Why do so many people hate the 2.2L 2200 OHV motor. I have on in my cavy and i think is a great motor and i was suprise by the performance of it stock.
im gonna guess youve never dealt with the eco
the 2200 is a great running motor, but it is limited on perfomance
OHC engines are better for performance applications
04 Ranger EDGE"of insanity"
Sonic Blue 4.0 4x4 32"'s
Another cav? maybe? 2.4? 5spd? only time can tell
not necessarily. It just depends on how much money you want to spend on an engine.
Infantry!!!
when it comes to modding dollar for dollar you will see the most gains out of an eco, decent gains out of a 2.4 TC (somewhat debateable between eco and 2.4), and the least gain out of a 2200
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Sunday, February 24, 2008 7:23 PM
well imo a 2200 isnt worth the money it would take to match some of the eco's and ld9's
its just easier to swap in or start with a better motor, rather than spend all the time and countless dollars making a 2.2 non eco
04 Ranger EDGE"of insanity"
Sonic Blue 4.0 4x4 32"'s
Another cav? maybe? 2.4? 5spd? only time can tell
because its weak
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
LoL leave the poor 2200 alone what did it ever do to you lol
It's kinda like a Honda. Most base model Hondas come with that piddly lil' engine that makes NO torque and can barely make it up hills. The first thing any real Honda enthusiast does is dump the crap motor that came stock, and stuff a VTEC (YO!) engine in there. (Keep in mind.. I'm not a Honda guy... never have been, and likely never will be... so I don't know engine codes or whatever.... but I know what I see the Honda boys doing.) Very few of them keep the stock motor and try to upgrade it... it's just more cost-effective, dollar for horsepower, to start with a motor that has more power to begin with... and is easier to add parts to without breaking the bank.
Example: I can get a 2.2L Ecotec with transmission for $600. Swap that into any 2200 car... more horsepower! And reliable! Try and get 30 hp out of $600, reliably, on a 2200 (it's not going to happen).
Now realistically... J-bodies are cheap cars. So are most of their owners, myself included. If I can't do it myself, it usually doesn't happen to the car. I can swap motors, but the average joe can't... so they run what they've got.... pretty simple.
Terrible performing motor + all of the people who keep on asking questions relentlessly about how to make it faster = everybody hating 2200.
Why? Because 90% (actually, thats probably giving too much credit) percent of people on this site don't know a goddam thing about engines. If they can't bolt on some horsepower inside of a few hours on a saturday, that means that the whole motor is worthless. The 2200's limitations are in the mostly in the head and the cam, so bolt ons don't do much. So when people spend $1500 for intakes, underdrive pullies, bigger throttle bodies (which are rarely worth a damn on any car), header, exhaust, etc, and then are still lucky to run a high 15, they get pissed off when they see guys with the eco or LD9 slapping on the same mods and getting better results.
Meanwhile, had they paid attention to the research of the people who had come before and devoted their money to fixing the main issues of head flow and a weak cam, they would have had much more success. There was a 13 second all motor OHV long before the ecotec existed, and it was automatic to boot.
As for being "weak", I see Ecotecs snapping stock rods and pistons at the same, or lower power levels than LN2's. The only failures i've seen on here of an LN2 came from poor tuning (pre-hpt using only FMU's for fuel control and zero adjustments to timing), or lack of maintenance...
As for the cost comparisons, seriously, I have to laugh. The overall cost of an eco swap will buy the parts to put together a pretty damn decent turbo kit. An eco swap will take, bare minimum, $1000 overall, maybe up to $2000, depending on where you live, what the yards have available, and what you're willing to spend, and you'll still only be making 120-130ish WHP. The same amount of money will get you within 5-10 hp of that on an OHV anyway, or if you go boosted, 70+ hp more than an eco swap.
Back before his eco swap, a ported head and the basic bolt on gear got PJ's OHV to 115 hp n/a with no tuning, stock sized valves, stock cam, stock compression, stock rockers, etc. While the port job looked good visually, at the time he didn't know well enough to ask for a before and after flow sheet, so we don't really know how much better it was than stock. More recently, Nitrous Nate made 130 whp with the same stuff and a bump in compression to 10:1, still without a cam. Now those guys both gave up and went with motor swaps, one to an eco, the other to a 3400, they have their reasons I guess, but who knows what could have been done had they seen it through. The rest of the good OHV setups suffer from a lack of dyno and track time, or a lack of funds to complete. Why no one has managed to see 13's since the days of Adler, I can't tell you, but its not because of their choice in motor.
Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
I had/have a OHV cavy and it is a great engine, but the performance sucks. Even with mods it was still slower than the bone stock 03' ECO i bought. The OHV is a reliable little bugger, but the ECO has alot more performance potential.
It's not that cheap for a eco swap I've looked into it/
less moving parts to upgrade on the OHV vs the ECO
I find more often then not, the boosted OHV's are putting out more torque then HP compared to their DOHC counterparts, and to me, thats where the fun lies.
HP is just a number, but IMO its torque that makes the OHV all the while worth it. (just my .02)
dude, run the 2.2L!!! why jump on the bandwagon and swap like everyone else? my 2200 sfi has chewed up more than one eclipse, prolly just cause of the drivers but hey, do what makes you happy. stand out from the crowd and dont do things just cause somebody else says its cool. i know theres lots of power hiding in a 2200, its just a matter of doing the right upgrades to get it.
If the performance aftermarket had decided years ago to make plenty of parts for the OHV there would be a really different tune being played right now. It's the same in almost every market. The 3.4L Camaro / Firebird guys are often better off switching to a 5.7. Because the engine is so much better? No. Because it gets stupid expensive to buy aftermarket performance parts when you can find a car wrecked by some dipschitt with a complete engine and trans for less.
For the OHV, the single largest expense I seem to have so far is the pistons, at $100 a slug. That's a bunch of money for me. Still, with plenty of planning and research I still expect the cost of this engine to come in at less than $1500, probably closer to a grand. That's fairly cheap for an engine with limited aftermarket performance support.
-->Slow
if i had the money and resources, i'd love to build my 2200 .... go against the grain. maybe if it lasts me another year before some big issues arise, i'll start swapping in some pretty parts. but i just dont have the money to blow.
and i can still think of a ton other places that i'd rather spend the money (loans, house, etc) right now i just want a car that can get me from here to there.
but still....
2200 FTW!!
Rodimus Prime wrote:because its weak
???? Im sorry did you say its weak? Lets see your ecotec run 287 whp on stock internals.
horsepower is the force that determines at what speed you hit the wall, torque is the force that determines how far you take the wall with you after you hit it.
02 silver cavy wrote:Rodimus Prime wrote:because its weak
???? Im sorry did you say its weak? Lets see your ecotec run 287 whp on stock internals.
cant you read???
and show proof of this 287 whp
and we all know hypsy was running 12 psi on his ecotec
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Monday, February 25, 2008 10:27 PM
Im a Xbox 360 fanboy...and damn proud of it!!
^^ Yeah, until it popped a piston
Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
Benjamin Wagner wrote:Why do so many people hate the 2.2L 2200 OHV motor. I have on in my cavy and i think is a great motor and i was suprise by the performance of it stock.
impressed by its performance stock?
..is this the first car you've driven?
^^^^^ Niiiiiiice.
I think you hit the nail on the head on your other post Jason. Most people DON'T know enough about engines. The head is where power is made on a motor (compression ratio also plays a factor) and by design the 2.2 OHV was never intended to match the power of the TC or Eco. There's plenty of room for improvement though from port and polish to cam regrinds, rocker arms, and oversized valves.
Take a 350 sbc for example. Factory power output ranged from a paltry 145 up to a healthy 370 out of the same 350 cubic inches. That's a 225 horsepower difference coming from the heads, cam, compression, exhaust, and fuel delivery. Most owners in the modded small car market are probably in their twentys with no knowledge of engine building. Anybody can swap an engine. Simple bolt ons aren't going to cover the deficiencies of an ohv engine intended for a base/economy car. The head / air in / air out has to be addressed.
Now can a eco be swapped in for less than a full engine build for the LN2? Yes. Will a junkyard eco make the power of a built LN2? No. Is it worth it? To me no. If I had a 00-02 J which is the easiest to do an eco swap I still wouldn't swap. I'd sell it and buy a base 03 if I wanted an eco powered J. I'm not worried about being able to do the swap. I'm worried about sinking money in a 2000 model cavalier that isn't recoverable in resale.
Scarab (Jersey Jay 1.8T) wrote:^^ Yeah, until it popped a piston
yeah. but i still want to see a stock 2200 12 psi for as long as hypsy did with his eco.
Im a Xbox 360 fanboy...and damn proud of it!!
Or curtis running 15 psi...
and why hasnt this been moved to the war forum?
