I was just wondering what would be best for a 2.4. 4-2-1 or a 4-1. I read that the 4-1 will give you high end power. Is this correct and if so who makes a 4-1 header?
as far as I know they won't make too much of a difference on our cars. but if you're dead set.
yes it's true what you hear and pacesetter's headers are all 4-1 make sure you get armor coated.
One thing that everyone should learn is that there is no "best" when it comes to modifying...it's all about preference. One person could like the 4-1 style, another person could like the 4-2-1 style.
Now, I will say that 4-1 style tends to give more supportive on the top end, 4-2-1 tend to be more supportive for the low-mid range power.
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
^^ Are you saying the header won't do much? If you are you are wrong. 4-1 Vs. 4-2-1 is personal choice really. I like the power up top which is where I feel its needed. The 4-1 is for top end and the 4-2-1 is for low and mid. I feel I already had enough low end power and needed help up top. Goodluck.
2012 HD VRSCF
2010 Ford Explorer
2006 Ford Ranger
2004 Chevy Cavalier
nah, header always helps. but just saying that from what I've been told that the differences aren't that major from 4-2-1 & 4-1.
just a matter of what works for your setup.
Oh ok, I thought you were saying the header wouldn't help. Gottcha.
2012 HD VRSCF
2010 Ford Explorer
2006 Ford Ranger
2004 Chevy Cavalier
hell I wish I had a header. might be getting one for x-mas though.
Our stock headers are weak in the pants. As for personal choice, low-mid range power is more for bobbing and weaving through traffic, high end is better for flooring it. I chose 4-1 becuase when you floor it in a race, you want the most out of it; at least I do becuase it's my night job.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2208703
dario wrote:As for personal choice, low-mid range power is more for bobbing and weaving through traffic, high end is better for flooring it. I chose 4-1 becuase when you floor it in a race, you want the most out of it; at least I do becuase it's my night job.
I'm sorry but that "logic" doesn't make much sense. How is a 4-1 style header such an impact on your powerband, so much better for "flooring it" over an 4-2-1 style?
The 4-2-1's Low-Mid range power is better for "off the line power" or torque. Some people might want that extra power in that area of their powerband for example, better 60' times at the track if they are experiencing problems in that area.
Overall, your post just confused me...
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
dario wrote:Our stock headers are weak in the pants. As for personal choice, low-mid range power is more for bobbing and weaving through traffic, high end is better for flooring it. I chose 4-1 becuase when you floor it in a race, you want the most out of it; at least I do becuase it's my night job.
I don't really understand what you are trying to say and I second Adam in saying that your logic doesn't seem right. You buy a header (as well as other performance upgrades) according to your needs and preferences. You may have a track-tuned car and you may feel as if you need more low-end power, thereby necessitating the purchase of certain products that will help you with low-end power (i.e. 4-2-1 header which helps in the low-mid range).
Blown.
the 4-2-1 is my header of choice. especially if ceramic coated.
I was a retard, and now I'm permanently banned.
I'm selling my OBX stainless steel header. I'm going turbo, so I won't need it anymore. It's a 4 into 1 which I like because I was spraying 100 shot.
I think it mostly depends on your driving needs. If you're spending most of your time on the street or on an auto x circuit, and have a fairly stock motor, 4-2-1 is better because you spend most of your time in that rpm range. Same goes for drag racing where you are up in the higher rpms, where you would benefit form the 4-1 style. That's my opinion, anyway. But here's a question. I've seen a few guys on here talk about lightened flywheels, which typically takes a bit form the top end power due to lack of mass and inertia. A 4-1 header would theoretically make up for that loss. Things that typically shift the powerband a bit higher, like a port and polish, would in theory benefit more from a 4-2-1 style to make up for that loss. What I'm getting at is it seems that the header choice would also depend on other mods you are planning, so that you get a balanced power band instead all top or all bottom. Am I wrong in this way of thought?
This weekend (yesterday) I installed my DC Sports 4-2-1 Race Header. The power increase seems to be just as present in both the top and bottom end. It made that car happy. It made me happy. And all I can say is "I'm Rick James Biatch!" and when I rev the engine it responds with "Charlie Murphaaaaay!!!!!!!!!!!!"
So I think it was a good choice.
Quote:
The power increase seems to be just as present in both the top and bottom end.
Yeah, by looking at the limited pics going around, it looks like an extended version of the factory header. Just done right.
Event had a post on headers styles somewhere on here.
Meanwhile.................
Pics, sound clips, more descriptions on the butt dyno man. Tell us more.
Did you nix your cat or use the adapter flange?
How well was the fitment?
Where was the o2 sensor placement?
Who well was it boxed from the factory?
Did you get stickers?
You could be da man since you got it done first....retail wise.
(I know you have the original prototype 97cavie)
Still congrats on the purchase.
-M
Remember....syringes go in the RED waste basket.
I'll post my home-made video of the whole process whem I get home... I'm at work right now
I also have !!!tons!!! of pics.
Butt-dyno says between 10 and 15 HP. Torque is off the charts! I can literally go to 3rd gear, slow down to like 15mph and the car feels like it's gonna stall, mash the gas pedal and takes off very briskly! Thoroughly impressed.
Impressed with the sound, but not necessarily the "kind" of sound it makes. Just the loudness.
