So fellas I have decided to go with AEM EMS and I am starting to save today. lol
The controls that are available through that damn thing are outstanding, and I am starting to fall in love with the unit.
By the time all the others come out with a tunning product I will grow horns, I am not as patient anymore with my semi-built motor.

Here it goes now, I talked to their rep and they told me that the most important thing to look into for me is this.
IAT sensor since it picks up the Intake Air Temps and we have them.
Is it in range, most likely since they all use GM style/based sensors.
MAP sensor, GM 3 Bar no problem.
Crank position sensor no problem as well.

CAM POSITION SENSOR!!! Very important for the unit to be able to work and we don't have them on our cars.

Now, I see all these write ups on MSD and Cam Sync Generators, but will they be able to provide the signal for the EMS?? They should be able to since they provide it to MSD, but can you get it from MSD in the right signal and send it to EMS?
GM is running some kind of Generator on the Grand Am cup Cobalt or the 1400 hp one, but it eliminates the power steering pump and it bolts to the camshaft and it has wires coming out of it for signal.
I don't want to get rid of my PS pump since my car IS a daily driver and I do wanna make a lot of HP and make it possible for everybody.
11.90's I see as a window of oportunity.

Any input about this would be greatly appreciated.

BTW, I thought about getting a DIS-7 with distributor, coils and wires, and that would most likely work but this is very expensive way to go about it, and I still lose my PS pump, the faster the car gets the more ridiculous and street unfriendly it is.
I spin tires up to 90 mph, and get to end of 4th which is 120 in 12 seconds, I need to raise the rev limiter to about 7500 rpm, so I can stay in 4th for the track at 120+ mph, taller tires can only do so much.
DIS-7 $600
coils $100
wires $chump change
distributor $250
That right there is a grand and then 2 more for the EMS $1700 for the race and 200-300 for the universal 3 foot harness more for a 6 foot one.

With DIS-2 Sync generator and NAPA plugs $400-500, SunCavi saves $500. lol which can by my rims, noone please ask where I get the money from and think I am rich by no means. I do not have a big company behind me, but my own back. I am a sad and obssesed person whose addiction is boost, HP and slicks!

One more thing, sorry for the long post and Rodimus, even tho we had some differences in the past I love your MSD write up, you made it as easy as pushing gas pedal.


Best time:"""11.946""" @ 114.73 mph @17psi 1.83--60"
11 second daily driver!!!!
Race Related 727-561-9440
Shop of choice for your 11 second J body!

Also, built bottom end and or top end LSJ and L61's available.
13's ----12's ----11's ----10's

well I did a lot of help with the msd write up, he did a lot fo the brain work and so did nustyle..

I dont think the cam sync will work because all it does is use the first 2 crank rotatiions to fake a cam signal (just like the factory idi) to make the ecu think there is a cam position sensor. after those 2 rotations it really doesnt do anything to my knowledge.. but I am sure rodimus or nutsyle can shed more light...



LE61T PTE6262 Powered

Wouldn't megasquirt be easier and far less expensive but just as customizable ?



15.574 @ 89 mph stock

what about the Haltech E6GMX? Uses factory GM sensors, and doesn't require a cam sensor reading. (as it runs batch-fire)

The only drawback to that particular Haltech, is that it doesn't have wideband support

GM is using a cam spun distributor on their non-massive power cars. Not a cam position sensor to be found on them either. Very interesting next move though.



I used to race cars, now I race myself.
5K PB: 24:50
10K PB: 54:26

Phil good job both of you guys for real.
As for Stevefire, I haven't looked into much of anything but I have looked into the EMS and from a 2 step limiter, boost controler, boost by gear, timing curve adjustment in ANY gear, and injector manipulation of any kind I mean it is god sent.
We just have not been blessed with cam position sensor.

If you guys have a Performance Built book on page 97 Figure 181, you will see it says:
"MSD Distributor used for cam sync on DIS ignition" and it has a picture of this cylinder looking thing that bolts on to where the PS pump is but it is not a regular distributor/
It also says they are using DIS-7, Pro Power HVC II Coil, Distributor, wires.

But for up to 600 hp on gasoline MSD DIS 4 Plus, Blaster SS coils, and Honda CBR 1000 Coil on plug coils. Now, how can they use independent coils, is it because of
DIS-4, if so is it basiclly the same to hook it up or are there any tricks to 4??

Hypsy, I am just tired of waiting, I have had this car since 99 and started hard core modding with my LD9 about 3 years ago and I have been waiting since then, with Eco I have been for about 1 1/2 year and I am still waiting for this motor too.
Screw it.
Thanks guys.



Best time:"""11.946""" @ 114.73 mph @17psi 1.83--60"
11 second daily driver!!!!
Race Related 727-561-9440
Shop of choice for your 11 second J body!

Also, built bottom end and or top end LSJ and L61's available.
13's ----12's ----11's ----10's

TTT


Best time:"""11.946""" @ 114.73 mph @17psi 1.83--60"
11 second daily driver!!!!
Race Related 727-561-9440
Shop of choice for your 11 second J body!

Also, built bottom end and or top end LSJ and L61's available.
13's ----12's ----11's ----10's

damn, alot of info to cover...... or try to.

