Well I finally got my Patriot P&P'ed cylinder head on along with the Crane 1.6 Roller Rockers. After sending the head back and wainting for the new one, then adjusting the rockers and dremeling out the valve cover, shes up and running. How ever, all is not well. She sounds like theres a small block chevy V8 engine in her, very "lumpy" like a giant cam, and she idles very very VERY low, probably like 700 ish(altohg i dont have a tach.) Is this normal? since ive got higher lift now i would sounds like a bigger cam? Is there a way to adjust the throttle body to increase idle RPM? Oh and after i drove it a few times, the check engine light came on, but I pretty much expected that. Any thoughts are helpful!

you shouldn't be getting a check engine light from 1.6:1 rockers.

Are you sure you've set your rockers properly?

Its entirely possible that you have them too tight and the valve isn't closing entirely. (or it may not have the right close spring tension, due to over tightening the rockers)

theres a read-me at the top on how to properly set the lash for adjustable rockers, check that out.

I thought maybe you'd have a vacuum leak, but those generally cause a high idle and not a lower.

Yes, we used the RR adjustment FAQ from here and the one from Howell where we got the parts, and did it twice. Thats not to say, we knew exactly what we were doing though.

I had a bitch of a time setting my rockers, but they never were tightened down enough to hold the valve open.

I can't see your new head being the source of your problems.. have you checked your IAC? perhaps even change it, to see if it would fix the problem?

Also, try resetting the computer.

It may idle lower due to the decreased air velocity because of the larger port diameters. It's a stretch, but you never know. What did it used to idle at? Also, have the code scanned to see what the problem is.



fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.

i just had the head on my car ported and polished and milled as well.....i do not have the roller rockers though, anyway my car did the same thing, it idled really low and sounded very loby.....check your compression. also the check engine light came on in my car as well, it ended up being the cam sensor and after replacing it and checking all of the wires with a multi-meter nothing came back wrong....i pulled the head back off and replaced the lifters and now everything is fine..............

was not a fun experience

hope this helps

me thinks you just need a tune

stock ecu's and ported heads/higher lift never get along on these cars



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when you beat someone in a civic people wine and make excuses
when you beat someone in a cavalier they pull over and check under thier hoods

Hmm, I wonder if that's why my car idles the way it does after I installed a p&p head. No worries. Megasquirt to the rescue.

OK, if you P&P a head, chances are that you lowered compression. Together with the increased volume, and decreased velocity, as OHV notec stated, will cause a lower idle. You will need to set this. Get out the Chiltons, Hanes, or whatever manual you have, and find the page on setting idle. It's going to involve forcing the IAC valve closed, then adjusting the set screw.

If your head was milled, the compression should at least be the same. Are the valves larger? This will also decrease air velocity.

If the idle doesn't smooth out when you set it higher, you may have a cam timing issue. However, both this and the overtightening thought above usually translate into a louder exhaust.

The slightly higher lift doesn't generally affect idle. The reason bigger cams usually idle lower and more lopey is due to the lobe separation being smaller, not due to the height of the lift.

Well close to 300 miles broken in now, shes a little less chunky, bu really hates first thing when i start it up and reverse. I attribute the reverse since its such a low gear, and different idles from a cold start are normal. But, I have had a few people who are somewhat knowledgeable of cars tell me that it sounds like its misfiring, somethings wrong with the spark plug timing, and she smells very rich, but that could be a whole other can of worms.

spark timing eh? Unless the DIS is @!#$ed up, I can't see your timing being off.

a missfire could be fouled plugs, bad wires, bad coil packs, bad DIS, etc.... but timing shouldn't go 'off' like that just because you've opened up the head for more breathing room

Yea, my ignition stuff isnt even 6 months old, its all in my profile to see what i have, but i dont have a DIS yet.

DIS units have been known to screw up! They are very fragile to bumps and potholes and can make your day a living he11 when you think and hope its pulling timing and its really not, or vice versa.




N2O + Bolt-ons = 220Hp/250Tq

Coming Soon:HpTunersPro, EagleConnectingRods, WiescoPistons, 13sec2200

If your staying N/A you don't need the MSD DIS-2, the stock ignition is more than adequate. The only time you need the MSD is if you run nitrous or boost(w/o HPT) to retard the timming.

I've discovered the stock lifters are very touchey, when it comes to setting the preload. The OEM lifters (and stock replacement) have tighter tolerances, than the old SBC hydraulic lifters. Every time I have to remove the rockers, it takes a couple of times setting the preload before they are quite right. I think it's the softer lifter plunger springs that make them so sensitive to the preload on them.

