Hello, new guy here.. I'm tony from detroit. Been in muscle cars for 10 years now. On the weekends I drive a buick grand national, but every once and a while ill drive my girls car. its a 2001 sunfire gt. Its quite peppy actually. Have a few questions. I couldnt find them in a search so ill ask you guys. You seem pretty in tune with how your cars operate.
First off, whats the lowest octane, her bone stock car will require, to be of the fastest settings... as in fuel/timing etc etc from the ecm. I usually throw 87 in it, but whenever i put 94 in it, it drives soo much better, and pulls way harder in third, at around 28-3300 rpms than with the 87 in it. And at what point, am i just wasting money. Whats the max octane, that will do any good. 92? 93? is 94 pointless?

And secondly, when looking for intake options, or cams/chips etc. I see WAYYY more options for the 2.2 than the clearly superior 2.4 engine. Why? My girlfriends mother has the 2.2, and it in no way, shape, or form even comes CLOSE to my girls 2.4. Same year car. the 2.4 car is WAYY better handling, better trim,tires,brakes etc etc. why would anyone want to mod the total dog of an engine the 2.2 is?

And lastly, Im not sure where you guys test your cai intake temps from, but we run the exact same options on our grand nationals that you guys do. Only difference is you have names for em and we dont. But in your language, we have short rams and long ram intakes. or just 'true cai's' and 'throw a cone filter on the end of the MAF' options lol. Our true cold air intakes, produce WAYY lower temperatures than our 'filters stuck on the end of our mafs' do. Yea, in the summer, the ground and the air is hotter, but not hotter than engine bay air. Also, this site says that the cooler air eventually winds up blowing all thru the engine bay anyways, negating the need to mount the filter outside of the engine bay. What newer cav/sunfire has enough room to actually LET that air get in there? I dont know about you guys but, when i look under my girls hood, theres NO spare room WHATsoEVER under there. If i mounted a filter directly to her intake tube, theres no way, air from the ground, is going to blow with any real velocity or consistency, to say that the air intake temps will be the same from a short, to a long ram intake. Theres no way. Our true CAI's produce from 10 to a full 30 degree reduction in intake temps.. How do your cars differ??

Thank you for your help.

1. Car does not have an octane sensor, use the lowest grade that does not give you knock, and you'll be running on the "high octane" table. Octane does not give performance, it actually makes gas burn slower, reducing knock and burning a little cleaner.
2. There ARE NO PERFORMANCE CHIPS, period. All the "chips" you see on ebay are scams, the ONLY tuning device is HPTuners (http://www.hptuners.com). The 2.2 was used on a lot more vehicles than the 2.4 was. People mod the 2.2 just the same you would mod the 2.4 over a 3400 or 5.1. Its the modders choice, its a hobby, not a contest.
3. We don't have MAF's. There is plenty of space around the engine for air to bounce off the road and into the engine bay. There is also an air dam on the front that directs air up into the engine bay.





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^^^
what shifted said

ill add my 2 cents

1. the only time you need to add higher octane gas is if you run nitrous, supercharger, turbo, or a high compression engine. other than that stick with 87 octane. any higher and its a waste of money
2. having this kind of thinking "why would anyone want to mod the total dog of an engine the 2.2 is?" really sucks. people have made decent power in those. and like shifted said. the 2.2 was around more than the 2.4 more cars had them. so its only natural that more of that engine are around
and the only puter upgrade is hptuners. everything else is junk



Im a Xbox 360 fanboy...and damn proud of it!!

Octane doesnt give performance eh?..... The car doesnt have an octane sensor???? Lol.. I know this lol. No car does. What it does have, that every other has as well, is a computer, that is in constant trial, in trying to push its basline timing forward. But only to a degree. It only has soo much room to play. Even my 87 buick has it. the higher octane ya throw in, the further your computer can advance its timing, resulting in more optimal gas mileage, and felt performance. ALLL cars do this. Its just some have more leeway in their computers. Take the high compression engine of a lamborghini. You throw sub standard 86 octane in there, and youre going to get knock, but putting 91 octane, would prevent the knock, but putting 94 in it, would allow the computer to advance to the fullest, and give more power. On normal passenger cars like the j bodies, im sure that theres only about 3 points worth of octane differential programmed into its computer calculations (im not sure if that came out right, but im sure you can get the point) theres a point though, since its a passenger car, and not a performance vehicle, that the computer doesnt need anymore octane, to get to its optimal area.
Was wondering if its 91? 92? I know that you go as far down before knocking, but no stock j body would ever knock on pump gas, unless it was in horrible condition in the combustion chambers, or your state offers 95 octane in the summertime....

And I was wondering, your true cold air intakes, dont lower your air intake temperatures vs the short rams?
Im guessing maybe, cuz your engine bays arent that hot to begin with... Ours are SUPER hot, cuz of our (stock setups anyway) horrible stock cooling system, and our turbos heating up the engine bays like an oven. I can see why you wouldnt opt to run one now. So my question is i guess, where in the HECK do you mount your short ram, on an '01 2.4?? theres NO room whatsoever in this thing... God help you guys if you drop a wrench in your engine bays while working on your cars... You'd NEVER find it lol.

Quote:


Octane doesnt give performance eh?..... The car doesnt have an octane sensor???? Lol.. I know this lol. No car does. What it does have, that every other has as well, is a computer, that is in constant trial, in trying to push its basline timing forward. But only to a degree. It only has soo much room to play. Even my 87 buick has it. the higher octane ya throw in, the further your computer can advance its timing, resulting in more optimal gas mileage, and felt performance. ALLL cars do this.

Your right, but here's the kicker...

The computer uses the high octane table until it sees knock, then it starts to "learn" towards the low octane table. If you aren't getting ANY knock, then guess what, you are in the high octane table, and adding a higher octane gas will not give you any more timing. So use the lowest grade gas that does not give you knock, that will result in the highest power the ECU has to offer.





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then why is there such a huge performance difference between 87 and 94 octane in her car? It totally registers on the butt dyno. And no, I'm experienced enough to discern between genuine and imagined performance differences.

tony nonya wrote: where in the HECK do you mount your short ram, on an '01 2.4??

When you open your hood, you should see a flat black surface towards the front of the engine. This is known as the plenum, on one end you have the trottle/manifold, on the other you have a flexible S-tube, and filter. Below the filter, in the fender is a gigantic waste of plastic--the bong.

Some short ram intakes fit right up to the plenum, some fit right up to the throttle body, and you remove everything that the stock intake has -plenum/tube/filter box/filter/bong. The short ram, puts the filter in roughly the same spot as the stock location, and runs a metal/plastic equal diameter tube to the plenum or throttle body. Filter is behind the battery.

I have a true cold air intake on my car, I love it, but I really doubt any difference was made. It is the induction dynamics cold air, with k&n filter in the bumper. The tube winds around the battery and down through a hole in the fender, where the filter sits hidden up in the bumper.
Hope i helped

I see. I knew you had to remove some stuff, but not that much. this is for my girls car not mine. i rarely look under her hood. shes drives the sunfire. i drive the bmw. i was just lookin for a way to get a few more hp for her. another question. hows the stock maf's on your cars. (if there is one) whats the highest gr/sec worth of flow it can meter? do any of these filter mods max out your mafs at all?