 injectors were opened at once, but firing strategy can be changed with a few wire changes.

94-97 saw slightly increased compression over the 93. Oil pump gear size and pickup tube diameter was reduced slightly making the 94+ pump a "low volume" pump when compared to the 92-93 model. 94-97 engines use hydraulic roller tappets but can be fitted with hydraulic or mechanical flat tappets if desired. These engines used a 17 lb/hr injector similar to the 92-93 design. 95+ engines (possibly 94, too) used more agressive spark timing and were fitted with knock sensors. Exhaust manifold diameter was reduced in 95 and the donught to front pipe interface was changed slightly. I'm guessing the smaller manifold design was intended to increase torque. 94-95 engines were "alternating batch fire engines" where the injectors were split into 2 groups of 2 injectors firing together. 96+ engines are sequential injection and have a cam sensor to allow this.

98+ 2200 engines recieved a redesigned cylinder head which increased torque output. The exhaust and intake manifolds are different from the older engines. The cam is matched to the induction system. The bottom fed injectors were replaced by traditional top feed injectors. Internal impedance of the injectors may have varied from year to year, but there are only 2 different pcm #'s for 2200 engines, 98-99 used a 16228016, and in 2000 all engines used a 9356249. The crank sensor notch machining is different, but others on the .org who have swapped the later engine into an earlier car report that the ignition module is the same between both years and that the later engine runs fine with the earlier pcm. I'm still puzzled over this one, though, as the only way this could be true is that the position of the crank sensor has been moved slightly to match the change in the position of the notches. Otherwise, I'd expect that changes would be needed in the calibration of any ecm/ pcm which does not use a cam sensor.

Some of this is from my experience, some from the LN2 history, some from reading JBO. What I've listed is what I feel are the important considerations. OBDII is a powerful and completely unnecessary set of restrictions to place on an OBDI car. I'd look for a 94-97 short block to get roller lifters, better pistons, and a crank which I know will not cause problems with the ecm programming. I'd recommend looking for a 98+ head and induction system if I were planning to turbocharge or supercharge to allow an easy swap to larger injectors. And I'd probably go with the 5 speed or non electronic 3 speed auto trans. That's what I'd recommend.

Then again, most of us LN2 guys know we are taking the path less travelled and do everything the hard way anyhow.

Also, hydraulic roller lifters last for a long, long time. I've reused lifters that have 200k on them with no problems. GM even recommends reusing them if you replace a cam. But if you're going to throw yours out, let me send my address and you can send 'em to me.

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