I am comparing the EIC to the standard larger injector with adjustable fmu or e-manage deal. Compared to those the EIC is more accurate and better to use as well as easier to tune.
I am not comparing them to stand alones and have stated several times just that.
I have proven several times in this forum why an EIC is a better system than the others. Its not my fault that neither of you are listening or paying attention.

and we are doing the opposite. its not our fault u dont listen or pay attention.

have u used the emanage, or safc, or something of that nature, on a j-body? a simple yes or no will be suffice.

. <br>


4cyltuner.com - Information Source For 4 Cylinder Tuners
Buy stuff from CarCustoms Ebay! Won't be disappointed!

Fix the forum bugs Dave!



<br>


4cyltuner.com - Information Source For 4 Cylinder Tuners
Buy stuff from CarCustoms Ebay! Won't be disappointed!

Hi, i was just wondering which turbo kits for the ecotec work with the automatic?
Also Do ecotecs use a Maf sensor?
sorry im new
Thanks

Haas http://www.haasperformance.com
Hahn htp://www.rksport.com

Both those people have kits for the ecotec motor. Yes the Eco does have a MAF, and a MAP, but both can't be changed to anything aftermarket without reprogramming the computer, which isn't possible at this time.

<br>


4cyltuner.com - Information Source For 4 Cylinder Tuners
Buy stuff from CarCustoms Ebay! Won't be disappointed!

Just wanted to include this in the FAQ, thanks 97cavie24ls!

[quote=97cavie24ls(JDM cav sedan™)]well guys ive been running a screw in IAT sensor in my 97 , its been trouble free no codes

this is a GM IAT sensor , part # 25036751 its from a 3rd gen camaro , its for the air cleaner air temp according to the dealer

gm parts direct info , GM PART # 25036751
CATEGORY: Computer Control Sensors
PACK QTY: 1 CORE CHARGE: $0.00
GM LIST: $36.46
OUR PRICE: $18.23
DESCRIPTION: INLET AIR TEMP SENSOR

i dont remember what size the thread is , but it will be a good alternative for those on turbo boost , and is will screw into your charge pipe , and not use a rubber groument , that eventually gets damaged and causes pressure drop

its a direct plug in to our stock harness , so no modifing the plug for the 2.3 LO & HO IAT sensor

i figured it was time to share the info for you all out there in BOOST land

enjoy



4cyltuner.com - Information Source For 4 Cylinder Tuners
Buy stuff from CarCustoms Ebay! Won't be disappointed!

For the SAFC people, credit goes to Mr. Pute and Craig (Arnjolt)....

SAFC MAP Sensor Fix

-----------------------------------------------------------


As I said in my E-Manage post, Craig (Arnjolt) came over today so we could try and tackle his MAP P0107 Low Voltage code that was happening on his Ecotec. Turns out, the same 330 Ohm resistor on my car for my E-Manage has corrected the problem. Here's a picture of what we did:



Please keep in mind the black wire that you don't touch is actually a red wire with a black line on the Ecotecs. We took his car out onto Woodward and wound it up to 70mph into a deacceleration to produce vacuum (this is what throws the code. The MAP reads a horribly low voltage due to vacuum). From the time we were out there (20 minutes or so), we didn't get a code like he usually does. Craig is on his way home now and I'll have him post an update once he gets there.

------------------------------------------------------------





4cyltuner.com - Information Source For 4 Cylinder Tuners
Buy stuff from CarCustoms Ebay! Won't be disappointed!

Keep in mind the 330 Ohm resistance isn't the same for every car. Experiment with different size resistors. Anything between 270 ohm and 1k ohm will probably get you what you need. Any higher will cut off the additional voltage completely and any lower will allow too much voltage in.


<a href="http://www.j-body.org/members/mrpute"><img src="http://www.j-bom.com/images/sigs/putesig.jpg">

can someone please list the options as far as EICs go, like who makes them and where can they be purchased. i'm looking into boosting my 97 2.2 and since no one makes larger injectors i assume my only other option is to go with an EIC.

i also have a really dumb question, i'm sure you'll all get a good laugh out of this. can someone please explain the differences between side feed and top feed injectors and why can't side feed injectors just be directly replaced with top feed injectors ( i assume that is due to their location?)

