Couldnt agree more. Ford Brown Tops are rated at 36lbs and using Green Tops would be a BAD idea. You MUST GET Hpt in order to get these to idle correctly... no easy way around it unless you would like to rewire your car to 2000-2002 and use the S/C reflash, that would also work instead of using HPT. As far as the SAFC, SAFC=@!#$ty Ass Fuel Controller (for jbodies at least) Enough said. Also make sure you have the proper distance for your Wideband as to not fry it out... Too close and it will burn up too far and your AFR reading will be slow and inaccurate. Listen to some of the more experinced boosted J owners and not just the bums who think they know whats up. It takes more then just reading a bunch of info to know what your talking about. it takes trial and error.

Dont turn the base pressure too far down or you could run into a lean issue... IIRC a fmu takes the boost pressure and multilplies it by 12:1 10:1...etc right now im using the brown tops N/A and see 65% duty cycle at 6500ish rpms. with a base of roughly 35 psi.

Also the heated sensors iirc NEVER cam in the jbodies.

I said ditch the fpr all together, as for not working on J's, I've had 2, both boosted using a similar fuel setup, the same one I have today, no afpr or fpr on the rail. But having an afmu, I had 36lbs. injectors in my 96z with the gm s/c, it ran great, I believe I ran a 13.8 once with it, but of course that was back before there was even a boost forum, and I wasn't even a member of JBO at the time. The 04 has 44lbs injectors but has yet to be at the track but it runs a 12.0:1 afr at wot, so to say I'm inexperienced, I don't think so. As for the o2 thing, ok so I was wrong about having heated o2, it is still pointless, simply because you will still get to closed loop within a few minutes of stating the vehicle. As for this comment

Quote:

it takes trial and error.

, quite frankly I was boosted and tuning before you even graduated high school. I'm only offering advice, there are plenty of guys out there that don't run any fpr of any kind and just fun an afmu, 3 in my area, and all 3 run fine. BTW I had a hand in tuning all 3, one being mine.


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4 Cams...32 Valves...5 Liters...This Could Get Fun!

Just 2 throw my 2 cents in xls2k4 I know him personally, and he does know what he is talking about. He runs his car the way he is talking with no fpr and I just road in it last saturday and can say it runs great. He's not wrong in saying that there should be no fpr, its just another solution maybe to EnviouZ problem, xls is experienced and knows what he is talking about so I would take his advice into consideration instead of bashing him for not being experienced enough...


<aDdiCtEd 2 BoOsT>...EcOtEc...

Its okay guys, nothing to get terribly upset about I am willing to listen to your suggestions and I appreciate ALL of your help, SweetnessGT; thanks a lot for all your help and for looking out for me I really appreciate that. I guess then what it comes down to is for me to just tinker with it until I find a setup that is good enough to drive on until I can save some $$ for HPT.

XLS2K4 wrote:I said ditch the fpr all together, as for not working on J's, I've had 2, both boosted using a similar fuel setup, the same one I have today, no afpr or fpr on the rail. But having an afmu, I had 36lbs. injectors in my 96z with the gm s/c, it ran great, I believe I ran a 13.8 once with it, but of course that was back before there was even a boost forum, and I wasn't even a member of JBO at the time. The 04 has 44lbs injectors but has yet to be at the track but it runs a 12.0:1 afr at wot, so to say I'm inexperienced, I don't think so. As for the o2 thing, ok so I was wrong about having heated o2, it is still pointless, simply because you will still get to closed loop within a few minutes of stating the vehicle. As for this comment

Quote:

it takes trial and error.

, quite frankly I was boosted and tuning before you even graduated high school. I'm only offering advice, there are plenty of guys out there that don't run any fpr of any kind and just fun an afmu, 3 in my area, and all 3 run fine. BTW I had a hand in tuning all 3, one being mine.

Well either way i think that Envious should take a look at some of the fastest boosted cars and see how they were run... because there setups were obviously done correctly, not someone who jumps on here as a self proclaimed tuning "expert".... and i am by no means a tuning expert, but i do have the help from one of the fastest boosted J owners.

Who cares about age... You could be old as @!#$ and still not know a damn thing about cars, ive seen it quite a few times.... Ive even talked to people with modded cars who had no idea how the engine worked. Whatever.... keep spewing your bull@!#$ and when his motor blows from your incorrect info i hope you pay for a new one.

Quote:

Okay guys, so I finally finished my turbo instal and I'm very please with how everything turned out. That being said, I finally got it started tonight and I'm having a few tuning issues. I'm running on the stock fuel pump, Ford brown top injectors, a cartech 2025, Accel APFR, and a GTP heated O2 sensor. I have a AEM UEGO wideband installed and I'm having some trouble with the A/F at idle. First time starting it up just poured black smoke. Wideband went to 10.0 (richest reading) and pegged. I had my dad adjusting the FPR as I watched the A/F. We managed to get it up to a 10.8 but thats it and the FPR was maxed out. Keep in mind this is all at idle, no reving, no boost. I'm kind of dumbfounded cause I really thought the idle would be really simple adjustment of the AFPR. But I'm kinda stumped anyone else have a similar problem or perhaps some insight. I won't lie Im a boost newb and could use some wisdom here...

ok, I haven't read a whole lot on here, but I will post the right information. I am not taking any sides or anything, but I will post some FACTS from the BEGI site.. they made that thing, I think they know what they are talking about.

