where to find a cam - Performance Forum

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where to find a cam
Saturday, April 11, 2009 2:01 PM
i need to find a cam for a 2.2l for a 02 cavalier so if u can let me no a web site that be great thanx


speed kills save lives drive a honda

Re: where to find a cam
Saturday, April 11, 2009 2:32 PM
get a core and have it sent out to be reground, then swap it in with some higher ratio rockers.



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Re: where to find a cam
Saturday, April 11, 2009 2:38 PM
J.B.P.'s LN2 cam is an overpriced regrind ($324.40 plus $168 core charge). The amount of lift if iffy on stock springs, especially for the amount of gain to be had.

I.P.P.'s cams aren't regrinds, but aren't true billet cores as stated, but rather a cast steel core. I'm sure the wear would be okay. The amount of valve lift will work well with the stock valve springs.

Your best bet is to get a cam from a salvage yard and have it reground by your favorite cam company. These cams use the same lobes as a Small Block Chevy hydraulic roller cam, but with a .700" lifter wheel as opposed to the .750" wheel on the SBC. Stay with the lobes that are computer compatible and have no more than about .470" lift at the valve (lobe lift X rocker ratio = valve lift). An intake duration of about 200-206* @.050" and an exhaust duration of about 6-10* longer than the intake will do well on a naturally aspirated motor or supercharged or nitrous motors. A turbo motor would like a symmetrical patter or a couple degrees less exhaust if you run a bigger turbo.






Re: where to find a cam
Saturday, April 11, 2009 2:40 PM
Rich Grayo Jr. wrote:get a core and have it sent out to be reground, then swap it in with some higher ratio rockers.


Figure out what the lobe lift is before getting the rockers. You don't want to exceed .470" lift or you could seriously endangering your motor.





Re: where to find a cam
Saturday, April 11, 2009 2:57 PM
never fully understood the regrind thing... they can't ADD material to a regrind can they?



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Re: where to find a cam
Saturday, April 11, 2009 3:54 PM
no the take from the low side



my kill list:a geo metro and a mac semi wow did i kill that thing
Re: where to find a cam
Saturday, April 11, 2009 5:50 PM
That's right, they take from the base circle (low side). With limited amount of material, they can only move the C/Ls about +/- 1*. That's why the choice of cam profiles we can make is so limited, but atleast we can make some serious improvements.





Re: where to find a cam
Sunday, April 12, 2009 3:51 AM
Quote:

Your best bet is to get a cam from a salvage yard and have it reground by your favorite cam company.

Sadly, that's not an option at this time. And I have a feeling that my favorite cam company may never be the same. <sigh>

Madjack, have you ever looked into possible differences between smallblock and bigblock cam lobes? Maybe there's a little more to be gained from a different profile?

With Crane Cams being sold off, I've been trying to collect some of the tech articles and catalogs from the web page. Is there an active link to the cam lobe profile catalog?

-->Slow
Re: where to find a cam
Sunday, April 12, 2009 5:02 PM
This is such a joy to read. MadJack: The remark on how the exhaust can do with some favor on the duration is just what I was thinking the other day. I was looking at the Comp-Cams Thumper-series cams for the SBC & realized that the profile combined with a LSA/LDA that such a profile would be perfect for the '98-up LN2' smaller exhaust port. Also, Thoughts of regrinding a '96-'97 cam to the same duration as the '98-later cam with slightly higher lift specs that also minimizes the width of the overlap, and favoring the height, used in conjunction with long-runner intake & exhaust manifolds (Header!) may be the way to go for me to build an engine with a torquey low-end for my '99 S-truck... to achieve the efficiency goals I have in mind, that is. Hmmm... Maybe I should reduce the FDR or add a Gear Vendors overdrive tailshaft-unit while I'm at it, to help keep it in the range.