SDS EFI has an EIC system that HAAS uses, http://www.sdsefi.com

The E-Manage can also be used as an EIC, you can buy that from a number of sites throughout the net.

I don't know a whole lot about the 2.2 side fed injectors, I do know that in order to use the top fed injectors with a 2.2, you have to have a custom intake manifold made, and you can't just use one from a 2200. Very expensive, so for the 2.2 guys, the best and most cost effective option is an EIC. There are other types of EIC's out there, you really just have to search around for EIC or AIC and injector on google.






4cyltuner.com - Information Source For 4 Cylinder Tuners
Buy stuff from CarCustoms Ebay! Won't be disappointed!

thanks shifted, i appreciate it

I've been getting a lot of IM's lately about how to hook up this or that, where X part goes or how to connect up vacuum lines. So here you guys go, I think its pretty self explainatory.

Pink lines are vacuum lines
Green line is a fuel feed line
Red line is a fuel return line
Grey box with black outline is the wastegate
Grey box with no outline is a check valve
Green lookin thing on the top left is the boost controller valve, which doesn't need to be there if you don't have a boost controller.




If you notice anything I forgot, let me know and I'll add it.



4cyltuner.com - Information Source For 4 Cylinder Tuners
Buy stuff from CarCustoms Ebay! Won't be disappointed!

Fuel Injector Sizes:

96-98 Low Impedance 2.4L
24 lbs/hr or 252cc

99-02 High Impedance 2.4L
24 lbs/hr or 252cc

95-02 2.2/2200 All Impedances
19 lbs/hr or 199cc

02-05 2.2 Ecotec
24 lbs/hr or 252cc





4cyltuner.com - Information Source For 4 Cylinder Tuners
Buy stuff from CarCustoms Ebay! Won't be disappointed!

Hi Ron, I have a doubt, does the 99-02 High Impedance 2.4L injector are 24lb/hr instead 19lb/hr?



___________________________
MAKING MY DREAMS A REALITY
Visit my cardomain site !!!

ELIOT. Now.....boosted.

There is a lot of debate on it, the information I've heard, as Mark Pain has had his 2k+ injectors balanced and tested, is that they are 19 lb/hr. I may be wrong on the Eco injectors though.





4cyltuner.com - Information Source For 4 Cylinder Tuners
Buy stuff from CarCustoms Ebay! Won't be disappointed!

I'm impressed with some of the info I've been reading on these boosts. It actually suprised me how well informed a lot of you are. Glad to see the intrest, not only in the
the "rush of the ride" but the mathmatical and technical side of this forum. Cudo's too all of you. I've Been a (mama) GM mechanic for almost 20yrs. now and just checking up on where my kid has been researching info. He's been rubbing on his '01 Z24 . and been buying intercoolers, intakes, wastegates,ect...ect...about all that is left is to get the, turbo and the customer's cars out of my shop to get his car in. I don't spend much time on the pc unless its hooked to a car,so I guess you could say I'm a newby.lol !! But now that i have ventured here I will continue to do so when i can. Possibly give or get a helpfull tidbit of info. The new ,shall i say (ecm's) are very much reprogramable,with a Tech II or an OTC Genesis scanner, or a laptop with some GM software,which is downloadable. But the OBD II stuff will be gone soon,and Replaced with the CANS. OBD III if you will. Its been a pleasure.
2FAST4Yall's Dad.

~Boost. Its what's for dinner!~

i thought i might add this.i found it on HMT (homemadeturbo.com) posted by THingyNEss i found this info really helpful to people that don't know the a/r and how it affects performance

For most T3's, the exhaust wheel is the same - to vary the spoolup / top end characteristics, the manufacturers use a different A/R exhaust housing. There *are* differing T3 turbine wheels available, but for the most part, they're the same.