Running no cat, which freed up power no doubt, but also added to the raspy sound. Recommend having a nice resonator welded into the race pipe section or the beginning of the cat-back.
Fitment was FLAWLESS. Was worried about firewall clearance because I heard so many horror-stories about poor fitment from all kinds of headers, but the clearance was actually perfect. No nocking or rubbing at all. One member here said he had to jimmy the heat shield under the car around so it wouldn't hit, but I did not have to do that. The 2-1 section DOES have like a 5" - 6" braided flex-pipe. A few things I did have to to was unbolt the brace for the dip-stick and some other oil line and scoot it over to get the old manifold flange to come away from the engine, unbolt one of the cooling lines at the back of the engine and scoot it over, and remove the cruise control module from the firewall so you actually have room to maneuver back there. It's a really tight space, but it's nothing compared to the absolutely no clearance you have trying to install a set of custom shorty headers onto a '67 Shelby Mustang GT350... that made me want to cry.
There are 2 O2 sensors. The pre-cat O2 screws into a bung on one of the primaries (first pipes off the flange) in pretty much the same location as it was in the factory manifold. The post-cat O2 is in the race pipe towards the end (clost to the cat-back), where the converter used to be. It is also basically in the same position it was with the stock exhaust. I bought both sensors BRAND new from Advance Auto for like $150 just for precautionary measures, so they went right in, no problems. I got them mainly because I knew my goofy ass would mess them up removing them from stock exhaust and it either wouldnt fit in the new pipes of it would just be damaged and the car would throw a code. Besides, it never hurts to be thorough and replace as much as you can just to be safe.
The kit came in one huge box with "DC SPORTS" printed all over it. All 3 pieces (the 4-2, the 2-1, and the race pipe) were individually wrapped in plastic, positioned far from eachother in the box, and surrounded by a truck-load of packing peanuts. All parts came with a perfect finish with no stratches of dents. This made me happy since my Pacesetter cat-back came in a box with only a handful of packing peanuts, one end crushed in, and one of the sections of pipe had the end all banged in and bent so I had to re-work the end and straighten it out by heating it with a propane torch. Once again, I'm impressed.
Also in the package, they included brand new bolts and nuts to attach the 4-2 and 2-1, the 2-1 and race pipe, and the race pipe to the cat-back. There were isntructions included, and a REALLY thick flange to weld in if you wanna keepthe cat. There were 2 steel "O" rings used to seal up the connection of the 4-2 and the 2-1 sections. They even supplied a 2-bolt gasket for joining the race pipe and the cat-back. WOW. They really went above and beyond the call of duty.
And yes, I got 2 stickers
The whole install took 2 days - Saturday and Sunday - just because I was being very thorough and had to wait overnight for my sensors to arrive on order from Advance Auto before I could begin installing the new header. I was the only one doing the whole install. So I did the whole thing (removal and install) ALL BY MYSELF in one weekend. So if you're looking for a header to install THIS IS IT because it gives CRAZY power and only takes one person with BASIC tools and a jack. That's literally all that's needed. Some sockets with a couple extenders, a short 14mm wrench, a jack, and a long stick to reach under the car and retrieve tools and nuts when you drop them through the engine bay.
Don't forget to buy a new manifold gasket! Reusing the old one like the instructions say might work, but it's seriously not worth it... I mean come on... a new Fel-Pro gasket is like 8 bucks and it's a guaranteed good seal. Believe me, you'd be REALLY pissed if you got everything bolted up and the damn thing was leaking at the head. Pay attention to whether or not your car uses EGR, because the DC Sport header flange has a groove for EGR, and the gasket you is the only thing deciding whether it is used or blocked off. Just look at your old gasket and get one that looks exactly like it. Do everything right and you won't throw a code, which has happened to many JBO members it seems.
I've wasted so much time here at work writing this, but it has been worth it to help my fellow
members. Speaking of helping out the ORG, go Premium everybody!!!! I'm loving every minute of it
Excellent,
Give your fingers a rest now.
Quote:
The pre-cat O2 screws into a bung on one of the primaries (first pipes off the flange) in pretty much the same location as it was in the factory manifold
Ut oh, that's not good......of sorts
That idealy should be after the 2-1 juncture.
Welded into the '1' pipe.
After the braided flex pip if I'm reading correctly.
Makes me wonder why the thought process al those years ago for RK sport doing something similar.
Oh well.
I'll email you for the pics.
Once again congrats
Thanks man,
-M
Remember....syringes go in the RED waste basket.
Yep, the first O2 was in one of those akward tubes in the stock manifold close to the flange, and in one of the primaries in the DC header close to the flange. Seems more logical to have it in or after the "1" section. But hey, the thing's amazing and works great where it is, so I'm not gonna make a fuss about it. Especially since I'm too lazy to unbolt all that crap just to weld my own bung a foot and a half downstream
. Might be a worthy experiment one of these days though...
Internet > Sam
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
^ ^ ^ LOL!!
Well I'll tell ya, all I had done to the car before this header install is COMPLETE intake (shortram, 62mm TB, ported manifold) and a catback. So that means the header completed the process of freeing up both intake and exhaust. So now that the car is flowing REALLY well, this header really shines! The butt-dyno doesn't lie! Unless you have hemorrhoids...
^^lol!!
anways..i like my pacesetter 2.4L header (4-1). i have the HO mani and when i installed my header..after 3,500 rpm..i become histerical.