Go beyond the "bolt-on".
Re: where to find a cam
Sunday, April 12, 2009 6:44 PM
some incredible things can be done by a good cam shop. i ahve a place in new hampshire regrind our stuff. he is a one man show and is very concious to quality of his products, Northeast Cams
Re: where to find a cam
Sunday, April 12, 2009 7:15 PM
slowolej wrote: With Crane Cams being sold off, I've been trying to collect some of the tech articles and catalogs from the web page. Is there an active link to the cam lobe profile catalog?


There's a link to the PDF on the lower right colum marked "CAM LOBE PROFILES" on the home page. I still have the catalog on mini-disc here in the big stack next to my PC.

slowolej wrote:Madjack, have you ever looked into possible differences between smallblock and bigblock cam lobes? Maybe there's a little more to be gained from a different profile?


The base circle/lobe diameters are different, though they do use the .750" diameter lifter wheel as the SBC. Of course a competant grinder can adjust for the different size lobe, but you have to watch for ramp rates a little more closely.

Bob, is he the one in Northwood? If so would he have some specs on his SBC hydraulic roller lobes? I like to play with the profiles on Desktop Dyno, to find what would work best. If he's got something I like, I'd give him a try. (currently I'm looking to use Jones Racing Cams or Bullet Cams) Once I get the 2200 cam, I'll be degreeing the specs on the 2.2 & 2200 cams, including the sensor notch. Then I'll be sending the cam I decide to use out for regrinding. I want to get it done by the middle of next month, so time is getting short.







Re: where to find a cam
Monday, April 13, 2009 3:48 AM

Quote:

There's a link to the PDF on the lower right colum marked "CAM LOBE PROFILES" on the home page.


Silly me. I went looking for a cam lobe catalog under the "Catalogs" heading. Just what was I thinking.

The larger base circle of the BBC cam allows more agressive ramps with flat lifters. While we're not looking for anything too wild, it's probably worth a study to see if a flat tappet BBC cam that "works" can be translated into a roller LN2 cam. Since many of the older cams were refined on a dyno by a "real" person it's possible that there's characteristics of a BBC head shared by the LN2 which are helped by a slightly different lobe shape. I've gone through the same thing with my Buick big block. Many companies just grind the SBC lobes onto the Buick core, but there are Buick specific grinds which will make more power.

-->Slow
Re: where to find a cam
Monday, April 13, 2009 12:44 PM
yes he is in northwood, give him a call, i cna find his number if you need it. my race cam which again is falt tappet has a sbc grind on it
Re: where to find a cam
Monday, April 13, 2009 1:22 PM
hot damn MadJack, I'm gunna be keeping I.P.P. on my contact list. that's a decent price for a cam to have been just made like that.



Re: where to find a cam
Monday, April 13, 2009 10:22 PM
slowolej wrote:
Quote:

There's a link to the PDF on the lower right column marked "CAM LOBE PROFILES" on the home page.


Silly me. I went looking for a cam lobe catalog under the "Catalogs" heading. Just what was I thinking.

The larger base circle of the BBC cam allows more agressive ramps with flat lifters. While we're not looking for anything too wild, it's probably worth a study to see if a flat tappet BBC cam that "works" can be translated into a roller LN2 cam. Since many of the older cams were refined on a dyno by a "real" person it's possible that there's characteristics of a BBC head shared by the LN2 which are helped by a slightly different lobe shape. I've gone through the same thing with my Buick big block. Many companies just grind the SBC lobes onto the Buick core, but there are Buick specific grinds which will make more power.

-->Slow

I hear that, about how most cam grinders... even makers, for that matter... tend to resort to SBC lobes for the design of the cam; even though it's meant for a non-SBC app! I mean, c'mon... Chevy lobes in a Mopar!? That's so incorrect.

You do bring-up a good point about how perhaps using a lobe... maybe even cam... profile like found in BBC-apps. I wonder what the LSA/LDA on those are like? Probably the same or very similar to those used on the LN2's bumpstick. If so, there's a lesson to be had there. I mean, since the lobes are (as I've found) very similar in shape to those found in the '87-'95 GM truck/van TBI 350(5.7L) V-8... doesn't it make sense to apply lobes found to be advantageous in that engine to our cams? Just saying...


