question on throttle boddies and cams. - Performance Forum

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question on throttle boddies and cams.
Friday, October 18, 2013 10:42 PM
personally im a Toyota man but as im building my little 90 celica gts to 500 hp, im gonna need a decent daily beater. Ive heard the ld9 engines have great tuning potential so I got one and was happy to find how easily modifiable it is. currently its a 2001 with a 4-1 header and stainless header back exhaust. and ive got an LGO intake manifold for it so my first question is about throttle bodies. ive heard the 2.2 ecotecs have 57mm throttle boddies where as the LGO and even W41 have 56mm throttle boddies is this true and if so can I use the 2.2 throttle body? and my next question is about the "secret" cam swap. from what I understand I would use the 95 LD2 intake due to power steering and positioning sensor issues. and the 90-94 LD2 exhaust cam(correct me if im wrong) how ever from looking at the specs I was wondering if it would be possible to swap in the W41 cams? I don't plan on running power steering so if the issue with running cams other than the 95's is no power steering then I wont mind. how ever if people are seeing gains like 10-20hp from nothing more than +2degrees, +.006" on intake and +13degrees, +.029" for exhaust then imagine the power gains on +21degrees, +.056" intake and +32degrees, +.064". I did my calculations using the specs below. any help would be appreciated. im hoping for around 200hp I don't think its too much to ask out of these.

Camshaft Spec's

Stock 2.4 LD9 Cam Specs
198 degrees @ .050" with .354" lift for the intake
187 degrees @ .050" with .346" lift for the exhaust

Stock 2.3 LD2 (1989) Cam Specs
212 degrees @ .050" with .345" lift for the intake
212 degrees @ .050" with .345" lift for the exhaust

Stock 2.3 1995 Cam Specs
200 degrees @ .050" with .360" lift for the intake
200 degrees @ .050" with .360" lift for the exhaust

Stock 2.3 LD2 (1990) Cam Specs
200 degrees @ .050" with .375" lift for the intake
200 degrees @ .050" with .375" lift for the exhaust

Stock 2.3 HO cams Specs
212 degrees @ .050" with .410" lift for the intake
212 degrees @ .050" with .410" lift for the exhaust

Stock 2.3 W41 cams Specs
219 degrees @ .050" with .410" lift for the intake
219 degrees @ .050" with .410" lift for the exhaust

Re: question on throttle boddies and cams.
Saturday, October 19, 2013 5:29 AM
Can't use a 2.2 Ecotec TB. I think the Ecotec TB is 56mm as well (I could be wrong).

As for W41 cams yes you could run them but no power steering or cam positioning sensor, but the car can run without both.

Tuning would be a must with W41 cams to get it to run correct and make power.



FU Tuning



Re: question on throttle boddies and cams.
Saturday, October 19, 2013 8:32 AM
Make up a tubular intake manifold and you can use just about any TB you want. Tuning required



Re: question on throttle boddies and cams.
Saturday, October 19, 2013 8:34 AM
soo I couldn't use the 2.2 ecotec TB even if it was 57mm? so I guess my next question is can I use the TB off of a 3.8 or 3.4? i was hoping to get a 57-60mm TB. as for the W41 cams how would i go abouts installing them and having it run with no cam position sensor or is it maybe possible to rig up a cam position sensor some how? and what about the fuel system how much can that support hp wise? i might just have to take a trip on down to the junkyard mic out some TB's.
Re: question on throttle boddies and cams.
Saturday, October 19, 2013 8:40 AM
im on a very small budget this is basically gonna be my junkyard build. i really don't have the money (or the tools id need anyways) to buy the materials to make my own. im trying to limit myself to junkyard salvageable parts as i know the local junkyard people really well and they give me wicked deals. so if anyone has any info on how to make power by swapping a few parts from a junkyard it'd be greatly appreciated
Re: question on throttle boddies and cams.
Saturday, October 19, 2013 12:29 PM
As for the Throttle body at one point I took the throttle blade from the eco(it was not one of the newer fly by wire type) and had my machinist bore out my factry throttle bdy to 57mm. Cost me $45.

As far as the cams go I would probably try and go for HO cams as w41 cams would be pricey unless you won the junkyard lotto and found a set and people have had amazing results with HO cams. What you will need to run either or those, with no power steering, are the 2.3 springs since stockers could break with the higher lift, and the 2.3 cam towers and lifters. These will bolt right onto the 2.4 head.

