I know already that many people will chime in and say that a ground wire kit does not do anything.
They are quick to judge this upgrade, as this is the 2nd car I have used a ground wire kit on and it made a very pronounced positive impact.

My wife's Sunfire has had a few mods done and each mod done, I can always tell the difference it has made.
First it was the 2 1/4" catback exhaust, then the K&N filter, then I went and added a 2 1/2" resonator and 2 1/4".

I have driven this car so much I know how it excellerates and how responsive it is/ was.

This mod claims a 5-8hp gain difference, but I say 5hp. Why?
This mod literally has the same boost in responsiveness and excelleration/ affect difference as when I added the 2 1/2" resonator and 2 1/4" cat which costed me a lot more $$$.

Each RPM now has a little more output, but did it add 5hp to max output?
I doubt it, but I bet it did add at least 1.

I am watching the speedo climb a lot quicker and more responsively along with the fact I can feel the difference.

The idle is a lot better, and I can hear through the 2 1/4" exhaust how much smoother it is and through the steering wheel there is almost no vibration (no it wasn't vibrating hard before). The car also starts on the first click more consitantly now.

If you do not like this mod, just don't buy it, but it is your loss as it is one more avenue to go down to add more output, and it is inexpensive and easy to do. It only cost me $25 shipped and is the best bang for the buck in my opinion and yes it was the E-bay gold looking wheel El Cheapo kit. It it the same kit that has worked great on an older 1989 Daytona of mine and now it has worked on the 2003 Sunfire like a charm.

I did not get the kit with the voltage regulator as I am a little worried about a connector going between the positive and negative on the battery, I am picturing sparks flying. If someone has done this particular mod, please let me know how it turned out.

I originally thought after hearing so many say that these kits don't work that maybe, just maybe, the Daytona being that old that the grounding was just bad and I fixed it with a ground wire kit. Well, the 2003 Sunfire did not show any aging on the grounding point which is the wire harness off the battery that connects onto the battery bucket. So it was not a fix that resulted in gaining back horsepower. The car just runs that more efficiently thanks to a more even flow of electricity to the alternator, computer, injectors and spark plugs.

I installed the mount for the kit onto that ground point on the battery bucket as the battery has an incompatible mount to the battery itself for the kit. I dremilled one of the holes larger to fit the large ground mount screw, and it took about 30 minutes to install. There is a mount on the left and right of the fuel rail, one on the tranny, one on the strut tower, one on the frame, one on the back of the motor, and one on the alternator.

Too many people guess these that these kits do not work. If you say they don't, then please just show me the before and after dyno results that shows it doesn't. It works on this Sunfire and much much better than I would hope for especially since it is on a new car. I am also thinking about buying some more cables or making my own to attach to a few more points, but just 2 more.

I have no reason to lie, I want others to enjoy the added boost this inexpensive mod makes and not get talked out of it from people who have believed rumors or lies. Don't take that as a cut, I have been told some wrong things that sounded feasible also on other things, live and learn.

Mike Tampa wrote:

This mod claims a 5-8hp gain difference, but I say 5hp. Why?
This mod literally has the same boost in responsiveness and excelleration/ affect difference as when I added the 2 1/2" resonator and 2 1/4" cat which costed me a lot more $$$.

a resonator and cat don't add any power and your basing your claims off you butt dyno

/thread

I will repeat, the cat and resonator DID make a difference.

http://www.isuzuperformance.com/isupage/tech/build.html#Engine

If you think a catback alone makes no up and go difference because it is only opening up the exhaust after the cat, then you are of the same crowd that thinks incremental increases makes no difference in power and are wrong.

If you think that an exhaust that is not only complimented by a catback but has a high flow cat along with a huge resonator makes no difference in power because it still has a stock manifold and downpipe, you are wrong. Ask anyone that has done 'just' a catback alone, then ask someone how much better it was after they added the high flow cat. The resonator being 2 1/2 inches is to quite the exhaust, not to make power, BUT it adds an equivelant 2 1/4 inch pipe rather than the stock 1 7/8 inch. It DOES make a positive difference, the car IS faster.

The ground wire kit made the same up and go difference as the high flow cat, of which most people have posted 3-5 hp for the cat alone. The cat alone may only add in a stock exhaust 1 or 2 hp, but in a modified exhaust it does put out 5hp easily.

Some car designs thanks to the computer or the need for back pressure for that particular engine, do not gain as much as others. On the Ecotec, it has an already efficient intake, in other words it has enough air coming in to not choke at any given RPM. But on the exhaust side it is weak. On my 3.8 Series II Firebird, the intake was @!#$ and the exhaust was already close to optimal.

