right now im stuck between the two the jbp kit comes with everything i need but i hear a lot of good things from the patriot but if i get that i will have to piece together the rest of it, so what are your opinions?
personally I wont buy anythign form JBP or Patriot
Darkstars wrote:personally I wont buy anythign form JBP or Patriot
Guess I'm not alone in that boat...
fortune cookie say: better a delay than a disaster
Just get some 10 inch plastic spinning wheel covers and pretend you have the 3800 JBP head and pistons, huh? how does that sound ?
Why not buy from patriot? I completely understand the JBP. They suck.
I have a patriot head, for the ln2 and it's a great head.
VTLoki wrote:I have a patriot head, for the ln2 and it's a great head.
1) CNC'ed heads require massive tolerences because no two heads are the same.
2) CNC'ed heads can not be custom ported, they are all pretty much the same, so you get what you get, regardless of application.
3) Patriot's "upgraded" LN2 valvetrain is stock.
4) They've messed up way too many V8 heads in the past.
5) For that price I'd rather buy a VERY nice Foredom grinder, build myself a flowbench, and give it a good porting... and still have $$$ left over.
They are a decent alternative for people who just want to "have it now", and don't mind paying for the work. I'll just never fall under that category.
fortune cookie say: better a delay than a disaster
Patriot is very well known for major failures in V8 world. There flow bench numbers aren't worth the paper they print them on, some f-body guys have actually flowed the patriot heads and gotten numbers no better then stock. There valve train is a complete joke....think about it, the bare is liek $1000.... and for a COMPLETE installed valvetrain its $200 more.... look into the cost of quailty valve train parts liek ferra... springs and retainers sell for about $700 thats not even including the valves themself.... a decent valvetrian is up near $1,000.... I'm not gonna trust there crap when they sell it for $200, if they were using good quality parts they would be loosing money.
IMO they saw a market without any competition and jumped on it. Think about it, there is Patriot.... and GMPP.... with GMPP head w/ valvetrain costing insane money the only afordable option for a ready to install head is patriot. Anythign else your gonna have to take your head/spare head and have it ported by someone who hopefully does a good job and flow benches there stuff as they go, and piece together valvetrain etc..
OHV notec wrote:VTLoki wrote:I have a patriot head, for the ln2 and it's a great head.
1) CNC'ed heads require massive tolerences because no two heads are the same.
2) CNC'ed heads can not be custom ported, they are all pretty much the same, so you get what you get, regardless of application.
3) Patriot's "upgraded" LN2 valvetrain is stock.
4) They've messed up way too many V8 heads in the past.
5) For that price I'd rather buy a VERY nice Foredom grinder, build myself a flowbench, and give it a good porting... and still have $$$ left over.
They are a decent alternative for people who just want to "have it now", and don't mind paying for the work. I'll just never fall under that category.
I stand corrected. I wasn't aware of any failures of theirs in the V8 market. I was aware that their valve train was stock, but the prices you mentioned were off. I got the bare head for $550 shipped. I had no head to begin with, my stock one was destroyed. So, for $550, that was only slightly more expensive then a refurbish one from a junk yard ($300). I was also concerned with quality, which at the time, I thought patriot was reliable. from what you guys are telling me, I may be mistaken about it. i guess only time will tell, if the head breaks.
Patriot has had failures on V8s, but so have other companies. Everyone makes it sound like Patriot is the only company to ever have problems. I'm also sure that not 100% of the issues were their fault.
I used to race cars, now I race myself.
5K PB: 24:50
10K PB: 54:26
Team Vision Racing (aka hypsy) wrote:Patriot has had failures on V8s, but so have other companies. Everyone makes it sound like Patriot is the only company to ever have problems. I'm also sure that not 100% of the issues were their fault.
your right other companies have had failures as well.... yet they are not singled out and I'm sure theres a reason for it... maybe they warrantied there stuff plus related damage? Maybe they warranty parts longer then a year? Maybe their failures are less frequent? Maybe failures aren't as major? Who knows the reasoning but if Patriot has made a reputation for selling crap and the other companies have not I'm sure theres a reason for it.
As for the second part your right, like with any and every part failures can/have/will happen form improper installation or improper use... but at the same time I don't think everyone who messes up an install has bought Patriot stuff an not other comapnies... theres no way its only patriot customers having self made problems... so I don't see how thats a valid point in defending Patriot. Every company has people who mess up there stuff, but again there has to be a reason Patriot has gotten there reputation.
The only first hand experience i've had is that the head looks good, and is ported pretty well (looks, not performance based opinion).
The ports are a tiny bit larger then the gaskets from felpro. I don't know if that was a positive or neg....
They did my valve seats for my +1mm valves for free. I shipped them the 1mm valves, and they did the valve seats for them. In terms of visual looks, it's the best looking head i've seen. haha. I just got my car running last night, so haven't had a chance to run it at all. My car had been sitting a year, and i just got around to ordering some new wiseco pistons, and reassembling the bottom end, and the whole engine. I'll try to see if I can tell a difference from before. I had a g-tech reading from last time, maybe i'll do another and see if there was a difference. G-tech in my opinion isn't good for getting accurate numbers, but it is good at noticing a difference, assuming you keep the variables the same.
I'm not casting a vote either way, but I will just see how my head holds up.
I to will say I've seen there head in person, actually I saw Hypsy's head, it definetly looked nice. I've just seen 2 many bad reviews for me to go with the patriot head on my build. if going with patriotis really what people have there minds set on at least get a bare head and fill it with your own valvetrian
well nobody has had issues with an eco that i know of, and thats all the matters as far as track records
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
For once I agree with Matt. We are all building 4 cylinder motors, not 8s. There hasn't been a single case of a Patriot head failing on the Ecotec or LN2, so why even discuss this.
I used to race cars, now I race myself.
5K PB: 24:50
10K PB: 54:26
