There's some discussion going on in our regional forum about an LD9 supercharger installation.
Guy 1 buys a used blower off guy 2. Guy 2 does the installation, but doesn't remove the studs from the block that are supposed to be replaced with bolts that come with the kit.
Guy 1 has all sorts of issues and eventually takes the blower off to have it inspected. He notices there's holes in runners 1 and 4. See the picture.
So he now thinks guy 2 sold him a faulty blower and must have known about the holes.
I frankly can't think of any reason why anyone would put those holes there on purpose. They're just not in a practical location for nitrous or methanol and there's only 2 of them.
Guy 3 presents a theory that the studs that should have been removed have bored their way through the runners over time. On further analysis, this seems at least plausable, given a few assumptions that haven't been investigated.
I figure though, that if this were the case then at least one other person must have made this mistake at some point and had this happen.
So I give it to all of you here... have you EVER seen anything like this? Does anyone have an explanation for this mystery?
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Could it be the tool used on the studs?
Those look man made. Look at the one on the snout end. What the hell is that stuff near the hole??? looks like some kind of filler or epoxy.
Best bet would be to take said stud and 2 nuts to test your theory, one to simulate the head and the other to hold it in place.
Seems like a great possibility though, as like you said, what else could cause it? Must be really close though (like hitting) as it's not like the S/C and the head move seperately!
It's a somewhat crappy pic. Let's not start analysing it in too much detail. That could be some kind of filler or epoxy... or it could be a smudging of grease from the hands of the mechanic who just took it off.
As for the tool used to tighten the studs... when I did mine, I remember how tedious it was to tighen those damned things. It was like... 1/16th of a turn at a time with a spanner barely fitting. I don't think that's even likely.
Really wondering if anyone can back up the theory about the studs being in the way, leaving the blower with just a bit of play and then slowly wearing their way through it.
Remember... hardened steel studs are going to win against cast aluminum. I'm just wondering whether there is contact there, whether they'd interfere with the blower seating properly, and whether that could allow movement that would let them wear through.
i agree that they are man made, if it was for rubbing it would be a perfect circle
plug and chug. Fill em up and bolt it back on.
-Chris
Actually, I'd think the opposite. If they were man-made, they'd have to be drilled in which case they'd be perfect circles, no?
If they rubbed through, then they wouldn't be.
I may have got a detail wrong though. Now I'm hearing that there were bolts there rather than studs. Waiting on more info.
IamRascal wrote:plug and chug. Fill em up and bolt it back on.
That was ultimately the solution. Holes were patched up and blower is fine.
I'm just trying to solve the mystery of wtf happened in the first place, and hoping someone else has had a similar experience that could explain the whole thing.
My guess is someone drilled the holes to "clearance" for the longer studs...a dumb idea by far but the best i can think of...
Philly D wrote:My guess is someone drilled the holes to "clearance" for the longer studs...a dumb idea by far but the best i can think of...
As I understand it, none of the players involved were clinically retarded.
I can't even imagine someone considering that to be a good idea, much less actually trying it. I rule that out simply because I don't want it to be true.
Based on teh way it looks as if the filler or whatever the hell it is is chipped I would say someone previously filled the holes and the patch job failed.
Ok, I misunderstood something here. As I understood it, when it want on guy 1's car, the studs were left there instead of the bolt that should have replaced them, and the damage may have been caused by that.
That's not what happened.
When the blower was on guy 2's car, the studs were there instead of bolts. There were some washers, then nuts, holding it in place.
Then, when it was removed and put on guy 1's car, it was installed with the proper bolts.
SO... now I'm rather hoping nobody has encountered this before and it all stays a mystery.
I prefer to think it's some sort of weird phenomenon rather than to think that one member purposely decieved another.
he might have had nitrous nozzles tapped in there, who knows man. i dont think its a big issue, its fine now it seems.
BOOSTED / JMdecals.com! wrote:he might have had nitrous nozzles tapped in there, who knows man. i dont think its a big issue, its fine now it seems.
How could you fit anything there when the blower is installed? And you'd need to tap all the runners, not just two, right?
What if someone tried to force the s/c on and cause the holes themselves. Ive seen on numerous occassions a person try to blame there own mistakes installing instead of manning up.
At this point I do not know who guy1, guy2 or guy3 are so my thoughts are un-biased. I might check after I post this.
As for guy3's theory about the studs wearing a hole in the runner It does not seem possible for this reason. The runner is between 1/8 and 1/4 inch think in that location. If the end of the studs were resting on it then that would mean the supercharger would have originaly when installed had to have been at least 1/8 to 1/4 inch away from the port on the head at the bottom. No matter how tight you got the top bolts it would not have flexed the flange enough to seal at the bottom. This would have in turn caused a HUGE vaccum leak in each of those cylinders as well as possibly the middle towo as I can not see them sealing completly with the sc being spaced out 1/8 to 1/4 inch at the bottom. For the studs to wear a hole in it there would have to be of rubbing from the charger against the stud.
I will say that it is odd that it is only those two outside runners directly behind the stud. If the studs did indeed cause the hole there should have been a big vaccum issue the entire time the sc was on. Also the bottom nuts would have been loose since the studs going through the runner would have allowed the sc to come closer to port so the flange would not have been pushing up against the nut making it loose.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Wednesday, May 07, 2008 8:04 PM
FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!
I can't even imagine how that might be possible.
Really... not looking for speculation here. Just wondering if anyone's ever actually seen anything like this before.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Wednesday, May 07, 2008 7:48 PM
FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!
1- looks to me like the studs wore the holes in the intake , or when removing the nuts from the studs backed out , which the left side in the pic looks like
2 - if someone really wanted to rip someone off , i wouldnt do it by installing the parts , or even meeting the buyer in person , let alone someone in the same state , providence , or country
sucks to see something like that happen , its the first ive seen or heard of
Wild Weasel wrote:BOOSTED / JMdecals.com! wrote:he might have had nitrous nozzles tapped in there, who knows man. i dont think its a big issue, its fine now it seems.
How could you fit anything there when the blower is installed? And you'd need to tap all the runners, not just two, right?
i dont know, people are idiots, and you know this....MAN!
hmm that is weird.
i say the studs, maybe.
i agree with 97cavie24ls after re-reading his post.
An easy way to see if the studs would hit would be to measure the length of the studs from the head. Then measure the distance from the side of the SC flange that bolts to the head to the front of the runners that are damaged in the pic.
Wade Jarvis wrote:I will say that it is odd that it is only those two outside runners directly behind the stud. If the studs did indeed cause the hole there should have been a big vaccum issue the entire time the sc was on. Also the bottom nuts would have been loose since the studs going through the runner would have allowed the sc to come closer to port so the flange would not have been pushing up against the nut making it loose.
When it was on guy 2's car, where it would have theoretically against the studs and not properly sealed, it ran fine for years before slowly making less and less boost.
There were vacuum issues when it was installed in guy 1's car, causing a bunch of weird idle issues. If the holes were already there (and not properly sealed up) when it was installed there, that would explain all this.
I remember how tight the tolerances were on my car though when I installed mine. If it weren't properly seated and was pressed against the studs or anything else, I can't imagine how you'd get all the supporting brackets installed, especially the two that hold the snout.