I know for fact that the 03 Sunfire is faster than it was, it is not a slight difference, or a fluke, I know this car very well. I watch the speedo a lot on excelleration and know that the difference is more than just a feeling.

There are too many guessers on the net who have never done the before and after of mods they bash.
Please try it first then add input.

You are so funny! "Each RPM now has a little more output, but did it add 5hp to max output? I doubt it, but I bet it did add at least 1." You will not feel a 1hp difference. Your butt dyno is worthless. Come back when you have some real dyno proof that it works before demanding we provide to you dyno proof it doesn't. Later KID

You have no proof of anything so qiut arguing you internet tool. Maybe you could try showing us the difference it made in your 1/4 mile time at the dragsrtip if it really make the difference you claim.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Monday, December 24, 2007 10:39 AM


FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!

Don't buy the kit and lose out, I am 110% fine with that!

I asked for proof because I know for a fact you have not even tried this mod. So how is anyone going to know it makes a positive difference ever? From people who actually have tried is how. That is SO stupid to try and spend $100ish to dyno a $25 mod that adds 5hp, never going to happen!

Wake up intellectual giant, lmfao!

it may reclaim 1-2 lost hp due to naow adding lower resistance power wiring for the alt / grounds, thereby making the alt not work "as" hard, but it won't add to anything.

Hey, Quit arguing with me and just go back to talking about how you watch your speedo alot since you have no proof. It makes for good entertainment.




FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!

Darkstars, I know you have modded your Cavalier to the maximum, and i seriously doubt you left your cat stock.
The more flow, the more HP.

A cat that is smaller than the rest of the exhaust 'is' a restriction.

Actually Wade, it is entertaining to hear you try and condescend and then add in Later Kid to the mix like your the mature one here.

Kardain, I agree more with you, but I doubt I would ever have felt 2hp reclaimed.

It is like a underdrive pulley, it is reclaimed hp. Saying it 'gained' is still correct as it has more hp than it did before whether it is given back or not. But if you want to get technical, your right it is reclaimed.

Mike Tampa wrote:Darkstars, I know you have modded your Cavalier to the maximum, and i seriously doubt you left your cat stock.
The more flow, the more HP.

A cat that is smaller than the rest of the exhaust 'is' a restriction.

Actually that all depends on how big you go. You can just cut the ends off and weld a 2-1/2 peice off pipe to them. The inside has a larger diameter than2-1/2 inches.

When I say KID it means you have alot to learn. For example don't expect to be taken seriously when you come into the performance forum talking about gains from your butt dyno.




Edited 2 time(s). Last edited Monday, December 24, 2007 11:02 AM


FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!

I can't do that though because of the emissions unfortunately.

This Sunfire is only for getting to work so I am not trying to make a race car, I am modding it to give a slight edge.

Also it has a Bomber body-kit and VIS carbon hood, of which I hate cars that have only visual mods and no performance mods to back it.

I have to install the strut brace that I bought a few months ago.

I can't decide on a header, as the ones I can afford seem to be hit or miss.

When the suspension goes, I will go with either some Koni or KB struts and shocks.
I might even get the front and rear sway bar kit soon.

I came to the conclusion of 5hp based on these factors:

The said mods I did made a certain up and go difference as the ground wire kit.

I looked all over the net and found a few realistic quotes for gains of said mods.

The kit itself say it supposed to gain 5-8hp, and I don't believe 8hp so I will say 5hp sounds feasible.

If it is 3 or less, I doubt I would have noticed it at all.

So there is the deduction, whether or not it is correct.

If it is even 3hp, $25 is pretty cheap for that gain.

It also helps the car run better and that is always a good thing!

I would put that strut tower brace on asap. You should go back and fill out your registry a more and upload some pics of your car.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Monday, December 24, 2007 11:17 AM


FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!

my only response to this thread so far is jsut wow.....haha



My car may run 18s, but I can do your taxes in 10 seconds flat.
JBO lube - they would never have enough in stock and we'd never see RodimusPrime again

there is a thing called suropting mods, if you have a built motor with a fully done up head and valve train, cams meant for boost and a 3" exhaust with a 2" cat... then yes you'll see a huge difference from a high flow 3" cat. Acording your post it already had 2.25" exhaust... adding a resonator is not going to add power. As for the cat, your still on a stock exhaust manifold with very minimal airflow mods.... your not going to see much if any gain from adding a high flow cat casue at that point the cat isn't really hurting you unless its clogged, theres not a chance you "felt" a difference in performance from those 2 things, you wanted to feel a difference becasue you spent the money.... and thast why the butt dyno is a crock of @!#$. I added a ceramic coated header, high flow cat, manderal bent full 2.25" exhaust all at once i was disaapointed becasue there was preaty much no noticable gain in power. The only time it actually seemed to help was 65+ mph pulls in 3rd gear. Hell a 35 shot of nitrous was disapointing becasue of how small of a difference you feel.... I hit it and I'm liek wtf you have to be kidding me. If a 35 shot feels liek almost nothing then there is no way in hell your feeling a difference. Its in your head.


