Ive got a few mods to my motor, and my most recent one was the enlargement of my intake runners. I have a 2.2OHV motor w/auto trans, and im wondering if its time to squirt some more fuel through there.
What it does is, i can go all through the rpms nicely in 1st gear, then in 2nd gear, it goes nicely through the rpms up to ~5500rpms then kinda acts like it is struggling to push a little harder on to third gear. But, the rpms do not drop, they just kinda struggle a bit in the high range. Is it time for more fuel or what??
Also, i noticed on my narrowband AFR gauge, that my when my car goes into open loop, the AFR isnt as rich as it used to be. Its about an LED or two closer to being stoich than it used to be.
My mods are, intake, ported intake manifold runners, smoothed and re-shaped TB, Dynomax muffler welded from the axle back, pcv breather, and some thermal tuning on the downpipe (Basically, exhaust wrap).
///ATLANTA~ATNALTA\\\
narrowband doesnt mean anything.
thats all the help i can give you ill wait for the fuel experts to come in
My car may run 18s, but I can do your taxes in 10 seconds flat.
JBO lube - they would never have enough in stock and we'd never see RodimusPrime again
c'mon fuel gurus, im waitin for some info!
///ATLANTA~ATNALTA\\\
Increasing airflow requires more fuel, and to accurately know how much fuel you need you need a wideband. That being said one of 2 things is happening on your car right now. Lean misfire or detonation..... but being that you never said you got a misfire code i would guess its detonation being that you more then likely are only running 87 octane.
When the computer pulls back timing for detonation it can pull up to 6-8 degrees which will make the motor "fall on its face" (not sure on the actual degrees as i have not looked at a 2.2 ohv tune.)
so, essentially, at this point, i need to either run a higher octane, or tune for more fuel?
Is ther a way i can very MILDLY tune for just a tad more fuel w/out HPT?
///ATLANTA~ATNALTA\\\
I think you're just feeling the 2.2+autos lack of power and crappy gearing.
Plus, stoich is considered to be ideal for making maximum power, not rich...
Also dont forget that the LN2 makes its most hp at 4500rpms.(stock)
Tinkles wrote:Also dont forget that the LN2 makes its most hp at 4500rpms.(stock)
yeah, but my auto trans makes it shift at redline
///ATLANTA~ATNALTA\\\
madking411 wrote:Ive got a few mods to my motor, and my most recent one was the enlargement of my intake runners. I have a 2.2OHV motor w/auto trans, and im wondering if its time to squirt some more fuel through there.
What it does is, i can go all through the rpms nicely in 1st gear, then in 2nd gear, it goes nicely through the rpms up to ~5500rpms then kinda acts like it is struggling to push a little harder on to third gear. But, the rpms do not drop, they just kinda struggle a bit in the high range. Is it time for more fuel or what??
Also, i noticed on my narrowband AFR gauge, that my when my car goes into open loop, the AFR isnt as rich as it used to be. Its about an LED or two closer to being stoich than it used to be.
My mods are, intake, ported intake manifold runners, smoothed and re-shaped TB, Dynomax muffler welded from the axle back, pcv breather, and some thermal tuning on the downpipe (Basically, exhaust wrap).
Well..... here's your problem.
One, everyone is telling you to get a wideband and that's stupid given the amount it costs for a WBO2 and the mods that you have because it will offer you no benefit.
Your car is in open loop when you start it. Once it is warm it is no longer in open loop. When you're in open loop the O2 sensor is not hot enough anyways to be getting a proper reading.
The reason your engine falls on its face at that RPM is because of the engine that it is. All of them do it. They were not made to rev that high. I really seriously doubt that it has much to do with the PCM pulling timing but rather a whole lot more to do with the fact that the cam profile and the engine just not breathing at that speed.
SHOoff wrote:madking411 wrote:Ive got a few mods to my motor, and my most recent one was the enlargement of my intake runners. I have a 2.2OHV motor w/auto trans, and im wondering if its time to squirt some more fuel through there.
What it does is, i can go all through the rpms nicely in 1st gear, then in 2nd gear, it goes nicely through the rpms up to ~5500rpms then kinda acts like it is struggling to push a little harder on to third gear. But, the rpms do not drop, they just kinda struggle a bit in the high range. Is it time for more fuel or what??
Also, i noticed on my narrowband AFR gauge, that my when my car goes into open loop, the AFR isnt as rich as it used to be. Its about an LED or two closer to being stoich than it used to be.
My mods are, intake, ported intake manifold runners, smoothed and re-shaped TB, Dynomax muffler welded from the axle back, pcv breather, and some thermal tuning on the downpipe (Basically, exhaust wrap).
Well..... here's your problem.
One, everyone is telling you to get a wideband and that's stupid given the amount it costs for a WBO2 and the mods that you have because it will offer you no benefit.
Your car is in open loop when you start it. Once it is warm it is no longer in open loop. When you're in open loop the O2 sensor is not hot enough anyways to be getting a proper reading.
The reason your engine falls on its face at that RPM is because of the engine that it is. All of them do it. They were not made to rev that high. I really seriously doubt that it has much to do with the PCM pulling timing but rather a whole lot more to do with the fact that the cam profile and the engine just not breathing at that speed.
although i agree with everything... The one point i dont agree with is the WBO2. When it comes to any engine tuning a wb02 is a great tool. Even if its a completely stock n/a motor adjusting the fuel curve a bit is a great way to help make more power.
Along with the tuning aspect his car could use HPT quite a bit more so then a manual trans car. I finally got to play with an auto n/a ecotec and lemme tell ya that car hauled some ass with just playing with the shift points a bit.
