ok so as we know the new 2.4L eco(LE5) comes in the solstice and saturn sky. these two cars have replaced the jbody platform and are now rear wheel drive. by this being said there are still jbody lovers and owners out there with the regular 2.4L(LD9). alot of people want to swap out the two sister motors (including me into a 99z4)but which is better? i know one thing for sure is that the LE5 has turbo kits for it and does not need a custom one like the LD9. could this swap even be possible? or will this engine continue to just show up in the solsice and saturn sky? will GM bring back a new cavalier with the LE5 in it? alot of questions alot of answers and opinions.........so i wonder what are everybodys thoughts on this.........ding ding round 1
Did you forget that the new 2.4 eco is also available in the Cobalt's / G5's ? That being front wheel drive, I would think would make things a little more simple for the swap over. But I honestly don't know if there's enough of a difference in either respect.
A LE5 would need a custom kit, since the kits are NOT designed for J-bodies.
But no one has put a LE5 into a J-body...as of yet.
No new cavalier will ever come....at not least on a J-platform.
The LD9 and LE5 are no way shape or form, sister motors.
The main problem with the LE5 is the drive by wire TB, and no J-body computer is capable of running the motor.
PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO
There are a lot of proven high HP BUILT LD9's out there, but for stock bottom end reliability, the LD9 cannot touch the LE5 - 440 BHP on the stock bottom end.
As far as the swap - grab the trans, engine, ECU/harness, gauges, axels from a cobalt - fab what you need to and enjoy. In terms of cost-benefit, it will NOT be worth it compared to the cost of building the LD9. This swap would be totally for the "coolness" factor.
Quote:
alot of people want to swap out the two sister motors (including me into a 99z4)but which is better?
i agree with MD here... these motors could never be considered "sisters" since they have NOTHING in common...and since this question gets asked more often than its searched well give you the same answer....unless you wanna be the first to attempt it dont ask cus no one here has done it
oldskool wrote:There are a lot of proven high HP BUILT LD9's out there, but for stock bottom end reliability, the LD9 cannot touch the LE5 - 440 BHP on the stock bottom end.
As far as the swap - grab the trans, engine, ECU/harness, gauges, axels from a cobalt - fab what you need to and enjoy. In terms of cost-benefit, it will NOT be worth it compared to the cost of building the LD9. This swap would be totally for the "coolness" factor.
Your going to need a stand alone to run the engine. The the cavalier's ECU doesnt like any besides the L61 relutor wheel. You would have to rewire the whole car to use the LE5 ECU so the car thinks its a Cobalt.
SOOOO many things wrong with this question and info from poster. The Solstice/Sky did not replace the Jbody's. Cobalt did. This swap has not been done, but I feel it could be done, but would require lots of wiring. Either standalone mangement, or talking a Cobalt and stuffing the wiring from it into a Jbody. Which would then require special wiring for some things like headlights etc...
FU Tuning
Bagged Base Coupe (Tinkles) wrote:oldskool wrote:There are a lot of proven high HP BUILT LD9's out there, but for stock bottom end reliability, the LD9 cannot touch the LE5 - 440 BHP on the stock bottom end.
As far as the swap - grab the trans, engine, ECU/harness, gauges, axels from a cobalt - fab what you need to and enjoy. In terms of cost-benefit, it will NOT be worth it compared to the cost of building the LD9. This swap would be totally for the "coolness" factor.
Your going to need a stand alone to run the engine. The the cavalier's ECU doesnt like any besides the L61 relutor wheel. You would have to rewire the whole car to use the LE5 ECU so the car thinks its a Cobalt.
Yea I basically was saying convert the jbody to a cobalt in terms of electronics - sensors, ECU, ect... The Jbody ECU would have to go.
Not worth the effort, just build an L61 they can hold more power than you will ever make
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
You guys are getting too complicated w/ it. Yeah the reluctor and all that @!#$ and the vvt, but aside from that why would you need the cobalt ecu. Throttle by wire? Um hello, le5 intake manifold w/ stock l61 throttle body. There, problem solved. As for the rest of the sensors, let's see, cam sensor and power steering. Ooops l61 head, there ya go, problem solved again. Now don't have to worry about vvt, but still have the reluctor problem. I've looked into this swap sooooo many times. So now the only problem you're left faced w/ is the reluctor. That in itself makes the swap pretty much useless.
If the car is already an ecotec, the sensors and such are all pretty much the same. There will be a few differences though.