Go beyond the "bolt-on".
Re: where to find a cam
Tuesday, April 14, 2009 4:57 AM
IPP doesnt offer that cam anymore, I called them like 2 months ago and they stopped making them!

I have a turbo cam regrind from Comp Cams if anyone is interested!

PM ME
Re: where to find a cam
Wednesday, April 15, 2009 7:02 PM
NOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!! dammit, those were somewhat clost to what I was looking for for the Cam.


the Cam you have, I may want it eventually, but I won't be going turbo for quite a while.



Re: where to find a cam
Thursday, April 16, 2009 6:32 PM
As I keep saying, just get an extra cam and get it reground according to your needs.

I'm looking at these companies:

Bullet Racing Cams / Ultradyne Racing Cams
Comp Cams
Isky Racing Cams
Jones Cam Design

There are some other small companies that I've looked at, but those listed above can cover most applications.






Re: where to find a cam
Friday, April 17, 2009 4:57 AM
Did anyone see what I posted!?
I HAVE AN EXTRA CAM THAT WAS ALREADY RE-GROUND!
Re: where to find a cam
Friday, April 17, 2009 4:17 PM
I heard you, pm sent.


When in doupt, grub.
Re: where to find a cam
Friday, April 17, 2009 8:28 PM
Just learned something: Remember my question about BBC LSA? Well, I just learned that they ranged from 114* (Base-model workhorses) to 110* (High performance models). That explains why the pre-'97s have such a wide separation with a lobe shape reminescent of those found in the '87-'95 truck/van TBI 5.7L V-8: The head is so-much like the oval-port BBC head that only a cam designed with the separation of one meant for the would work. At least that's my theory....


Go beyond the "bolt-on".

Re: where to find a cam
Sunday, April 19, 2009 3:17 PM
Quote:

That explains why the pre-'97s have such a wide separation

Lost me there.
Pre-97 BBC? Changeover was in 96 to sequential injection.
Pre-97 LN2? Changeover was in 98.

Are you saying the cam in the 92-97 LN2 is like the cam in the 5.7 truck because the ports are similar? 5.7 tbi is smallblock, siamesed intakes, swirl port head while the tbi big blocks from 88-95 had super-small "peanut ports" that breathed about as well as a lung cancer patient in the final stages of life. Neither is much like the LN2 in terms of intake port volume / cylinder volume ratio.

I'd expect the mystery of the sbc lobes on the LN2 cam lies in design and manufacturing costs. So much of what GM did in the late '80s and '90s was shared among different platforms to save costs that this just falls into the same pattern.

-->Slow
Re: where to find a cam
Monday, April 20, 2009 5:22 PM
I meant in lift & advertised duration, the "Series-I" LN2 (Let's just call the pre-'97 LN2 that from now-on, shall we?) compares to the TBI SBC cam. And the LSA/LDA is like that found on a BBC cam. And you don't hafta tell me about cost-savings had from sharing... I'm pretty "tuned-in" to the way auto-manufacture corporations think. Hence why I saw that the return of the "Ute"-body to American production seemed unlikely, unless they slate it as the only body-style that a 1/2-ton chassis model will be available in when full-size trucks go to fully unitized construction. Or drop the current compact-truck line to make a lower-cost 1/2-ton compact-truck that also meets impending safety regulations. But I digress...


Go beyond the "bolt-on".
Re: where to find a cam
Thursday, April 23, 2009 4:04 AM
Quote:

Let's just call the pre-'97 LN2 that from now-on, shall we?

Pre- 98 LN2 is the correct description. The change happened with the '98 model year.

-->Slow
Re: where to find a cam
Thursday, April 23, 2009 1:30 PM
Nickelin Dimer wrote:the "Series-I" LN2 (Let's just call the pre-'97 LN2 that from now-on, shall we?)
What do you call the 3-4 LN2 variants that came before? Series 1/4, series 1/2, series 3/4??




fortune cookie say: better a delay than a disaster
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