All in all getting a wideband is necessary when changing the amount of air that enters the motor.
i have to agree with wrench monkey. anytime you mod a car to bring in more air or allow for better flow your fuel is going to be leaned out, not necessarily a lot but some. a wideband can really help to make sure the car isn't getting to lean.
And if you want your car to run perfect then you need to make the proper adjustments even when it is very lightly modded. HPTuners is a great tool for and J, heavy or light.
Veritas Aequitas
Wrench Monkey wrote:SHOoff wrote:madking411 wrote:Ive got a few mods to my motor, and my most recent one was the enlargement of my intake runners. I have a 2.2OHV motor w/auto trans, and im wondering if its time to squirt some more fuel through there.
What it does is, i can go all through the rpms nicely in 1st gear, then in 2nd gear, it goes nicely through the rpms up to ~5500rpms then kinda acts like it is struggling to push a little harder on to third gear. But, the rpms do not drop, they just kinda struggle a bit in the high range. Is it time for more fuel or what??
Also, i noticed on my narrowband AFR gauge, that my when my car goes into open loop, the AFR isnt as rich as it used to be. Its about an LED or two closer to being stoich than it used to be.
My mods are, intake, ported intake manifold runners, smoothed and re-shaped TB, Dynomax muffler welded from the axle back, pcv breather, and some thermal tuning on the downpipe (Basically, exhaust wrap).
Well..... here's your problem.
One, everyone is telling you to get a wideband and that's stupid given the amount it costs for a WBO2 and the mods that you have because it will offer you no benefit.
Your car is in open loop when you start it. Once it is warm it is no longer in open loop. When you're in open loop the O2 sensor is not hot enough anyways to be getting a proper reading.
The reason your engine falls on its face at that RPM is because of the engine that it is. All of them do it. They were not made to rev that high. I really seriously doubt that it has much to do with the PCM pulling timing but rather a whole lot more to do with the fact that the cam profile and the engine just not breathing at that speed.
although i agree with everything... The one point i dont agree with is the WBO2. When it comes to any engine tuning a wb02 is a great tool. Even if its a completely stock n/a motor adjusting the fuel curve a bit is a great way to help make more power.
Along with the tuning aspect his car could use HPT quite a bit more so then a manual trans car. I finally got to play with an auto n/a ecotec and lemme tell ya that car hauled some ass with just playing with the shift points a bit.
All in all getting a wideband is necessary when changing the amount of air that enters the motor.
While that may be very true, the OP does not own HPTuners and has not made tuning adjustments, and at this point does not sound intent on doing so. Therefore making the wideband useless other than an expensive piece of lighting.
Even so, with a 2.2 OHV on a stock head and stock cam. Even if you have HPTuners and a WBO2 the 2.2 is still gonna fall on it's face after 5500 without something like a cam.
So, it also sounds like i need to get my cam re-done, get a Wideband O2, and port+polish on my head. I know a port/polish is gonna cost me another $600.......
But i guess itll be worth it. HPT = $500..... and what company makes a wideband that our cars can use?? The first thing that comes to mind is AEM?
///ATLANTA~ATNALTA\\\
you have like, no mods.
a narrowband should NEVER be a basis for making fuel assumptions.. and that being said, you should never assume anything when it comes to fuel.
if you want to know, get a wideband kit and see.
DaFlyinSkwirl (PJ) - APU wrote:you have like, no mods.
a narrowband should NEVER be a basis for making fuel assumptions.. and that being said, you should never assume anything when it comes to fuel.
if you want to know, get a wideband kit and see.
ya...i kno i have no mods, thats why im preparing my ability to deliver fuel for them when i get them in.
Also, look at my last post with the link to the wideband controller, is that good enough?? or do i need something that does realtime?
///ATLANTA~ATNALTA\\\
Just a thought, but have you considered installing a set of hybrid lifters. The stock lifters are kinda useless after about 5000rpm. Fortunately MadJack has shown here how to mod the factory lifters with parts from LT1 lifters (Search: LN2/LT1 hybrid lifters). Try that after you've maybe swapped cams, or in lew of a cam swap just to get those few extra revs.
Go beyond the "bolt-on".
lol about that turbo??? thats a big MAYBE....b/c it probably wont happen for a while, and i still need to find a good piggyback unit that our cars can use to retard the timing for boost. As far as fuel, i think its all taken care of with this innovate standalone fuel controller. If im gonna boost, i need to find something for the timing as well. Reason im trying so hard to avoid HPT is b/cuz i have a 96 and (as ive been over this a million times...) its gonna be kinda tough for me to repin my car for a 97ecu and there doesnt seem to be any pin out diagrams anywhere either. Its NOT b/cuz im trying to shortcut my car or be cheap...
///ATLANTA~ATNALTA\\\
All you have to do is swap the entire harness from a 97, no need to repin. There is a diagram here somewhere, but i have know idea how to find it. If you are looking for some oversized valves and ls6 valve springs pm me!
Wait, you mena to tell me that there's more differences added to the J-car PCM in '97 than there already was for '96 compared to '95? And even '94? I'm not trying to be an "A" about this, I'm really curious!
Go beyond the "bolt-on".
madking411 wrote:Tinkles wrote:Also dont forget that the LN2 makes its most hp at 4500rpms.(stock)
yeah, but my auto trans makes it shift at redline
that would be a tranny problem sound like the torq converter isnt locking up and the ecu is compensation to save fuel
THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE, i have already died once and im still here so lets just leave it on the track
