Does anyone know a good site to order oval aluminum tubing for intake runners? I wanna make an intake manifold but finding oval tube is difficult...
Oval tubing is difficult to work with because of the physics of a circle and how drastic they change when reshaped. Oval tubing doesn't like the bending By running an oval system the air will converge in the center as expected, however as the air gets deeper into the tube it will expand outward in a equal cylinder like fashion. When having half of your "jet Stream" hit a point of containment, the half that didn't come into contact will "break off". Another way to put it is ever seen an oval tornado? Since in essence a cold tornado is what we want hitting the block, a rapidly changing dynamic in the air will only slow the over all intake down, even more the "spin" your air has put on it from breather and rifling. Hope this helps in your decision if power is your gain.
Z doesn't mean last, it just lapped A.
We have no choice eco,s have oval ports so you need oval runners
I should have checked that first, sorry. I do how ever have yet another idea I would like to post cause I think of solutions to get things and either they work or not. Is there any way to seal as an oval but still push the air in a tighter circle?
Z doesn't mean last, it just lapped A.
Not sure what he is talking about but, 90% of FI ecotec's with aftermarket intake manifolds have oval runners with velocity stacks from that site posted above.
Im just talking something simple like a square body and runners with a ls1 tb... just need to replace the stock plastic one.. not sure if the saab manifold would be ok for the power i wanna make...
honestly if you are gonna build a intake.....build a intake manifold
like this one that brandon fetter built for me
RIP JESSE GERARD.....Youll always be in my thoughts and prayers...
For sale ^^^^ IF I recall!
I do like that one actually. I think all the ones like ttr arent the best looking
ZWolf24 wrote:Oval tubing is difficult to work with because of the physics of a circle and how drastic they change when reshaped. Oval tubing doesn't like the bending By running an oval system the air will converge in the center as expected, however as the air gets deeper into the tube it will expand outward in a equal cylinder like fashion. When having half of your "jet Stream" hit a point of containment, the half that didn't come into contact will "break off". Another way to put it is ever seen an oval tornado? Since in essence a cold tornado is what we want hitting the block, a rapidly changing dynamic in the air will only slow the over all intake down, even more the "spin" your air has put on it from breather and rifling. Hope this helps in your decision if power is your gain.
I dont have the slightest idea of what youre rambling on about.
Yea and either way im gonna be stuffing 20+psi down the runners it wouldnt have a change to converge
Brian (TheSundownFire) wrote:ZWolf24 wrote:Oval tubing is difficult to work with because of the physics of a circle and how drastic they change when reshaped. Oval tubing doesn't like the bending By running an oval system the air will converge in the center as expected, however as the air gets deeper into the tube it will expand outward in a equal cylinder like fashion. When having half of your "jet Stream" hit a point of containment, the half that didn't come into contact will "break off". Another way to put it is ever seen an oval tornado? Since in essence a cold tornado is what we want hitting the block, a rapidly changing dynamic in the air will only slow the over all intake down, even more the "spin" your air has put on it from breather and rifling. Hope this helps in your decision if power is your gain.
I dont have the slightest idea of what youre rambling on about.
What he talking about Brian?
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-MD- Enforcer wrote:Brian (TheSundownFire) wrote:ZWolf24 wrote:Oval tubing is difficult to work with because of the physics of a circle and how drastic they change when reshaped. Oval tubing doesn't like the bending By running an oval system the air will converge in the center as expected, however as the air gets deeper into the tube it will expand outward in a equal cylinder like fashion. When having half of your "jet Stream" hit a point of containment, the half that didn't come into contact will "break off". Another way to put it is ever seen an oval tornado? Since in essence a cold tornado is what we want hitting the block, a rapidly changing dynamic in the air will only slow the over all intake down, even more the "spin" your air has put on it from breather and rifling. Hope this helps in your decision if power is your gain.
I dont have the slightest idea of what youre rambling on about.
What he talking about Brian?
I get some bits and pieces but the majority of it just seems like something a stoned guy says right after "Man I can feel my hair growing."
BuiltNBoosted wrote:Not sure what he is talking about but, 90% of FI ecotec's with aftermarket intake manifolds have oval runners with velocity stacks from that site posted above.
I have to ask, what exactly your point was? I clicked the link, seen some pics, saw some numbers.(95% of all company's give the highest test results, not the average, average doesn't sell) That didn't say as to why, how, and can someone do it better with a little sweat and dedication. It was an explanation of what could be wasted and lost through just buying even from trusted companies, not knowing the equipment he has to work with himself or any other person reading, I tried to offer a general knowledge base for some potential innovation. If air intake is the goal, rather than having a discussion amongst wasted posts (Brian Excluded) maybe ask since you clearly state you don't know.
Z doesn't mean last, it just lapped A.
ZWolf24 wrote:BuiltNBoosted wrote:Not sure what he is talking about but, 90% of FI ecotec's with aftermarket intake manifolds have oval runners with velocity stacks from that site posted above.
I have to ask, what exactly your point was? I clicked the link, seen some pics, saw some numbers.(95% of all company's give the highest test results, not the average, average doesn't sell) That didn't say as to why, how, and can someone do it better with a little sweat and dedication. It was an explanation of what could be wasted and lost through just buying even from trusted companies, not knowing the equipment he has to work with himself or any other person reading, I tried to offer a general knowledge base for some potential innovation. If air intake is the goal, rather than having a discussion amongst wasted posts (Brian Excluded) maybe ask since you clearly state you don't know.
