Alright so i already built my motor for a boosted application.
went to a machine shop (crap one at that) they said i shouldnt have to worry about the oil pump
come to find out it is a hack job place and i never got my stuff serviced.
i went to Bryants engine Machine shop in Mount Morris (just advice for anyone near flint area of MI)
and they werent sure. But gave me great service and good pricing. i rushed the job now i have a finished built motor with yes sigh still a 2.4 oil pump.
Please no one criticize im already beating myself up about it
BUT i am willing to do what it takes to get the job done and do it right. my attitude has changed and my work ethic is better than it has been.
anywhoo
i see all bigger Horsepower applications use the 2.3 setup.
obviouly i didnt
question is
HOW IMPORTANT IS IT TO SWAP IN THIS PUMP FOR A BOOSTED APPLICATION (10-13 PSI)???
IS THIS MOD JUST FOR PERFORMANCE GAINS BY HAVING THE BALANCE SHAFTS REMOVED OR IS THIS A ABSOLUTE MUST HAVE AND IF NOT INSTALLED CAN CHANCE BIG RISK????
Thanks in Advance for anyone who has replied to the post
Koop
Lasty is this a sticky, computer has been acting so i cant search for some stupid reason
If you are boosted on stock cams, you should be fine. If you intend to raise your rev limiter however, it is highly advised to run the 2.3L pump or a dry sump.
-
"Youth in Asia"...I don't see anything wrong with that.
I mean i would like to run slightly higher than 6500. just between 6500 and 7000.
Turbo Tech Recommended a good turbo but i lost the email.
my list
secret cams
9:1 compression
Forged Pistons
TTR Competition head
2.5 Exhaust
Ebay header (actually not bad)
Forged eagle rods.
ARP head studs
Cometic Head Gasket
New oil Pump and water (general rebuild stuff, machine work and gaskets)
underdrive pulley
WAI
Swapped in 5-Speed
Tec3 Kit waiting for Install
I think the Turbo was a T3/T04B not sure on trim sizes
I recieved an email a while back from Mike Karas and asked him.
he told me "you should be just fine with a 60 trim compressor in a normal mid A/R T04E housing and a stage 3 .63 A/R exhaust wheel and housing."
What do you guys think. As far as how much boost can i run and how much power can be made (with 2.4 pump)
Also what do you think if i had the 2.3 pump what i could do.
Thanks Again
Koop
I rev to about 7k on stock valvetrain, and I see a little oil pressure drop above 6500. It's only about 5-7 psi, but it's still a drop.
2000 Camaro V6.
| SLP Loudmouth | CAI Intake | HID's |
im runnin a new melling oil pump...people have had success with it too from what I hear
Keep in mind the highest HP 2.4 is running the stock style 2.4 oiling system.
FU Tuning
John Higgins wrote:Keep in mind the highest HP 2.4 is running the stock style 2.4 oiling system.
~2014 New Z under the knife, same heart different body~
______________________
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2012 numbers - 4SPD
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328 HP
306 TQ
actually the only real reason to get this swap is if you ever want to run safely above 5800rpm. There has been about 10-15 arguments about this (i have been in a couple) and the end result we all pretty much agreed on.. when GM designed the engine and the 2000-2002 GM s/c kit, on the engine dyno the engine started loosing oil pressure with a stock pump. The reason being was the smaller 2.4 (compaired to the 2.3) spins too fast and cavitates (aerates, foams) the oil and cause air to flow with the oil.
Having said that, people have successfully ported (have read about) 2.4 oil pump systems, and balanced the shafts and will argue that the 2.4 pump can be just as good, this may be the case.. but if you are reading this far, you know why you want to do the swap, and have decided whether or not you are going to do the swap.
I think I went over the reasons that I did it. 1)turbo charged, so I run a larger pan with 5.5 liters instead of 4.4.. to decrease oil duty cycle 2)proven to not loose oil pressure to my set redline 3)oil pump sits almost 1" lower than stock 4)complete windage tray 5) less rotational mass. Could I have the same horsepower with the 2.4 pump??? I would say very likely.
