ive been told by a few people that i should swap my 2.2 for a 3.1, instead of boosting the 2.2
anyone know what it sakes for the swap and if its worth it. and how long it takes?

Personally I say turbo the 2.2. You'll have more power and spent the same amount of money. But to your actual question, I have no clue what it takes or how long(if you've never done it before).

Swap to a 3400. Almost Identical engine, which means it's just as easy to go 3400 then 3.1. You have to use the top engine mount from a 3100, and have a custom bracket made to join the bottom mount. Thentheres wiring. I think for a 00 the best thing to do is get an alero computer and harness, and join it with your existing chassis harness. Then use HPT or another tuning program to remove the auto tranny codes. The only downfall then should be the fuel gauge not working which can be solved by purchasing an aftermarket fuel gauge.

Oh and as for how long it takes, PHILLY D rolled his sunfire into the garage on a friday night, and rolled it out sunday night with a 3400.

any idea on cost for either?

wait should i spend a few extra dollars and put a 3800 supercharged in it, is that a better idea? and can i have it as a manual?

Don't do either. If you are going to swap go with a 3400 or if it were me it would be an eco and then I would boost it. If you think you can afford it you could also put in a 3800. Talk to raven as he is familar with what all has to be done. And yes you can use a manual trans with the 3800



FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!

ive seen everything that raven has posted but it is making it sound like i have to purchase the subframe. i have a friend that builds minitruck frames and he is fully capable of making it. but i have no idea about the deminsions. does anyone have those?

3800 is a much more complicated swap. You have change alot more stuff like welding in new mounts, purchase a new tranny (3400 swap you can use your current tranny), not really worth it if your gonna keep the engine stock. 3800 is rated from the factory at 200hp for the N/A version. 3400 Is rated up to 185hp in the chev venture, and several people have dynoed a stock 3400 swap with 2nd gen electronics at 180-190hp at the wheels. As for cost, the engine would be the biggest blow If you could do your own wiring. Double Z can do the harness for you and charges around $700 I think, which is well worth it. 3400 swap shouldn't go over $2000 unless your paying a shop to do all the work. You can use a manual with the 3400, and the easiest way to do it is use electronics (harness and ecm) from a 92-94 Z24 w/ 3.1 and 5 speed.

about how much is the whole 3400 swap motor and all?

If I were you, and you're going to go through the trouble of going through a swap, I would go with a 3800 Supercharged from a 1997 newer GTP, Regal GS, Impala SS, Monte Carlo SS. Reasons being: !) Engine is strong and WIDE open for mods... and 2) It's already supercharged and REALLY easy to make more power. My buddy had a GS, made his own air intake, put a smaller pulley on it, and had the PCM flashed and he ran 14.5's (thats with bone stock exhaust, hard ass tires and a car loaded with leather and all the goods!!!) So , just imagine that "close to stock" setup in your cavy!! 3400 is a nice engine.. but its N/A... what can you do to it for performance mods? Cold air, exhaust? Does anyone make any performance parts for that engine? You could turbo that, but you're looking at another 2000 bux at least!! You could do a cam swap while the engine is out, but even that is limited.. Am I making sense? If you're going to do a swap, put something in that has a lot of potential to go fast for cheap!! Look on youtube for supercharged 3800, and you'll get the jist of what those engines can do!! Oh, and I've heard of mating a 3800 to a manual tranny is possible, never seen one though.

I've seen crazier: IIRC, the Cavy uses a manual trans of a rating the same as the one used in the Fiero... And I've seen guys match-up small-block Chevy V-8s to them! But they had to use an adaptor plate because the SBC was (And always will be) cast with a 90* bellhousing mating surface, while the trans was only available with a "Metric" pattern bellhousing. The 3800 was cast with the Metric mating pattern so you should be clear there. As for the flywheel, clutch & pressure plate, the pieces used on the V-6 powered F-bodies (Camaro, Firebird) should just bolt-up. At least the flywheel should. I can't say for sure about the clutch/pressure plate combo, but IIRC the T-5 trans & the 5-spd transaxle GM used in your Cavy (Or any transverse mount engine FWD they built) have the same input shaft diameter & spline count, so you should be okay there too.


Go beyond the bolt-on.

Go beyond the "bolt-on".

Nathan Blanchard wrote:If I were you, and you're going to go through the trouble of going through a swap, I would go with a 3800 Supercharged from a 1997 newer GTP, Regal GS, Impala SS, Monte Carlo SS. Reasons being: !) Engine is strong and WIDE open for mods... and 2) It's already supercharged and REALLY easy to make more power. My buddy had a GS, made his own air intake, put a smaller pulley on it, and had the PCM flashed and he ran 14.5's (thats with bone stock exhaust, hard ass tires and a car loaded with leather and all the goods!!!) So , just imagine that "close to stock" setup in your cavy!! 3400 is a nice engine.. but its N/A... what can you do to it for performance mods? Cold air, exhaust? Does anyone make any performance parts for that engine? You could turbo that, but you're looking at another 2000 bux at least!! You could do a cam swap while the engine is out, but even that is limited.. Am I making sense? If you're going to do a swap, put something in that has a lot of potential to go fast for cheap!! Look on youtube for supercharged 3800, and you'll get the jist of what those engines can do!! Oh, and I've heard of mating a 3800 to a manual tranny is possible, never seen one though.

Don't confuse him, he knows a 3800 Supercharged is fast, but it's not worth the extra time and money. He could do a 3400 swap and boost it for same price and get more power. My buddy has an 01 cavalier with a 3400 swap and a t3/t4 turbo. He made 350+ HP on 10psi.

