A G6 with an F40 would be difficult to find in a yard, but if you did manage to find one, the F23 would still be cheaper and easier. The F23 doesn't need a custom clutch, it needs the F-body flywheel machined down. I believe people are using an upgraded 2200 clutch/pressure plate. The F40 doesn't need the F-body flywheel machined down, but it does need a custom clutch, pressure plate and a TOB spacer. As far as I know, the only company that currently makes a flywheel/pressure plate for the 3800/F40 is Spec and I've heard it costs about $800. I haven't verified that as I'm not that far yet. The G6 flywheel and clutch will not work with the 3800, the Fiero guys have already tried.
In sum, go with an F23.
Nic Crosby wrote:A G6 with an F40 would be difficult to find in a yard, but if you did manage to find one, the F23 would still be cheaper and easier. The F23 doesn't need a custom clutch, it needs the F-body flywheel machined down. I believe people are using an upgraded 2200 clutch/pressure plate. The F40 doesn't need the F-body flywheel machined down, but it does need a custom clutch, pressure plate and a TOB spacer. As far as I know, the only company that currently makes a flywheel/pressure plate for the 3800/F40 is Spec and I've heard it costs about $800. I haven't verified that as I'm not that far yet. The G6 flywheel and clutch will not work with the 3800, the Fiero guys have already tried.
In sum, go with an F23.
Alright. I'm guessing I'll need a stage 3 2200 clutch. Anyone know of the cheapest place to snag that?
last to posts you have used the word cheap if you attempting to do this swap CHEAP your gonna have problems if you need to save money save it on things you can change later clutch is no one of them
if you can't afford to do the swap then don't do it
if your doing all the work you need a good 3000 and then add on to that if people are building stuff for you harness and subframe or buy pieces and store them i had my flywheel and clutch befor the car
JBO since July 30, 2001
NOTa2_4 wrote:last to posts you have used the word cheap if you attempting to do this swap CHEAP your gonna have problems if you need to save money save it on things you can change later clutch is no one of them
if you can't afford to do the swap then don't do it
if your doing all the work you need a good 3000 and then add on to that if people are building stuff for you harness and subframe or buy pieces and store them i had my flywheel and clutch befor the car
I never mentioned that this swap was going to be cheap, I only asked for a site that sells a stage 3 clutch off the shelf for a good price. I never said I was taking shortcuts.
Turbo Tech
This is where I bought my stage 3 for my 3800SC swap, email them and tell them what you want, they will be more than accommodating to provide you with what you need for a clutch.
Isaak wrote:Turbo Tech
This is where I bought my stage 3 for my 3800SC swap, email them and tell them what you want, they will be more than accommodating to provide you with what you need for a clutch.
Thanks man.
I have done more questions before I start buying parts. What is the best approach to getting the gauges to work ( I would like my car to look oem with this swap as much as possible)? I'm probably going to run a custom cluster in the end anyways but if there is a way to get the gauges to work on a '98 to work entirely, I'd like to do that.
Also, for those of you who piggybacked the computers, did you need to tune both computers? I'm specifically asking for the-thing-thst-shall-not-be-discussed, because this swap puts you close to the governor in a 1/4 mile from what I see.
Oh, one more thing. Is the only difference in the Series II and Series III throttle bodies the cable vs. drive by wire? Plan is to run a Series 3 with Series II TB.
Kody LaGreca wrote:Isaak wrote:Turbo Tech
This is where I bought my stage 3 for my 3800SC swap, email them and tell them what you want, they will be more than accommodating to provide you with what you need for a clutch.
Thanks man.
I have done more questions before I start buying parts. What is the best approach to getting the gauges to work ( I would like my car to look oem with this swap as much as possible)? I'm probably going to run a custom cluster in the end anyways but if there is a way to get the gauges to work on a '98 to work entirely, I'd like to do that.
Also, for those of you who piggybacked the computers, did you need to tune both computers? I'm specifically asking for the-thing-thst-shall-not-be-discussed, because this swap puts you close to the governor in a 1/4 mile from what I see.
Oh, one more thing. Is the only difference in the Series II and Series III throttle bodies the cable vs. drive by wire? Plan is to run a Series 3 with Series II TB.
