for the money it's a good investment, however if you are looking for an all out head, go to allecotec.com and talk to karo, he's the man when it comes to this sorta thing, OR message livid on here he might be able to give you some tips.
watch for flying sparks!!!
You don't need to understand the specs, Patriots specs aren't worth the paper they print them on.
Patriot sucks (yes theres a few people running there heads, just becasue they haven't crapped out doesn't mean they are good)
There bare head... $1095
There head with full built valvetrain... $1295. Thats $200 for the full valvetrain.... The GMPP stuff will cost you about $1,050... Ferrara cost close to the same by the time all is said and done. Common sence would tell you your not getting $1,000+ worth of high quality parts for $200.... its because your getting $200 worth of crap. The cost alone shows there qualiy.
There head with full built vavletrain... $1,495. Thats with the bull@!#$ valvetrain and now an extra $200 for cams.... try finding a good quality set of cams (like comp) for $200.
They have been known for HUGE catastrophic failures in the F-body world as well as in accurate flow bench ratings.
As of this time there hasn't been any motor destroying failures on the eco that i know of and yes I know, everyone says the same thing everytime... "But PJ uses that head in his car" I know and I don't care... I still wouldn't use that head if it was free.
Darkstars wrote:You don't need to understand the specs, Patriots specs aren't worth the paper they print them on.
Patriot sucks (yes theres a few people running there heads, just becasue they haven't crapped out doesn't mean they are good)
There bare head... $1095
There head with full built valvetrain... $1295. Thats $200 for the full valvetrain.... The GMPP stuff will cost you about $1,050... Ferrara cost close to the same by the time all is said and done. Common sence would tell you your not getting $1,000+ worth of high quality parts for $200.... its because your getting $200 worth of crap. The cost alone shows there qualiy.
There head with full built vavletrain... $1,495. Thats with the bull@!#$ valvetrain and now an extra $200 for cams.... try finding a good quality set of cams (like comp) for $200.
They have been known for HUGE catastrophic failures in the F-body world as well as in accurate flow bench ratings.
As of this time there hasn't been any motor destroying failures on the eco that i know of and yes I know, everyone says the same thing everytime... "But PJ uses that head in his car" I know and I don't care... I still wouldn't use that head if it was free.
haha thats hillarious, ok well so you think the GMPP is pretty much the best head than? i dont care about the money issue i just want the best of the best, not for racing apps, beause i want my car to be street legal i just want some extra power out of it
Darkstars is right, if you look at any reputable valve train out there..... simple math will allow you to figure out if the patriot valve train is worth while.
The GMPP head is the best out there right now thats mass produced. If you can find a local machine shop with a good rep. they could do a good street port for less. Keep in mind too a good eco head from a junk yard comes in at arount 100$. Even if the macine shop charges you 700 for a port job and you buy the GMPP valve train (700-800) your paying around 1600$ for a bullet proof head... It really depends what you want to spend.
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like i said i'll spend alot of money as long as it gives the power for the money, because if 3k only gets lets say 20 whp than it seems like it wouldnt be worth it and you can get the same amount of power for less right?
but ya im a newb when it comes to engine performance but really want to start learning about these things...and i really want to get a new head, and i dont think there are really good shops in cleveland that does heads and what not...if anyone knows of any just tell me and i'll talk to them instead of bothering you guys lol
if your not going crazzy with the car your probobally better off with the GMPP supercharger kit. Good bang for a buck and reliable for a daily driver. A full out head wont do much for you without alot of surporting mods.
how thats nice, did you find out how much of a gain that did or are you still waiting?
Quote:
if your not going crazzy with the car your probobally better off with the GMPP supercharger kit. Good bang for a buck and reliable for a daily driver. A full out head wont do much for you without alot of surporting mods.
This is a very good point.
Quote:
how thats nice, did you find out how much of a gain that did or are you still waiting?
A head without supporting mods (cams, header, tb, exhaust, etc) is not going to provide a big gain. You wouldn't get 20hp. A motor is a system so all the parts need to work together, porting out a head and then effectively corking it with low lift cams, stock exhaust manifold, etc. will not give big gains.
If you want instant gratification and if you have very little knowledge about cars the GM supercharger kit is the way to go. Zero maintenance and a 50hp gain.
I havnt put the head on my car yet, Im building a complete motor.
"Go Before Show Yo."
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Gameoverracing. wrote:Quote:
if your not going crazzy with the car your probobally better off with the GMPP supercharger kit. Good bang for a buck and reliable for a daily driver. A full out head wont do much for you without alot of surporting mods.
This is a very good point.
Quote:
how thats nice, did you find out how much of a gain that did or are you still waiting?
A head without supporting mods (cams, header, tb, exhaust, etc) is not going to provide a big gain. You wouldn't get 20hp. A motor is a system so all the parts need to work together, porting out a head and then effectively corking it with low lift cams, stock exhaust manifold, etc. will not give big gains.
If you want instant gratification and if you have very little knowledge about cars the GM supercharger kit is the way to go. Zero maintenance and a 50hp gain.
I havnt put the head on my car yet, Im building a complete motor.
ahh well thats what i plan on doing, im trying to look up everything for a complete motor build
im even doing a transmission swap in the summer time so i was thinking about buying a motor from the junk yard and just building that motor up and than see how the NA goes, after i finish the NA build im gonna end up throwing up NOS and a turbo
your plan doesn't really make sence... if your gonna try to take it as far as you can N/A your gonna want high compressoin, if your gonna turbo it your gonna want low compression.
hmm, well this is why im a newb...
@!#$
well...i guess NA with NOS
Brian Groza wrote:hmm, well this is why im a newb...
@!#$
well...i guess NA with NOS
before you go ANY further, pick a plan and stay with it. otherwise you'll do nothing but piss money away on useless parts.
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once you choose a path, you have to backtrack quite a bit to go the other way (n/a vs boost)
pick what you want.
if you want ease and quick payoff with minimal investment, go boost.
n/a doesn't go very far in a vehicle that isn't ideal (lightest model... base models preferrably)
you have to upgrade many systems in order to see a decent gain.. everything counts when the engine is working on its own (ie. no boost)
n/a is not for the faint of heart.
if you wanna just mess around with it, thats another thing.. but its easy to go too far in the wrong direction and waste a lot of money. the patriot heads are ok. are there better options out there for a competitive price? absolutely.
now heres a question ive had
What if any differences is there in the patriot or gmpp head, and a factory ported head?
Do they have more clearence for say the LSx springs?
o and im talking about the 2.2 ohv