I think the 2.0 in the cobalt SS has a cam sensor...... at least its mentioned in the HCI article on how to install/time/degree cams into the EcoTec..... they say its a 'cam sensor gear'..... maybe its something you can transfer? (Dec'05) Otherwise it might be possible to put a 'sensor pad' of some sort on the cam, and drill/mount a cam sensor in the cam cover...... Just need to find what phase to index the cam at.

I have a Delco MEFI IV stand alone, made by the company that makes GM sensors....... and it can run in either batch or sequential...... depending on if you have a cam sensor or not (makes it nice.... can run it on the drag car, or on my '02)

any place online I can find those CBR 1000 Coils? Might be something I want to put on our drag car........




SPD RCR Z - '02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT - '04 GTO 305whp
W41 BOI - '78 Buick Opel Isuzu W41 Swap

Bike shop. lol
I am not really sure where you can find those coils but why not be able to use the LSJ coils, they are independent drive you only need to maybe re-wire them, but you have to do that regardless.

Would it be possible to make a cam sensor?? well not the sensor per se.
So when I took the Eco or the LD9 apart they have a reluctor wheel on the crank for the position sensor, but Eco doesn't have that on the cam.
How would you be able to intergrate that into the system, the easiest part would be drilling the valve cover for the cam sensor.

I feel stuck here, but I am gonna try to get out of it.
Thanks Brian.


Best time:"""11.946""" @ 114.73 mph @17psi 1.83--60"
11 second daily driver!!!!
Race Related 727-561-9440
Shop of choice for your 11 second J body!

Also, built bottom end and or top end LSJ and L61's available.
13's ----12's ----11's ----10's

If I could get some LSJ coils, maybe I'll give them a try.

I have yet to do much on the Eco's yet, but I'm sure you can come up with something. It sounds like the LSJ (the S/C 2.0 right?) has a sprocket thats bolts to the cam, and the sensor reads off that.... if thats true, you could probably make something, or steal it off that engine. But like I said, I havn't had to much hands on yet on those motors.

Otherwise, yea..... do it like the sensor on the 2.4...... find the right spot, and weld a pad onto the cam..... then mount a 2.4 cam sensor on/in the cam cover.....




SPD RCR Z - '02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT - '04 GTO 305whp
W41 BOI - '78 Buick Opel Isuzu W41 Swap

Now are you sure the LSJ has the cam sensor??? I didn't see one.



Best time:"""11.946""" @ 114.73 mph @17psi 1.83--60"
11 second daily driver!!!!
Race Related 727-561-9440
Shop of choice for your 11 second J body!

Also, built bottom end and or top end LSJ and L61's available.
13's ----12's ----11's ----10's

I know one of the tricks to the motorcycle coils. I learned it from a guy who expiremented with it on a few other cars. It's one of the things I'm looking into doing and I'm waiting on GM to give me a little more information. They did give me quite a bit this past fall at the NDRA World Finals though...and it kinda blew me away.



I used to race cars, now I race myself.
5K PB: 24:50
10K PB: 54:26

SunCavi_L61T3/T04E wrote:Now are you sure the LSJ has the cam sensor??? I didn't see one.

I'm just going off of what HCI said in their EcoTec cam article..... I have yet to see the motor in person. I believe it says its under the cover.... not sure where the sensor itself is, just that the ring for it is on the cam..... ?

How do the EcoTecs fire (inject) sequentialy, w/o the cam sensor? Or are they batch fire?




SPD RCR Z - '02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT - '04 GTO 305whp
W41 BOI - '78 Buick Opel Isuzu W41 Swap

Cam sync is generated on the Eco's its just not from a sensor. It works much like the Saturn setup. It takes discharge from one coil and generates it. There is a wire for cam sync (IIRC) and I bet if you use that for the AEM's signal it will work. Our stock pcm's need to get cam sync, so I can only assume the AEM would function the same way. Find that wire and put a voltometer on it and see what its doing. Make sure its acting how you want it to. Might work with no more effort than that. g/l



Sven you totally quarterloafed your computer..

Your hitting around the point but not exactly, the ecotec L61 does not use a cam position sensor like the 2.2 OHV and 2.4 twin cam motors. For this reason in the stock ignition system detects when the 4th plug is firing to determine the cam sync signal, when you hook up an msd you lose this, hence the reason for the 8914 part. It simply hooks into your trigger wires and detects when the 4th cylinder is firing and sends that signal back to the PCM

Going to the LSJ parts one important thing to keep in mind here, that car uses a coil on plug ignition system as does the new 2.4 VVT eco, totally different setup there and I have no idea if they determine cam sync signal the same way or through a sensor.