As for it not being worth dynoing a $25 mod.... thats a bunch of crap... $5 per horse power is a hell of a deal in the 4 cylinder world. That makes that mod as money effecive as puting 100 shot of nitrous on a car for $500.


Untill theres proven gains (somethign bigger then dyno run to dyno run variations) I don't believe it and I will NEVER believe you can feel the difference, its not gonna happen.

Yeah, I've added the big 3 upgrade to a few cars, I never noticed a power increase.

The charging system benefits kick ass no doubt, but you really are experiencing the placebo effect.

Somewhat off topic but just for reference of dynoing cheap mods, we dynoed a stock paper filter on a stock intake set up on a 95 3100 Beretta, and then a K&N drop in filter. 1.5 peak hp and 1 ft/lb difference to the wheels... on the street that = nothing in seat of the pants feel.

i did this a while back..the car felt stronger when i took it back off...and MY butt dyno never lies ...

I thought this was a joke at first lol God I love the .ORG.

So u know, I put a Pacesetter header, 2.25 magnaflow cat, 2.25 magnaflow muffler and res,, all with 2.25 piping, then a AEM CAI onto my car then dyno'd it. I gained a wopping 7hp to the wheels. No WAY the grounding kit adds 5hp on a stock motor. Stop hangin around with people who shop at walmart for their performance mods.

And on a side note, if I make a CAI, and i anna sell it. Of course im gunna say it makes big power. Which would u buy, the one that says "it could possible make power" or makes "8-10hp". ur a sucker.

I will have to update the profile soon.

I am hoping I got a digital camera for Christmas, my last one died about a year ago.

That strut brace has some adjustment points that I need to dial in then JB Weld, I am wondering if I should do it or have someone else do it. What is the torque rating for the strut tower nuts?

Anyways, I can't sit here and swear up and down just to convince anyone as it wont go anywhere with the ones that ingrained it in their mind that this mod has no value. It seems that no one ever trusts even when dynos are posted- they would just say it is a photo-shop forgery anyways.

I know what I know, it was not a placebo affect. I have been driving this car for a long time, I know the difference it made end of story and that the mod has helped. Just like I am not convincing you, you are never going to convince me that it is a placebo.

There is also the phenomenon that a car with 200-300 hp would never notice a 5hp gain.

But on a Sunfire, it is a lot more noticeable.

I will be getting rid of that exhaust manifold and down pipe within 6 months most definitely.

I am rethinking getting the supercharger after I hear how picky it is and the problems people face with the weather change.

Anyone else that has done this mod, chime in whether or not it is to support or bash. It worked for my car, it might mean my car needed the ground done for whatever reason and I gained back more than one would expect. Maybe my cat also needed replaced, and the extra flow did give me back 5hp. Whatever the reason is, my car with 85k miles benefited a lot from these mods.

Why would you be JB welding anything on your strut tower bar. As for the tq on the strut tower bolts-I just use a 1/4 ractchet and go just until it feels snug.

Also I do not know what you read or why it would cause you to rethink the supercharger!?!?

YOUR CAT DOES NOT NEED REPLACED Save yourself some money and leave it alone.



FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!

Quote:

YOUR CAT DOES NOT NEED REPLACED Save yourself some money and leave it alone.

EPA recommends 8 years or 80k. GM warranties theirs for the same time period. See: Emission Control Systems Warranties

While it may not need replacing, its not a bad idea.

I picked up on the added 5hp from the butt dyno, when he added the resonator and cat...

What I'd like to know, is why he added a 2 1/2 resonator, when he's got a 2 1/4 cat-back?

Mike Tampa, you are an idiot.

Just listen to everyone else.

The grounding wires, do not do anything.





Portage, MI

That seems slightly out of line, he just doesn't understand the butt dyno lies.

Michael Antle wrote:I picked up on the added 5hp from the butt dyno, when he added the resonator and cat...

What I'd like to know, is why he added a 2 1/2 resonator, when he's got a 2 1/4 cat-back?

becasue almost every j-body catback doesn't have a resonator... I'm not sure about you but me personally... I don't want my car sounding a tin can filled with imbreed bees





**Edit** I forgot a word


Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Monday, December 24, 2007 8:12 PM