I would just like to add that under hard cornering even with the oil level full your stock pump will suck air not oil. With more oil and the pick up sitting lower this problem should be eliminated by doing the 2.3 swap. Also since the weakest link on the 2.4 engines seems to be lack of lubrication of the rod bearing, this would be my #1 concern.
FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!
It is NOT necessary.
But if you like to waste money, time and have head aches then do it.
Keep in mind that there have been people with the 2.3L oil pump that had spun their bearing too (search it).
And like someone said^ people with the highest HP 2.4 are running the stock style 2.4 oiling system.
Also people are doing auto-crosses with their 2.4L standard pump and are just doing fine as well.
If you really want to do something worthwhile, go dry sump.
>>>For Sale? Clicky!<<<
-----The orginal Mr.Goodwrench on the JBO since 11/99-----
7k rpm shift points for me and no issues on a motor which is at 115k
[quote=97trd(???™)]7k rpm shift points for me and no issues on a motor which is at 115k
7000 rpm shift points for me too and I my rod bearing went on mine at 68,000 miles. I always used synthetic oil and changed both the oil and filter every 2000 miles. I always kept it full to the top of the line too. I do not know what else to blame but the lack of oil pressure.
FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!
Wade Jarvis wrote:[quote=97trd(???™)]7k rpm shift points for me and no issues on a motor which is at 115k
7000 rpm shift points for me too and I my rod bearing went on mine at 68,000 miles. I always used synthetic oil and changed both the oil and filter every 2000 miles. I always kept it full to the top of the line too. I do not know what else to blame but the lack of oil pressure.
Pressure is not the blame. Pressure is nice, but if you do not have volume you have nothing. You can increase oiling to areas that need it (such as the bearings) with machine work. I'm in no way saying there is not a issue with the 2.4 oil system (there is), but the 2.3 swap is not the only way to fix the problem. I agree there is benefits to doing the 2.3 swap, but I will probably never do it. The only reason I would do it if I was to would be to get rid of the balanced shafts. Still there is ways to deal with that as well.
FU Tuning
John Higgins wrote:Wade Jarvis wrote:[quote=97trd(???™)]7k rpm shift points for me and no issues on a motor which is at 115k
7000 rpm shift points for me too and I my rod bearing went on mine at 68,000 miles. I always used synthetic oil and changed both the oil and filter every 2000 miles. I always kept it full to the top of the line too. I do not know what else to blame but the lack of oil pressure.
Pressure is not the blame. Pressure is nice, but if you do not have volume you have nothing. You can increase oiling to areas that need it (such as the bearings) with machine work. I'm in no way saying there is not a issue with the 2.4 oil system (there is), but the 2.3 swap is not the only way to fix the problem. I agree there is benefits to doing the 2.3 swap, but I will probably never do it. The only reason I would do it if I was to would be to get rid of the balanced shafts. Still there is ways to deal with that as well.
I supose I should have said that I blame lack of lubrication. What can be done as far as machine work?
FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!
I wanted to say thanks to everyone who responded to the post. you guys are great.
i wanted to do more machine work and the 2.3L swap but honestly im not sure why i like the phrase better safe then sorry but i got kinda ansy. so now im a little worried.
i saw a couple guys say the highest HP guys right stock 2.4L pumps. is that true? What kind of torque/HP are they getting? What kind of Rev range? power adder setup?
again thanks to everyone to replied.
i apprecite that there is site like this for all of us to go to when we need questions.
Koop
I've pushed 432hp 424tq.......... still using the 2.4L oil pump... I'm not using the GM/ACDelco oil pump but one made by Clevitte. I run synthetic oil. I rev to about 6500-6600 at the track. I'm running a turbo at approximately 15lbs of boost, this is a GT30R, think super efficient T3/T4...................................... and there you have it.
-Trailblazer SS - not so custom 6.0L - custom intake - custom tune
- (1) 2.4L on an engine stand (1) blown trans (2) good quad trans (1) eco trans = party
How many oil pumps are available for the 2.4L and which is the best? What are these way to improve oiling to the rod bearings? So what some of you are saying is, with the right valve train, reving to 7000rpm is just fine or is there a drop in presure? I also heard that the motor is meant for more oil than it's rated for, is that true?