No problem.
NOTa2_4 would be the guy to speak to about the cluster and wiring, but all of that information is in this thread. I am running full autometer gauges, so I am not much help there.
I am not familiar with anyone who had to piggyback their 3rd gen? I am running a 99 gtp harness and pcm without issues. This has worked well for me so far!
Yes, you can run the series III with a series II TB. I run a series III N/A L26 block which is higher compression, but is a cheaper option compared to the L32, it loves boost!
Isaak wrote:Kody LaGreca wrote:Isaak wrote:Turbo Tech
This is where I bought my stage 3 for my 3800SC swap, email them and tell them what you want, they will be more than accommodating to provide you with what you need for a clutch.
Thanks man.
I have done more questions before I start buying parts. What is the best approach to getting the gauges to work ( I would like my car to look oem with this swap as much as possible)? I'm probably going to run a custom cluster in the end anyways but if there is a way to get the gauges to work on a '98 to work entirely, I'd like to do that.
Also, for those of you who piggybacked the computers, did you need to tune both computers? I'm specifically asking for the-thing-thst-shall-not-be-discussed, because this swap puts you close to the governor in a 1/4 mile from what I see.
Oh, one more thing. Is the only difference in the Series II and Series III throttle bodies the cable vs. drive by wire? Plan is to run a Series 3 with Series II TB.
No problem.
NOTa2_4 would be the guy to speak to about the cluster and wiring, but all of that information is in this thread. I am running full autometer gauges, so I am not much help there.
I am not familiar with anyone who had to piggyback their 3rd gen? I am running a 99 gtp harness and pcm without issues. This has worked well for me so far!
Yes, you can run the series III with a series II TB. I run a series III N/A L26 block which is higher compression, but is a cheaper option compared to the L32, it loves boost!
The point of the piggyback would be to have the Cav ECU run the gauges so they would (hopefully) work correctly.
Not necessary if you change interior harness's, that information is somewhere in this thread, perhaps even on the 1st page.
piggy back is so GAY the amount of work involved to run both PCMs is more then just swapping dash harnesses and cluster and you have 1 less PCM and a lot less wires i DON'T do piggy back PCMs EVER,
i have done my harness a bunch of times just doin differenent things i used to be setup like isaaks and his harness is an exact replica of my orginal harness i have do a 3400 like it aswell and a 3400 and 2 3800 00+ ones and i think isaak my have the 1 3800 one not sure tho
piggy back is just dumb IMO
JBO since July 30, 2001
Matt, I think it's a 99 harness because I am using a 99 pcm... but I don't remember now.
I agree about the piggy backing, it would be less hassle to just swap out the harness and replace it with the newer harness. Then you can run a clean wiring setup and stock gauges.
Isaak wrote:Matt, I think it's a 99 harness because I am using a 99 pcm... but I don't remember now.
I agree about the piggy backing, it would be less hassle to just swap out the harness and replace it with the newer harness. Then you can run a clean wiring setup and stock gauges.
You mean run the 00+ Cav BCM with the 3800 ECM?
isaak your 99 harness is an image of my old one mine was a 98 when i ran autometer gauges but identical
use a 04 impala SS supercharged PCM and wiring and it will cummunicate to a 00+ j-body BCM and cluster
all you need to do is get an 00 plus lower dash (no cracks if you can find one cause nows the time if yours is cracked) and the cluster and BCM
then theres 3 wires i think that need to be changed and your done
that work s way less time then adding a 2nd PCM into a harness. buy some parts save a little coin (looks cleaner) or pay more for a harness i know my piggy back harnesses if someone really wanted it i would double the price right off the hop
JBO since July 30, 2001
^ Listen to this guy ^
I run a GTP PCM but am using all autometer gauges, I use the stock wiring for speedo and fuel.
Ok guy's I have some questions about the filter relocation, I know you've touched the subject a bit but I'm unsure if I understood correctly so please don't hate on me I only want to be safe!
I was working on doing the 3800 swap myself but ended up abandon ship when I found an already swaped cavy for 3k, so I get to keep my other motor that I had baught to build it up, anyway's back on topic.