The A/R is the ratio between the cross-sectional area of the passage that begins the "spiral" in the turbine housing and the distance between the middle of this passage and the center of the turbo. When talking about the same sized turbos with the same sized turbine wheel, the "R" (radius) is usually fixed, since the turbine wheel is going to be the same diameter / radius.

So what the A/R really tells us is the cross-sectional area of the "spiral" in which the air flows to spin up the turbo. Higher A/R, bigger cross-sectional area.

To see how this might affect spoolup and top end characteristics, consider this analogy, which i've found useful when explaining this to people who aren't familiar with the concept.

Take a pinwheel (the child's toy that just has a llittle spinning turbine like thing on a stick), and two things:

1) A 12" long McDonald's drinking straw
2) A 2" diameter, 12" long PVC pipe

Now, using each of these, point one end at the pinwheel (perhaps an inch away from it), and blow through it.

Which one spins the pinwheel up faster?

The answer is 1) - the McDonald's drinking straw. Why? Since you can create a relatively low volume of airflow from your lungs, the smaller cross-sectional area creates higher air velocity in the straw than in the 2" PVC pipe. In the pipe, you probably can't create enough velocity to even make the pinwheel move.

Of course, we also need to keep the area high enough to not restrict flow. Consider a household garden leafblower blowing into the same 2" PVC pipe and drinking straw.

In both cases, there will be more than enough velocity and flow to spin up the pinwheel - however, the drinking straw will choke off the leaf blower to the point where you can hear the poor motor struggling against the back pressure. The same thing happens when you use a turbo with an A/R that's too small for the amount of aiir your engine can flow. It spools up nice and quick, but because the area for the exhaust gas to flow is so small, the skyrocketing exhaust backpressure chokes your engine and restricts power.

The idea is to pick the smallest A/R that doesn't create too much exhaust back pressure and restrict your power output.

TURBO VS SUPERCHARGER

J~ wrote:Ok, heres how it breaks down, turbos can be tuned to the engine, you can use smaller sizes and get instant boost, you can use larger sizes and get more cfm, turbos build boost early and will alter the powerband of your car giving you much more power much lower and building upon that, you can make the most power with turbo engines, and tune them more effectivly...that being said you need to be very careful because building boost at lower engine speeds increases cylinder pressure by dramatic numbers, you'll blow thru headgaskets in a hurry and possibly destroy rings if you pressures are to high thats if you dont detonate before and have a piston turn to mush...be careful and turbos are great fun and a very useful upgrade.

Superchargers on the other hand are a linear boost, they start making boost further up than turbos because they are crank driven, you have some parasitic loss but the total output makes up for it, the power band will also remain pretty close to stock but will be bumped up as soon as the supercharger makes boost, so if you like how your car drives now and pulls, just want more power the supercharger is for you, its a smoother form of power adding. it also has the added benifit if creating peak boost at peak rpm of the engine creating boost up this high is good because it lowers cylinder pressure and on high compression motors that are already under some stress this is a great thing. the J's dont have this issue to the best of my knowledge.

The real negatives are that superchargers are EXPENSIVE, only a handful of companys make them, the kits are overpriced by alot in my opinion but they have the market cornered what can you do?

Turbos on the other hand are made by a few more companies, have been around a long time in the aftermarket and have a wide availability, if you were to spend 3 grand on a supercharger you would be dissapointed eventually because theres a limit to how much boost you can run, the pulleys will limit your boost to a max of say 6psi...well you can get a smaller pulley and run 8psi or 10psi but you really have to be careful because you can overwork the compressor and cause more heat, roots blowers will not make more than 6psi without substantial heat created and as far as i know you cannot intercool them on the J's

Centrifugals are much nicer, give better power output and can be set to run up to i beleive 50 pounds of boost on the bigger models so theres some room to grow, but like i said very expensive and your limited

turbos if sized right can be adjusted so you can run as little as 5psi or as much as 25psi, most wont have an issue with that but the smaller ones like mitsu t-25 on the 2g eclipse dont build high boost well at all because it passes peak effeicency to quickly and creates more heat than power. so watch the smaller turbos and be realistic, if you want a fast spunky car get a conservative sized turbo, if you want a drag car then get the biggest snail you can get to spool on your car, ALWAYS call the place your gonna get the parts from talk to them, tell them your setup and what you realistically want to do with the car and they can help you out alot. and run an intercooler if you have any plans to crank up the boost, it'll save you headaches in the long run to just go ahead and install it now.