Now going more into detail using your setup the AEM if it accepts stock sensor inputs should have no problem reading the signal off the 8914 since its designed to keep the factory pcm happy in the first place. I'm not sure what kinda coils your using if your still using the stock ICM, but as long as your still using dual coil packs you shouldnt have any trouble reading cam position with the 8914 part, and since its only 50 bucks, thats prob cheaper than any factory LSJ part anyway, for your setup prob the best box is the programmable msd the 6212, it has the highest power of any dis that will work for the ecotec other than the digital 7 which of course you have to use msd's cam sync distributor and lose the power steering , and none of us have ever hooked anything like that up other than GM, thats what they use in thier race cars

For coils go with the 8224 msd ones and the msd plug wires, as for the top mph problems theres ways around that also, vss uses 4000 pulses per mile, all you do is fool the pcm into seeing less pulses and you can go faster



1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85

7x crank signal and AEM??


sig not found

Hey Protomec what did you mean by that, can you please explain??
Rodimus can you please PM me, because since I trap 115 it really sucks having to pull the sensor out every time.
I have not yet got to splicing it and stuff, I think that is ghetto, but if it takes me soldering a resistor or something as a capacitor I can do that.
Now I assume it will throw the speedo off of course, but I can draw my own little numbers in there. lmao

Red line cannot be changed regardless, this would just be the VSS fix am I correct??
Thanks guys./



Best time:"""11.946""" @ 114.73 mph @17psi 1.83--60"
11 second daily driver!!!!
Race Related 727-561-9440
Shop of choice for your 11 second J body!

Also, built bottom end and or top end LSJ and L61's available.
13's ----12's ----11's ----10's

If anyone wants them and can get me a part number I can get those coils. I used to work for a bike shop and I'm sure they could get them if no one else could.



I used to race cars, now I race myself.
5K PB: 24:50
10K PB: 54:26

Almost any automotive sensor is compatible with any Injection PCM.
The position/pressure/flow sensors are all 0-5v for the most part.
The pulse sensors (i.e. vss, cam, and crank) are either 12v square wave, 5v square wave, or A-C sine wave.

Since practically all of the sensors fall into these categories, they are all technically compatible (the sensor works).

But the signal they generate may not work.
Some crank signals are one pulse for each cylinder ignition (same as an old distributer signal). Others are multiples of the cylinder count (32 or 64 pulses per rev on a V8) or they are based on a simple division of 360 degrees (i.e. 60 teeth or 6 degrees per tooth).
The overwhelming majority of cars are this way. J's are not. J's are a 7 tooth pattern.
Most GM engines are the usual, just the 4cyls are this (7x) way.

Most of the aftermarket PCM are incapable of using a 7x signal.
I'm not saying AEM can't use it, I don't know. But the odds are way skewed that it can't.


sig not found

I should add that this is why MSD created an Eco Distributor in the 1st place. To generate a conventional crank signal.

It is also why Eagle sells cranks with no tone ring as an option.


sig not found

Hypsy..... I'll see what I can dig up on the coils...... or maybe I'll look for some LSJ coils....

Protomec..... good info, like always.




SPD RCR Z - '02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT - '04 GTO 305whp
W41 BOI - '78 Buick Opel Isuzu W41 Swap

Rodimus Prime wrote:Your hitting around the point but not exactly, the ecotec L61 does not use a cam position sensor like the 2.2 OHV and 2.4 twin cam motors. For this reason in the stock ignition system detects when the 4th plug is firing to determine the cam sync signal, when you hook up an msd you lose this, hence the reason for the 8914 part. It simply hooks into your trigger wires and detects when the 4th cylinder is firing and sends that signal back to the PCM

Going to the LSJ parts one important thing to keep in mind here, that car uses a coil on plug ignition system as does the new 2.4 VVT eco, totally different setup there and I have no idea if they determine cam sync signal the same way or through a sensor.

Now going more into detail using your setup the AEM if it accepts stock sensor inputs should have no problem reading the signal off the 8914 since its designed to keep the factory pcm happy in the first place. I'm not sure what kinda coils your using if your still using the stock ICM, but as long as your still using dual coil packs you shouldnt have any trouble reading cam position with the 8914 part, and since its only 50 bucks, thats prob cheaper than any factory LSJ part anyway, for your setup prob the best box is the programmable msd the 6212, it has the highest power of any dis that will work for the ecotec other than the digital 7 which of course you have to use msd's cam sync distributor and lose the power steering , and none of us have ever hooked anything like that up other than GM, thats what they use in thier race cars

For coils go with the 8224 msd ones and the msd plug wires, as for the top mph problems theres ways around that also, vss uses 4000 pulses per mile, all you do is fool the pcm into seeing less pulses and you can go faster

hey matt,

isn't there a way to run the digital 7 without using the cam sync distributor? I wanted to run a 2 coil waste spark type ignition using the digital 7 and 2 blaster coils (like on the 2200) for my ecotec.

IM me on aim.. my sn is DaFlyinSkwirl

SunCavi_L61T3/T04E wrote:Bike shop. lol


Would it be possible to make a cam sensor?? well not the sensor per se.
So when I took the Eco or the LD9 apart they have a reluctor wheel on the crank for the position sensor, but Eco doesn't have that on the cam.
How would you be able to intergrate that into the system, the easiest part would be drilling the valve cover for the cam sensor.
.

i'd say if this is your last option, or possibly want to look into it more. head over to the megasquirt forums, even though you don't want to run MS i'm sure someone over there knows enough about the electronics and such to make a cam sensor signal work. those guys are geniuses