1)if you are using stock sized injectors, use your stock FPR, and stock Fuel Pressure.
-if you have increased you fuel injector size from 200cc to 400cc, it is simple math that you need to turn down 50% fuel pressure. So if you are running 43.5psi stock (IIRC at atmospheric pressure) you have to change it to about 21.75psi at atmosperic pressure (your computer can adjust a couple percent so no worries there.

2)the best way to lower idle to atmospheric pressure is by the use of an AFPR, everybody know that is a fact, not saying there is not other ways to do it, but that is the easiest way, and has been done a million times, instead of just 3.

ok, now what the H3LL is a FMU for... hmmm.. according to www.bellengineering.com

Quote:

2025 Aftermarket turbo and supercharger applications (1/8 NPT)

so lets see what the link does when I click on it. keep in mind they made the d@mn thing, keep in mind this is from the site:

Quote:

Rising Rate Regulators
The BEGi standard rising-rate regulators are designed to increase fuel pressure and fuel flow in a fuel injection system by augmenting the factory fuel pressure regulator. These regulators must be used in conjunction with a factory regulator, which provides the base fuel pressure (the fuel pressure at fuel rail during idle conditions). Our Multi Role line of regulators are designed as stand alone systems and eliminate the need for a factory regulator.

augmented, augmenting
1. To make or become greater in size, number, strength, amount, etc.

Thesaurus: add to, increase,

Quote:

These regulators must be used in conjunction with a factory regulator

ok, so according to the people who designed your 2025, you need a FPR or AFPR, your choise, because that will control everything OUT of boost.

the big selling feature on the 2025, is you can set the base pressure (at 0psi which some people use as the atmospheric instead of using a FPR or AFPR) it can work, it has worked in the past, but that is not what the part is designed for. It can be unpredictable out of boost, so personally I would buy something that was designed for your application to ensure reliabilty.

I don't know what to say about the o2 sensor, but 2 wire are NOT heated, 4 wire are, and 5 wire are for 0-5v. 2 wire ARE NOT heated, and work on 0-1v. Stevefire and SweetnessGT are 2 people that have used those sensors in theJ platform, so I would listen to what they have to say. What I would say. If you are having issues getting it to run right, first things first, put your stock o2 sensor back in the car (provided no antifreeze has been near the sensor), check the MAP sensor vacumm line, the begi vacumm line, and what is your Fuel pressure at idle? do the math calculation and you will know what it should be at. GM will richen to 10:1 or more(high was my wideband reads) if you unplug the stock o2, or have the incorrect on plugged in. ( i am not saying the GTP one won't work, but I have never done it, some guys have and had good luck) also check the wiring to the o2 sensor and the part number on the sensor.

IF you remove the begi, gtp sensor, and just set your fuel pressure, what happens then?? if it works, ad stuff till it stops working, then adjust from there. but you will get it to work, and according to Bell you need your FPR or AFPR, in conjunction with the FMU.


there is some really bad info on this post so far, but do not run high impedance injectors on your car, it will wreck stuff and cost you money.





Keep in mind, I have only had hands on experience boosting 3 j-bodies, a 450whp 95 acr neon with srt swap, and 76 datsun 260z with 280z turbo swap... so I am a newbie.


HP Tuners | Garrett T3/T04B | 2.5" Charge Pipes | 2.5" Downpipe | 650 Injectors | HO Manifold | Addco front/rear | Motor Mounts | HKS SSQV | Spec stage 3 | AEM UEGO Wideband | Team Green LSD | FMIC | 2.3 cams | 2.3 oil pump swap | 280WHP | Now ECOTECED

ge_forcez22 wrote:ok, so according to the people who designed your 2025, you need a FPR or AFPR, your choise, because that will control everything OUT of boost.

No ish. I can't figure out why people keep saying you can ditch your FPR, the 2025 does not read vacuum. If you want to use ONLY a RRFPR, you need the 2035 model.



fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.

Okay first off thanks a LOT Ge-force, It has been in my mind for a while that maybe the reason for all the trouble is the O2 sensor, so I will try out putting the stock one back in tonight. I have been kind of wary of running the thing for very long because my oil feed restrictor is not here yet and I really dont want to blow the oil seals on my turbo before I even get to drive the dam thing....So yeah I will try some stuff tonight to see if I can make it better, because I'm really thinking my computer is whats messing up, NOT my new hardware. I will post back later with what I find out.

yah that is what I was saying, or impyling lol, with the 2025 it says you should use an AFPR or FPR. The 2035 does both and costs a little more money. I believe he has the 2025, so IMO he should keep his AFPR.


HP Tuners | Garrett T3/T04B | 2.5" Charge Pipes | 2.5" Downpipe | 650 Injectors | HO Manifold | Addco front/rear | Motor Mounts | HKS SSQV | Spec stage 3 | AEM UEGO Wideband | Team Green LSD | FMIC | 2.3 cams | 2.3 oil pump swap | 280WHP | Now ECOTECED