My point was that 90% of the high hp, single digit to mid 12 second cars run that style of intake manifold, with oval runners, with velocity stacks, and still go single digits to mid 12s all day long. I know I wouldn't want a circle piece of pipe leading into an oval hole... that sounds like you would be making all sorts of weird angles and shapes to get a square peg in a round hole...
Swirl is an important part of the port design, not the runner design. If you want to start talking about skin friction and pressure/flow gradients in a tube, so be it. However, you're probably talking about fractions of a percent difference between an RMR oval runner and a cylindrical runner of the same cross-sectional area, especially when our intake ports themselves are not cylindrical. Runner cross-sectional area, runner length, velocity stacks and plenum design will all have measurable effects. RMR oval vs cylindrical will not.
I have no signiture
ZWolf24 wrote:BuiltNBoosted wrote:Not sure what he is talking about but, 90% of FI ecotec's with aftermarket intake manifolds have oval runners with velocity stacks from that site posted above.
I have to ask, what exactly your point was? I clicked the link, seen some pics, saw some numbers.(95% of all company's give the highest test results, not the average, average doesn't sell) That didn't say as to why, how, and can someone do it better with a little sweat and dedication. It was an explanation of what could be wasted and lost through just buying even from trusted companies, not knowing the equipment he has to work with himself or any other person reading, I tried to offer a general knowledge base for some potential innovation. If air intake is the goal, rather than having a discussion amongst wasted posts (Brian Excluded) maybe ask since you clearly state you don't know.
Im not sure if youre insulting me or not. Wording is a little weird. I clearly do know. Ive got a pretty handy thread on intake design on the second page as well as a hand coded engine calculator for my own use.
I wasnt saying that your dont know what youre talking about but the explanation was awkward and unclear at best.
Whalesac wrote:Swirl is an important part of the port design, not the runner design. If you want to start talking about skin friction and pressure/flow gradients in a tube, so be it. However, you're probably talking about fractions of a percent difference between an RMR oval runner and a cylindrical runner of the same cross-sectional area, especially when our intake ports themselves are not cylindrical. Runner cross-sectional area, runner length, velocity stacks and plenum design will all have measurable effects. RMR oval vs cylindrical will not.
An even then from what Im aware its not about convergence like in a tornado and more about a slightly turbulent flow so that the fuel wont pool on the walls and can properly atomize before reaching the combustion chamber.
Mine are shaped like this...
Probably not optimal, but its better than stock me thinks.
Brian (TheSundownFire) wrote:ZWolf24 wrote:BuiltNBoosted wrote:Not sure what he is talking about but, 90% of FI ecotec's with aftermarket intake manifolds have oval runners with velocity stacks from that site posted above.
I have to ask, what exactly your point was? I clicked the link, seen some pics, saw some numbers.(95% of all company's give the highest test results, not the average, average doesn't sell) That didn't say as to why, how, and can someone do it better with a little sweat and dedication. It was an explanation of what could be wasted and lost through just buying even from trusted companies, not knowing the equipment he has to work with himself or any other person reading, I tried to offer a general knowledge base for some potential innovation. If air intake is the goal, rather than having a discussion amongst wasted posts (Brian Excluded) maybe ask since you clearly state you don't know.
Im not sure if youre insulting me or not. Wording is a little weird. I clearly do know. Ive got a pretty handy thread on intake design on the second page as well as a hand coded engine calculator for my own use.
I wasnt saying that your dont know what youre talking about but the explanation was awkward and unclear at best.
Whalesac wrote:Swirl is an important part of the port design, not the runner design. If you want to start talking about skin friction and pressure/flow gradients in a tube, so be it. However, you're probably talking about fractions of a percent difference between an RMR oval runner and a cylindrical runner of the same cross-sectional area, especially when our intake ports themselves are not cylindrical. Runner cross-sectional area, runner length, velocity stacks and plenum design will all have measurable effects. RMR oval vs cylindrical will not.
An even then from what Im aware its not about convergence like in a tornado and more about a slightly turbulent flow so that the fuel wont pool on the walls and can properly atomize before reaching the combustion chamber.
I apologize for my poor choice of wording, I hope not to offend anyone. I don't ever intend to insult anyone on a forum, just call me out if it seems 'cross aimed'. Since the forum was about custom, I got all the way I could into it. Absolutley the degree of customization it would take over the gains would never equal out to many.
This artical brought it all together for me and you all are correct. This artical claims to not know if a vortex or seperation causes MAFS to miscalculate, having crudly put together a few prototypes for the vortex theory with rare reflection of lean/rich compensation in the laptops logs. This could be luck, I will however continue the research and hope that in the interest of progress(and the nearly unlimited specialized knowledge base) that I haven't mispoken, and Brian I directly apologize for my poor choice of wording.
Z doesn't mean last, it just lapped A.
That article is a whole different thing from what Ive been working with. Since J-bodys dont run a MAF sensor, the need to "straighten" or "swirl" the air is kind of a moot point IMO. But I am a fan of velocity stacks in the intake cone. It helps to accelerate the air being drawn into the tube.
I was gonna run the saab intake but i really cant see it being good at high hp.. so i just wanna build one that works. I hate having to use stuff others built . Then its bought not built..
ecotecnik wrote:I was gonna run the saab intake but i really cant see it being good at high hp.. so i just wanna build one that works. I hate having to use stuff others built . Then its bought not built..
Ehhh. Nothing wrong with buying parts. Its the buying of the labor that makes it built not bought. Hahaha.