I went through a few filters from having the axle hitting and destroying the filter, I'm running an f23 tranny, from what I understood the intense racing relocation kit has been tryied but it still rubbs a bit? because from what I can see it would give me a lot more space between the axle and the hose fittings right? but if it still rubbs is there a way to use this kit and gain more space?
I'm starting to think (if I have to) try to move the motor a bit higher if at all possible or maybe ahead a little bit? I have a bit of space in front since my coil packs where relocated on the firewall.
what would be my best option according to you guys? again I'm sorry if this has been answered but I'm really unsure on how to do this properly, don't want do redo it 20 times I've already wasted so much time trying to figure something out! thanks a bunch for the help
if the engine is put in square and properly you should have room with no hitting. i'm running a prokit and the angled oil filter housing the angled one is found on W body cars
my filter is in stock 3800 location and have never damaged a filter to this day and mine was done in summer 2008 your either way to low or your engine is to far back
JBO since July 30, 2001
If you have your engine far enough forward you will not have an issue with the filter rubbing.
In my case, it rubbed... a lot. When I installed my motor I had it installed a little farther back than "normal" for personal reasons. I was forced to purchase the Intense relocation kit and quickly realized that the fittings were in the way of the axle. I went above and beyond what I should have and had the relocation bracket modified, had fittings welded to the side of the bracket. It now works perfectly with more than enough clearance. But cost me a lot of time and even more $... including an engine.
My suggestion to you is test fit everything before anything is in final position, the biggest hurdle is that filter, once you clear that your fit. Oh and keep your oil pan above the subframe.
Steven Murphy wrote:I was working on doing the 3800 swap myself but ended up abandon ship when I found an already swaped cavy for 3k)
You found a Cavalier with a 3800 in it for 3g? I hope you bought it... as long as the swap was done correctly.
Yes I bought it, but I'm having problem's with the filter clearance, I'm going to order the intense kit and give it a try, if it still rubs a bit, I'll try pulling the motor ahead a bit, I'm basically using this motor as a ''test'' and once everythin is to my liking (clearence and functinality) the I'm going to rebuild my second motor to have the performance I'm after and just switch the two
so I'm not to scared if a screw something up and break it it'll be a quick swap after I've got everything done properly.
This car I bought, I'm something like the 5th owner since the swap was done but the last guy was an idiot and f*cked it up pretty bad, I got it with a busted motor mount, and a few other things that sounded weird, I'm trying to fix the idiots mistakes now!
NOTa2_4 wrote:if the engine is put in square and properly you should have room with no hitting. i'm running a prokit and the angled oil filter housing the angled one is found on W body cars
my filter is in stock 3800 location and have never damaged a filter to this day and mine was done in summer 2008 your either way to low or your engine is to far back
My guess is the engine is not quite square, I'll have to take mesurements and see.. because I'm not that low, not sure of the lowering kit but I know I'm not too low and I would like to go lower,
I'll be trying the intense kit soon and then maybe move the motor around a bit and hope to find the sweet spot! thanks for the help guys, much apreciated
Measure 3 times, cut once... take your time and you will do it.
The intense bracket is fine, it is the fittings you need to worry about, I had a hell of a time finding 3/4" fittings that would bend 90* in such a short distance. That is why I gave up and had fittings welded onto the side and welded up the front holes. It's nice to know people that can weld real well.
You won't have to worry about this if your engine is up far enough, just put it where you want it and then turn the wheels lock to lock with an axle installed.
welding is not a problem, I can rent a welder and do it myself (really need to buy one lol ) I'll be doing some mesuring this weekend I guess, hopefully I'll have the motor set up in a better position, while I'm at it I think I'll see if I can lift it up a bit to have the oil pan a tad higher then the frame so I can lower the car more and maybe save me the trouble of going through more oil pan's than filters!
FYI, the bottom of my pan sits flush with my subframe tubing. For obvious reasons, you want it higher
Good luck!
would love to see pics of this swap
hot its this messed up on location is beyond me
JBO since July 30, 2001
here you go :p a @!#$ty cell phone picture, I'll be doing some work on it this weekend and take better pics, I'll start a thread for it not to polute the thread