- Paul
YOu can cross drill the crank for more oiling, and chaffer (spelling) oil holes as well. There is other things that is a little over my head in knowledge and machining.
FU Tuning
I think the most importnat reason to perform the swap is not only higher oil volume but removal of the balance shafts. Ya, you can neutralize them but you will still have the crappy chain in there creating a nice failure point. The less things moving around IMO the better. I've seen those damn chains take several motors so far.
What I've done is crossdrilled the crankshaft and chamfered both sides of the oil hole and I'm still doing the swap just to remove moving parts.
I did the 2.3 pump swap and i sit right at 50psi at idle
Well I had my stock motor spin the bearings when I was gettin on it at 6000 rpm so on my turbo motor I'm having the 2.3 oil pump swap done along with having the oil passages to the mains enlarged to feed more oil to the mains and rods as well as having Atomic make me a sheel metal oil pan with baffles which should hold 6.5 - 7 quarts of oil. I am also going to be using an oil cooler and I'm installing an oil pressure gauge in order to be able to keep track of everything.
2000 Z24 5spd header & catback for now.
wow just wow..
so for the past two years my motor has been a ticking time bomb revving to 6500rpm? OMGZ
-Trailblazer SS - not so custom 6.0L - custom intake - custom tune
- (1) 2.4L on an engine stand (1) blown trans (2) good quad trans (1) eco trans = party
I beat on my LD9 way to many times, and never seen the oil pressure drop in the over two thousand times down the track. Mine is up in the high 60's low 70's at WOT at redline. Engine is dying from bad piston rings on cylinder 3.
I would machine the oil passage ways .020" over and clean up all edges, and you will be more than fine, but the 2.3 oil pump swap can not hurt with the added flow.
PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO
-MD- LD9 wrote:I beat on my LD9 way to many times, and never seen the oil pressure drop in the over two thousand times down the track. Mine is up in the high 60's low 70's at WOT at redline. Engine is dying from bad piston rings on cylinder 3.
I would machine the oil passage ways .020" over and clean up all edges, and you will be more than fine, but the 2.3 oil pump swap can not hurt with the added flow.
Well you have a freak of a 2.4 with that kind of oil pressure on up to temp oil.
FU Tuning
Wade Jarvis wrote:actually the only real reason to get this swap is if you ever want to run safely above 5800rpm. There has been about 10-15 arguments about this (i have been in a couple) and the end result we all pretty much agreed on.. when GM designed the engine and the 2000-2002 GM s/c kit, on the engine dyno the engine started loosing oil pressure with a stock pump. The reason being was the smaller 2.4 (compaired to the 2.3) spins too fast and cavitates (aerates, foams) the oil and cause air to flow with the oil.
Having said that, people have successfully ported (have read about) 2.4 oil pump systems, and balanced the shafts and will argue that the 2.4 pump can be just as good, this may be the case.. but if you are reading this far, you know why you want to do the swap, and have decided whether or not you are going to do the swap.
I think I went over the reasons that I did it. 1)turbo charged, so I run a larger pan with 5.5 liters instead of 4.4.. to decrease oil duty cycle 2)proven to not loose oil pressure to my set redline 3)oil pump sits almost 1" lower than stock 4)complete windage tray 5) less rotational mass. Could I have the same horsepower with the 2.4 pump??? I would say very likely.
I would just like to add that under hard cornering even with the oil level full your stock pump will suck air not oil. With more oil and the pick up sitting lower this problem should be eliminated by doing the 2.3 swap. Also since the weakest link on the 2.4 engines seems to be lack of lubrication of the rod bearing, this would be my #1 concern.
Nice, I remember typing the exact same thing
, oh wait, I did type that.
HP Tuners | Garrett T3/T04B | 2.5" Charge Pipes | 2.5" Downpipe | 650 Injectors | HO Manifold | Addco front/rear | Motor Mounts | HKS SSQV | Spec stage 3 | AEM UEGO Wideband | Team Green LSD | FMIC | 2.3 cams | 2.3 oil pump swap | 280WHP | Now ECOTECED
SpyhunteR wrote:wow just wow..
so for the past two years my motor has been a ticking time bomb revving to 6500rpm? OMGZ
So your whole oiling system is stock?
- Paul