What seems to work for me is to follow the Howell instructions, but to turn the pushrods till you just start to feel some resistance(just after you take-up the free play), then turn the nut down about 1/2 turn and lock them in place. Too loose and it will idle, but roughly with a moderate amount of lifter tapping. Too tight and it idles very rough, with mis-fires, usually on the cylinders that are just a touch too tight.

I've also found running the '93 & older oil pump with help with the light lifter plunger springs. The pump has a slightly higher volume and higher pressure relief spring to help hold the lifter plunger up at higher rpms. This pump should be run with most motors that are built-up or run hard. High Volume pumps(like the Melling pump) should be saved for the more extreme motors, as the will draw alot of power to turn, wear on the pump drive gears and extra stress the timing chain more.

If its a valve adjustment issue, as some seem to be indicating, there is an easy test.
Loosen all the adjustments 1/2 or 1 turn and then run it. If it runs better, adjustment was too tight. If it doesn't run better, all that will happen is the valves may tick when it runs (won't damage anything). Then you can just set them back to where the were in the beginning and check other issues.

More important though..... find out what codes it stored when the light came on. This may lead to a really simple solution to the issue.


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I've found that being off just a quarter turn is enough to thow off the way it runs. That's how sesitive the lifters are, thats not but a few thousandths.

As for the codes, I'm willing to bet that its a cylinder or random misfire, which mine threw when the preload was too tight.

As a quick side note, the Actron CP9125 Pocket Scan has been a life saver. It only reads the active codes and clears them, but it's been a great help. I got mine at Advance Auto for only $70, when they first came out.

on small blcoks i usually adjust them while running

with the motor running loosen up tell you hear the clatter then tighten slowly tell it stops clattering , then 1/4 to 1/2 turn , then move to the next 1

[quote=97cavie24ls(JDM&00s/c sedans™)]on small blcoks i usually adjust them while running

with the motor running loosen up tell you hear the clatter then tighten slowly tell it stops clattering , then 1/4 to 1/2 turn , then move to the next 1

That's what I did with my 1.6 solid rockers, and it worked pretty well. But I've had the chatter pretty bad now and I'm starting to think it's the lifters going bad because the rockers are all tight.

The check engine light went off for about 15miles last night, then came on again as easily as it had went. Well i got the code scanned and had the resulting diagnostics done. I'm losing compression in the #1 cylinder, more than likely due to a valve opening or closing wrong, all other pistons are at a perfect 175 w/e unit for that, and the #1 is measured at 60...
I'm going to try and get them adjusted one more time and run it before i adjust them while running. Any thoughts as on it? The #1 rockers were the ones i had clearence issues with, is more than likely the exhaust valve? Any more help is appreciated.

Riley Webb wrote:The check engine light went off for about 15miles last night, then came on again as easily as it had went. Well i got the code scanned and had the resulting diagnostics done. I'm losing compression in the #1 cylinder, more than likely due to a valve opening or closing wrong, all other pistons are at a perfect 175 w/e unit for that, and the #1 is measured at 60...
I'm going to try and get them adjusted one more time and run it before i adjust them while running. Any thoughts as on it? The #1 rockers were the ones i had clearence issues with, is more than likely the exhaust valve? Any more help is appreciated.

Are you getting a popping sound (similar to back firing, but not quite as loud) out of the exhaust? If so, probably the exhaust valve. If not, probably the intake valve. When you say you have clearance issues, are you talking about with the valve cover? If that's causing your problem, you'll know it. It will be making a clanking noise, and there will be damage to the rocker and the cover.
I'm starting to wonder now if there might be a bad valve seat from the rebuild (I'm assuming they did a rebuild, not just a P&P?). If adjusting the #1 rockers doesn't do it, try an air compression test (turn the engine so that those two vavles are in their closed positions, and replace the spark plug with an air fitting. You then pump air into the cylinder. You should hear a little bit of leaking (through the cylinder, not the valves), but not a lot. If you are getting alot, it could be the seat.

Well it wasnt a rebuild I suppose, but a whole new block CNC'ed and then P&P'ed and then assembled all at the same location. I know im not having clearence issues now, I was just saying i had my issues with the #1 intake and exhaust valves and i addressed them. Once i get them adjusted again, ill try the compressed air test too, but oh man will i be pissed if its a bad seat, OH HO... ahem. Anyways thanks for the help so far people!