You guys telling him to put in a 3800 SC instead of a 3400 have no idea what you're talking about.

Unless you have a @!#$-ton of time and drive, DO NOT do the 3800, it will take a lot to make it work properlly, and figure out a way to mount it. the 3800 is a 90 degree v6, which is where all the problems come from.

The 3400 is more or less "bolt in" if you kind of know what I mean, a few custom things have to be made, but nothing crazy. The motor itself can be had for around 500-600 with 100,000KM on it....I'd rebuild the top end (thats my plan on one anyways) at the very least change the intake manifold gasket before you put it in.

Then either boost it, or juice it... your choice.

Trust me, if a 3800 swap was easy, I'd tell you to do that instead, they have a TON of aftermarket support.. My gf has a 99 GP that she's building a S/C 3800 for, and you can easily make 400HP with those motors with the stock S/C... but in a cav, you're better off with a 3400.


There will always be someone faster than you, but thousands slower and dumber than you.

I'd go for an 00+ 3100 or 3400. They're very close in power. If you can get your hands on a good priced 3400, no question, go with that. I went with the 3100 because I scored the thing so damn cheap, and with almost no miles on it.

If you're using an auto, there are a few electronic issues to consider. The one ECM that has so far been tested to run the factory J-body cluster in an 00+ vehicle with no problems is the Malibu 3100 ECM. The problem is that it was causing tranny problems in the vehicle it was tested in. The Alero/Grand Mm 3400 ECM ran the auto tranny fine, but does not run the fuel gauge.

I'm investigating the serial data streams right now and trying to figure out if there is a way to flash just that info into an ECM, so that you could make the Alero/GA ECM run the cluster properly.

If you're serious about a V6 swap, read the sticky in the 3rd Gen forum. Starting with a 2.2 OHV car does make it a little easier.

True, the 3800 has a 90* cylinder bank separation, but it still uses the Metric bellhousing mating surface pattern like the 60* V-6 and all the non-Quad4 engines from '82-up (Just thought I'd clarify that). But you are right, the 3800 will be hard to package because of it's cylinder separation embankment. IIRC it's the same reason why the idea GM had during the '80s of making the 4th-gen F-body FWD (Yes, they did have plans on making it that way!) was abandoned... Because of packaging problems! I've got an old issue of Popular Science around here somewhere that has a sidebar on it with spy pictures to prove it. Sadly, I do not have even a scanner to copy it on... let alone a Photo Bucket account to load them into. So it's just my word I'll hafta give here...


Go beyond the "bolt-on".

see i guess ive miscomunicated my point. i dont want to have the next race car that runs 10s on the quater. i dont really need it to be boosted. i just want it to be fast when i want it to be, my 2.2 5 speed is just not doing it for me. i saw the v6 swap as being something managable and different for my friend group. i just want to know things like
*how long
*what facilities
*what tools
*how much
and which is most realistic. im not a car junkie with a huge garage and tons of money, half the time i dont really know what im doing. the only real engine work ive done is on my old charger. i guess the real question is, is this a realistic project for me.

Then stick with the 2.4 man.. look at the horse power figures, with what you'd gain with a 3400, its not worth the headache. Find yourself a donor car with a 2.4, or an ecotec, and do the swap that way.

swap to an eco and be done with it. its a bolt-in affair, all oem, no welding, no fuss, no ancient-ass iron block motors.

all aluminum, all modern. get a 2004-2005 ecotec from a scrap yard and you'll thank me later.


if you wanna make it bullet proof throw forged rods n pistons in it

^Yeah, just a handful of electrical spaghetti to deal with for the management. And by the way: Gasoline-fueled Light Duty (1/2-ton t0 3/4-ton) trucks use iron blocks still, so it isn't that ancient. The chassis that your J-car is based on, that's ancient.


Go beyond the "bolt-on".

Nathan Blanchard wrote:Then stick with the 2.4 man.. look at the horse power figures, with what you'd gain with a 3400, its not worth the headache. Find yourself a donor car with a 2.4, or an ecotec, and do the swap that way.

You really need to do some research, and learn to read. For one, he doesn't even have a 2.4 he has a 2.2. The stock 2.2 will dyno less than 100 whp, and several guys have dynoed a 3400 swap "stock engine" at 170-180hp to the wheels. So for a swap that takes about 40 hours to do, and can be done for $1500, how is it not worth it?
I'd like you to take a 2.2 and spend $1500 on it. Lets see if you can make 180whp with a 2.2ohv and $1500 and make it as reliable as a stock 3400......

Nickelin Dimer wrote:^Yeah, just a handful of electrical spaghetti to deal with for the management. And by the way: Gasoline-fueled Light Duty (1/2-ton t0 3/4-ton) trucks use iron blocks still, so it isn't that ancient. The chassis that your J-car is based on, that's ancient.

when i said 'ancient ass iron block motors' i meant more emphasis on 'ancient ass' not 'iron block'

you think i don't know they still make modern engines from iron? please...

Okay, but how old of a design do you thnk the LD9 is? I got news for ya: It's almost as old! It's nothing more than minor rework of the ledgendary Quad4 to give it a longer stroke & a smaller bore.

And Michael: With the way turbo kit prices are coming down (At least for the LN2 S-trucks) I'd say it's very possible.

And for the record: The 2.4 and the Ecotec use different bellhousing (From what I hear) but the LN2 & the Ecotec are the same.


Go beyond the "bolt-on".

wrong.

the LN2 and the ecotec have different bellhousings. trust me, i've seen them side by side when I did my swap.

Then how come I here so much about just the opposite?


Go beyond the "bolt-on".