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4 Cams...32 Valves...5 Liters...This Could Get Fun!
ok ok sorry for calling them sister engines. only said that because they both are 2.4. and yes i 4got the cobalt replaced the platforme. cut me some slack. i wrote this at 4.45 in the morning. left out a dew things. but any way ok. which would u rather have LE5 or LD9 if the swap was possible(not saying it isnt)........round 2 ready......fight!!
id pick the ld9....but im biased
LG0\W41
Chris
'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08
.. LD2 (87-94) before LD9.. just me though.
Chris
'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08
John Higgins wrote:SOOOO many things wrong with this question and info from poster. The Solstice/Sky did not replace the Jbody's. Cobalt did. This swap has not been done, but I feel it could be done, but would require lots of wiring. Either standalone mangement, or talking a Cobalt and stuffing the wiring from it into a Jbody. Which would then require special wiring for some things like headlights etc...
actually, the delta platform took over the j-body platform. and as for you saying the swap has not been done? why do you say that? because no body on JBO has done it?
...... The bault is a “A" body...
Delta is how people referred to them over seas... and if were going there, all it is, is a replacement for the L body Beretta\Corsica, get under one some time and look at it.
I did find this in my parts catalog,
Quote:
LE5 2005 2010 ENGINE GAS, 4 CYL, 2.4L, MFI, ALUM, DOHC, HO, ECOTEC 2.4-B(LE5)
thought "HO" was neat, thought id share.
Chris
'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08
LOL chris do you sit around at work all day looking for posts like this to thumb through your GM sh!t?
Taetsch Z-24 wrote:...... The bault is a “A" body...
Delta is how people referred to them over seas... and if were going there, all it is, is a replacement for the L body Beretta\Corsica, get under one some time and look at it.
I did find this in my parts catalog,
Quote:
LE5 2005 2010 ENGINE GAS, 4 CYL, 2.4L, MFI, ALUM, DOHC, HO, ECOTEC 2.4-B(LE5)
thought "HO" was neat, thought id share.
Chris
Few fixes.
"Delta" is the Greek letter GM uses for public/media use. Internally it is a "A" body.
And the Cobalt/G5/Pursuit is a replacement for for the Cavalier and Sunfire, not Corsica or Beretta or any old N-body for that matter.
Delta platform is a old chassis. This chassis has been seeing duty around the world since 1991 as the Astra. And Astra was some what a derivative to the J but for Euro use, hence the similar platform architecture and suspension components. But all in all, the chassis has been updated much the same the J did. And still GM does not have a "all-new" compact platform.
Lastly the LE5 does carry a H.O. on the valve cover, but we all know that there is no H.O. in its output. Ford did something like this in the early 90's with 5.0, remember that?
Carry on.
>>>For Sale? Clicky!<<<
-----The orginal Mr.Goodwrench on the JBO since 11/99-----
z yaaaa wrote:John Higgins wrote:SOOOO many things wrong with this question and info from poster. The Solstice/Sky did not replace the Jbody's. Cobalt did. This swap has not been done, but I feel it could be done, but would require lots of wiring. Either standalone mangement, or talking a Cobalt and stuffing the wiring from it into a Jbody. Which would then require special wiring for some things like headlights etc...
actually, the delta platform took over the j-body platform. and as for you saying the swap has not been done? why do you say that? because no body on JBO has done it?
Gimmie a break. Do you really think anyone has done this. I highly doubt it and not just because noone on the JBO has done it but because it is far from pratical!
FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!
yeah, putting a northstar v8 in a cavalier wasnt practical either, but it was done.
original poster is clearly a newb, but brings up a question beat to death in this forum.
can I swap BLAHBLAH ecotec into a jbody?
the answer is yes.
if you have a 2000 model year or higher, mechanically speaking, the eco is a direct drop in.
if you have a pre 2000 model year, you have some mounts to grind and weld in order to get a getrag trans into the body.. then swap the eco in and all is well.
mechanically, the engines are all very similar. so they can easily be adapted to the FWD layout of the jbody, that isn't a problem. All the bosses for external engine mounts already exist.
the reluctor wheels are the biggest problem, which have a few solutions.. but all of them lead eventually to a stand alone.
I did have the idea of making a custom 7 tooth ring that would bolt onto the 2.4/2.0 crank shaft that would allow the engine to run on the Jbody ecu but I find a few problems with this solution:
1) you'd have to custom machine a 7 tooth reluctor ring in the same EXACT pattern as the 2.2. Then, tear apart the engine you are swapping in and pull the crankshaft out and all the connecting rods in order to change the reluctor ring to the custom made 6+1 wheel so the Jbody ecu can understand it.