J~

"There is no point in looking fast if your not."

Someone want to explain FMU's, how they work, how to choose one?

Also check vavles, what they are for, where to get one, or how to make one?


Thanks,
Jason



USACi =>146.9db
14.88 @ 90.73MPH =>GM Charger, Motor Mounts, Catback exhaust

An FMU:

An FMU, or Fuel Management Unit (also called an RRFPR or Rising Rate Fuel Pressure Regulator) is a device that increases the fuel pressure in the fuel rail in relation to boost.

For example, a 12:1 FMU increases the fuel pressure in the rail 12 PSI for every 1 PSI of boost. This means that if you have 45 PSI as a base fuel pressure (set by an adjustable FPR), and you hit 6 PSI of boost, you'll have 72 + 45 = 117 PSI of fuel in the rail. This is where people who pick fixed rate FMU's run into trouble. They can't adjust the amount of fuel go in, and end up clipping (too much pressure that it causes the injector to stick closed).

I would definately buy an adjustable FPR, be it a Vortec or Cartech. Personally I love the look and design of the Cartech FMU. You pay more, but the adjustability is well worth the extra money, and fewer headaches in the future.





4cyltuner.com - Information Source For 4 Cylinder Tuners
Buy stuff from CarCustoms Ebay! Won't be disappointed!

just thought I would chime in with the part numbers for the GM s/c reflash, as it seems to be a pretty "Frequently Asked Question" and there is a bit of misconception that the J-body and N-body reflashes are the same pn's, when they are not. So next time a Grand Am owner with the LD9 or of course the J's asks about the reflash the part numbers are as follows:

J manual transmission 88960494
J auto transmission 88960485
N manual transmission 88961331
N auto transmission 88961332




'00 Grand Am 2.4L LD9
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/816505

would larger injectors, blazer drop in fuel pump and eManage replace an adjustable FMU like the cartech unit?


or is the FMU a necessary part whether you have these other upgrades or not?

TheFlyingSquirrel (PJ) wrote:would larger injectors, blazer drop in fuel pump and eManage replace an adjustable FMU like the cartech unit?


or is the FMU a necessary part whether you have these other upgrades or not?

e-manage > FMU

but you'll still need the pump and injectors of course.




I was a retard, and now I'm permanently banned.

Shifted (KickAzz) wrote:For the SAFC people, credit goes to Mr. Pute and Craig (Arnjolt)....

SAFC MAP Sensor Fix

-----------------------------------------------------------


As I said in my E-Manage post, Craig (Arnjolt) came over today so we could try and tackle his MAP P0107 Low Voltage code that was happening on his Ecotec. Turns out, the same 330 Ohm resistor on my car for my E-Manage has corrected the problem. Here's a picture of what we did:



Please keep in mind the black wire that you don't touch is actually a red wire with a black line on the Ecotecs. We took his car out onto Woodward and wound it up to 70mph into a deacceleration to produce vacuum (this is what throws the code. The MAP reads a horribly low voltage due to vacuum). From the time we were out there (20 minutes or so), we didn't get a code like he usually does. Craig is on his way home now and I'll have him post an update once he gets there.

------------------------------------------------------------

can the resistor go anywhere inline from the ecu/map sensor? or does it need to be in a certain location for it to work?

i think this is a common SFAC problem with all j's [all engine types from 96+]




the reason for good sticky tires!

719 Customs - Coming soon to a SoCo Area!
[A.K.A. Seven One Nine Customs] (no its not a car club)