You will need a tune to stop the top from leaning out and utilizing the power.





Re: question on throttle boddies and cams.
Saturday, October 19, 2013 3:20 PM
So why is it that the 2.2 TB can't be used? If you're using the blade of it with a 57mm bore that would mean the 2.2TB itself is already 57mm. As for the tune what would u recommend? I forgot to mention the head is port matched with the intake manifold as well.
Re: question on throttle boddies and cams.
Sunday, October 20, 2013 4:42 PM
you could use the 2.2 TB, however the linkages are different, some of the sensor plugs are different, and the bolt patter is different. Also it doesn't have the correct vacuum ports.



Re: question on throttle boddies and cams.
Sunday, October 20, 2013 6:17 PM
Also if your running a 56mm TB already that 1mm extra isn't worth the hassle. You can find 57mm tb's for the LD9 even up to 60mm.

Tuning would have to be custom. That means you have to find someone who knows how to tune our cars, or do it yourself. The software to do it is a minimum $550.



FU Tuning



Re: question on throttle boddies and cams.
Monday, October 21, 2013 7:34 AM
I actually dont have a tb quite yet thats why i was asking so i know what to look for before i head to the junkyard to save me some time, and I know how to tune its not hard I was just wondering if there where any specific programmers people are using. I had good results from the S-AFC with my celica but have heard good things about hptuners as well.
Re: question on throttle boddies and cams.
Monday, October 21, 2013 5:40 PM
S-AFC don't work on our cars. ECU does not use map for fueling. It is TPS based.



FU Tuning




Re: question on throttle boddies and cams.
Monday, October 21, 2013 7:22 PM
Certain year 97 cars were speed density and the S-AFC should work since they are map based. sadly the only way to figure out is by looking at the tune on HPtuners which defeats the purpose.



Re: question on throttle boddies and cams.
Monday, October 21, 2013 7:31 PM
So I'm guess hptuner is the best way to go for these cars then. What other programmers are there for the LD9? Is there anything cheaper than hptuners or is that the cheapest? Not trying to sound like a jew but its just a winter beater I want a Lil more balls but not if its gonna cost 500 bucks that's what I paid for the whole car! Lol
Re: question on throttle boddies and cams.
Tuesday, October 22, 2013 3:40 AM
Zs Z wrote:

Certain year 97 cars were speed density and the S-AFC should work since they are map based. sadly the only way to figure out is by looking at the tune on HPtuners which defeats the purpose.


You are correct, but so rare not worth mentioning as it gets peoples hopes up. I have come across two of these in the very many I have checked.

HPTuners is your best option.



FU Tuning



Re: question on throttle boddies and cams.
Tuesday, October 22, 2013 5:01 PM
huh? wouldnt the safc work on a sc reflash then? ...since its speed density i mean.

you can find larger tb's in our classifieds here quite often. if you dont wanna spend the money just roll with a stock 2.3 tb and ho intake if you are gonna run HO cams. if you are gonna run secret cams run the LO 2.3 intake and tb.. the tb is the same as the ho.

some have used a vortec 4.3 tb iirc, cory didnt you?

and a good junkyard find would be either a northstar tb (75mm) or a ford taurus SHO tb (65mm). the SHO one will work on the stock ho manifold flange... although i cant remember whats involved with making it work. i just know that it does and ive personally seen it work on paul tjepkes' LD9 making 201whp all motor. the northstar will require a new flange welded on.

as for cams, like cory said just run the HO's... they are much, much easier to find and cheaper than w41's.



RIP silver car. You will be missed.
Re: question on throttle boddies and cams.
Friday, October 25, 2013 9:23 AM
Couldn't find any HO's so I'm just doing the secret can swap do I use the ld9 Can position sensor or the ld2? Or does it matter?
Re: question on throttle boddies and cams.
Friday, October 25, 2013 10:42 AM
I have two options to run. An HO manifold modded with a 4.3 vortech TB(70 mm) and a custom log manifold with LS1 TB(75 mm). They are basically the same TB but they have opposite throws and the LS is 5mm larger.

As for your cam sensor question they are both the same.



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