2) the jbody ecu is a POS anyway, why retain it when you can just upgrade and save all the mechanical headaches?
so far as the VVT problem goes, you can swap on an L61 head and be done with it. However, it does bring up some questions about the compression ratio and whether or not the hybrid combination will work since the LE5 has an 88mm bore and the L61 head is 86.5mm combustion chamber. Can you say bumped compression?
the other thing is from my calculations, the LE5 has a pretty lousy rod ratio. Good for early torque and "lazy" power, but not really good if you're trying to build a powerhouse engine with a decent redline.
for the power you get from an LE5 in the 'lazy' spectrum, you can just upgrade the LD9 or L61 to more than compensate.
don't get cute by thinking you can mix and match ecotec rotating assemblies either, because you can't swap pistons/rods/crank among any of the engines.. they all have to be utilized as a set, and the LE5 again has a larger 88mm bore. The LSJ (2.0 s/c), L61 (2.2) and LNF (2.0 turbo) all have 86mm bores.
I'd prefer the 2.0 to be honest. (hence why I'm putting it in my car)
Dynamically, its a much better engine than the LE5.
DaFlyinSkwir(LS61) /PJ/ OEM+ wrote:original poster is clearly a newb, but brings up a question beat to death in this forum.
can I swap BLAHBLAH ecotec into a jbody?
the answer is yes.
if you have a 2000 model year or higher, mechanically speaking, the eco is a direct drop in.
if you have a pre 2000 model year, you have some mounts to grind and weld in order to get a getrag trans into the body.. then swap the eco in and all is well.
mechanically, the engines are all very similar. so they can easily be adapted to the FWD layout of the jbody, that isn't a problem. All the bosses for external engine mounts already exist.
the reluctor wheels are the biggest problem, which have a few solutions.. but all of them lead eventually to a stand alone.
I did have the idea of making a custom 7 tooth ring that would bolt onto the 2.4/2.0 crank shaft that would allow the engine to run on the Jbody ecu but I find a few problems with this solution:
1) you'd have to custom machine a 7 tooth reluctor ring in the same EXACT pattern as the 2.2. Then, tear apart the engine you are swapping in and pull the crankshaft out and all the connecting rods in order to change the reluctor ring to the custom made 6+1 wheel so the Jbody ecu can understand it.
2) the jbody ecu is a POS anyway, why retain it when you can just upgrade and save all the mechanical headaches?
so far as the VVT problem goes, you can swap on an L61 head and be done with it. However, it does bring up some questions about the compression ratio and whether or not the hybrid combination will work since the LE5 has an 88mm bore and the L61 head is 86.5mm combustion chamber. Can you say bumped compression?
the other thing is from my calculations, the LE5 has a pretty lousy rod ratio. Good for early torque and "lazy" power, but not really good if you're trying to build a powerhouse engine with a decent redline.
for the power you get from an LE5 in the 'lazy' spectrum, you can just upgrade the LD9 or L61 to more than compensate.
don't get cute by thinking you can mix and match ecotec rotating assemblies either, because you can't swap pistons/rods/crank among any of the engines.. they all have to be utilized as a set, and the LE5 again has a larger 88mm bore. The LSJ (2.0 s/c), L61 (2.2) and LNF (2.0 turbo) all have 86mm bores.
I'd prefer the 2.0 to be honest. (hence why I'm putting it in my car)
Dynamically, its a much better engine than the LE5.
yea yea yea imma newb so what bra.....everybody has to learn some way or another.......i know the swap is a difficult one but i posted just to see what everybodys opinions were
z yaaaa wrote:LOL chris do you sit around at work all day looking for posts like this to thumb through your GM sh!t?
Yes.
Quote:
ew fixes.
"Delta" is the Greek letter GM uses for public/media use. Internally it is a "A" body.
And the Cobalt/G5/Pursuit is a replacement for for the Cavalier and Sunfire, not Corsica or Beretta or any old N-body for that matter.
Delta platform is a old chassis. This chassis has been seeing duty around the world since 1991 as the Astra. And Astra was some what a derivative to the J but for Euro use, hence the similar platform architecture and suspension components. But all in all, the chassis has been updated much the same the J did. And still GM does not have a "all-new" compact platform.
Lastly the LE5 does carry a H.O. on the valve cover, but we all know that there is no H.O. in its output. Ford did something like this in the early 90's with 5.0, remember that?
Carry on.
Read above.
This is what GM told me.
Chris
'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08
