OK so I will have a stock head to work with what parts or work should I have done to make it like a patriot head
I know I will need a new gasket set
Head studs?
what kinda valves and valve springs?
what kinda port job for 6psi or more?
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
you should probably shoot for BETTER than a patriot head. I've yet to see a dyno that suggests it really makes much improvement over stock.
Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
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for the effin price they charge I would hope for at least a 40hp gain, Otherwise that would be money better spent on a turbo kit.
-Chris
the only thing could see doing better then the patriot head is more porting
The one, the only, ME.
IamRascal wrote:for the effin price they charge I would hope for at least a 40hp gain, Otherwise that would be money better spent on a turbo kit.
Nowhere close. I won't name names, but I know of one person with the patriot head and JBP stage 2 cams who has definitely not seen anywhere near a 40 hp gain. It hasn't been dynoed but still can't keep up with a 5 speed eco thats mostly stock.
I also talked to a friend of mine who was at CNFX to get dynoed and he saw a cav with a patriot head and i think also the JBP stage two cams, and even after an hour of dyno tuning, it only made about 12 hp over stock at the wheels. A GOOD set of cams alone should be able to do that. In fairness though, i do think that the eco pcm's lack of legitimate tuning options is the real issue. A true reflash ala HPTuners by a tuning specialist is necessary to get the real power out of a head and cams. An SAFC2 just doesn't cut it because with the added airflow comes changes in dynamic compression that necessitates changes in fuel and TIMING in order to maximize the power.
But still, i don't trust CNC ported heads. Some things are better left to humans. And the art of porting is one of them.
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Does patriot have any flow diagrams for the head.
Rodimus, basically you want to port till your able to maximize flow thru the head. Grinding away just the right amount. Too much will hinder flow, and too little won't do anything. A 3-way valve job should be sufficient for our cars.
I was watching a show on building bigblocks and bascially they would get a head and keep grinding it till the flow decreased, then they'd throw away the piece and grind the rest to that specification.
I'm thinking the Patriot head may be overground to the point where the air efficiency is actually decreased.
Course you could always just save a few mm of the head to increase compression
like the Showroom Stockers do for pre-lims in scca.....
-Chris
well having the stage 2 cams aont gonna help you when you get the head just because. if the cams are designed around the stock airflow characteristics the aftermarket head could render them worthless just as they could make the head flow less.
personally i have seen NUMEROUS cars with patriot heads that show nice increases in HP and TQ. of course for matt it will be more noticable because of the boost. one of my projects for the winter is to get a patriot stage 2 head and throw it on my spare motor as its built up. that plus some boost cams could make a killer combo
I used to race cars, now I race myself.
5K PB: 24:50
10K PB: 54:26
I will be using stock cams because bascially all aftermarket cams are nothing but trouble and the stock ones are perfect for boost anyway
Im thinking this so far 3 angle, some stronger valve springs, hardened valve seats some 1mm oversize valves, and some work done on the intake and exaust ports, and a cometic mls head gasket the one for boost
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
That sounds like a good start. Are you gonna turbo or supercharge it?
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
Can you not read his sig, or his mod list?
/\ /\ /\ Thanks actualy I did miss that part. It your supercharged open the exhaust up as much as you can and make sure the intake runners are nice and smooth. But do not port the intake side as this will drop your boost levels.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
I need to get with the machine shop I'm going to use and have them build some heads to sell.
Jackalope wrote:/\ /\ /\ Thanks actualy I did miss that part. It your supercharged open the exhaust up as much as you can and make sure the intake runners are nice and smooth. But do not port the intake side as this will drop your boost levels.
Porting the intake side has the potential to slightly decrease boost level. Will it? Only if you go too much. Besides that, remember that boost is simply restriction to flow. It would be wise just to clean up the length of the port to remove the sandy finish and do the valve pocket/bowl work on the intake side, shaving down the valve stem boss as much as you can and cleaning up the throat of the port near the valve. Jackalope does raise a good point in that on a boosted car, getting the exhaust side to flow is very important, since the supercharger is forcing the air in, but its still being removed the same way it was N/A, mostly by upward piston movement and partly by pressure differential between inside the combustion chamber and out in the rest of the exhaust system.
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an apparently little know fact, that i thought would be more obvious, is that just because the actual boost level drops the power probably wont. this is because as stated before the boost is a restriction to flow. well less restriction means more flow. more air in to compress but a slightly lower boost number. if you think about it, thats a good thing. ill take a drop from 15 to 12PSI if it means getting enough air in to make that 12PSI just as good, if not better, than the previous 15PSI
I used to race cars, now I race myself.
5K PB: 24:50
10K PB: 54:26
Im aware of the fact that I will lose some boost pressure however it will be much less than a turbo would experience seeing as how my cfm is 2x what most turbos are
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
Scarab wrote:Nowhere close. I won't name names, but I know of one person with the patriot head and JBP stage 2 cams who has definitely not seen anywhere near a 40 hp gain. It hasn't been dynoed but still can't keep up with a 5 speed eco thats mostly stock.
He's talking about me and sadly he's right, I can't keep up some stock 5-speed ecos but I will still say that my transmission is the fault of this. Now, even if I had a 5-speed, there defenitley wouldn't a 40 hp gain. Now if I was boosted, a significant gain is possible and I hope to see some type of gains because of it when I do finish the turbo setup soon.
I still think my setup is geared also more torwards a boosted vehicle. When I first had called Patriot and was talking to them about how their heads were, they kept talking about them being on turbo'd cars and how they got VERY significant gain from it.
Now, the price for the head is not rediculously overpriced and is pretty much in the area that I would imagine for a product/setup that isn't in high demand like an import car's head would be. Also, they blow bench test the head, replace everything and they do a good job at it. My head came to me looking beautiful and even though I am N/A, there was a good gain from it.
BTW Jay, you're wrong about 1 thing, I have Stage 1 camshafts, not Stage 2
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
Just be carefull when we ported the intake ports on my Turbo Trans-Am it help upper
rpms BIG TIME !! But off the line suffered bad till I had the compressor wheel replaced
then it got a little better. Mostly just "clean up" the intake side watch how much you port or your low rpms will suffer.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
well these stock 5 speed ecos are also much lighter, just the tranny alone in an auto is much heavier not to mention your rims and body kit, strap equal weight in the cars and they wouldnt stand a chance against you
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
My head work cost me around $850 to get done... that was doing it myself.
valves $200
valve job/hot tank labor $250
porting $50 (did it myself, so no labor)
gaskets, tensioner shoe, assembly lube, etc.. $350 (they add up quick!)
It's not hard... just REALLY time consuming to get it to the point where I was happy with it.
Quote:
It's not hard... just REALLY time consuming to get it to the point where I was happy with it.
Not to mention the endless hours spent humping it once you were done
Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
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thats what rodimus will dom is hump then Skeet on it
Im a Xbox 360 fanboy...and damn proud of it!!
