Alright, I have found a local guy that will build my idea of a frankenstein motor, versus going to Mantapart. However, the final goal of this vehicle is to participate in AutoX. Will the 2.5 hybrid throw me into a different race class, or is it still the sts? Here are the updated stats of vehicle mods:

- Polyurethane motor mount insert
- Polyurethane front/rear isuzu mounts
- Lower dogbone polyurethane
- Eibach prokit plus (shocks, springs, 26mm front, 22mm rear)
- Simmons Motorsports performance lower control arms
- AEM short ram intake
- EBC slotted rotors front (stock diameter)
- EBC yellow stuff pads front
- Gutted cat

I am also considering doing the ssbc rear drum to disc conversion. I'd appreciate any and all feedback.

with those modifications I do believe you can stay in the STS class...however, if you do a rear disc conversion...no question you'll be moved into modified class (much faster cars) avoid the rear disc conversion for awhile till you get some experience

Sounds like what I had when I ran STS (course the brands were different).

Also looking at this post:
http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=48&i=19307&t=19307

It seems to fall in line with STS.

+1 on the rear discs tossing you out of STS.

I'd figure the stroker motor would put you out of STS.

This was pulled directly from the SCCA 2007 rulebook for the Engine mods allowed in STS class. Which are very minimal. If you're building a car for a particular class I'd suggest downloading the rulebook from the scca website so you are not protested and thrown out of your class. Especially at a regional or national class.

The other mods are likely fine however your stroker engine is a major mod and would certainly place you in SM (street mod) aka "Spend Money" class


14.10 ENGINE
Engine and transmission must remain unmodified, including emissions
equipment, except as noted below:
A. Internal baffling of oil pans may be added or modified. Addition or
modification of windage trays, crankshaft scrapers, and oil pump
pickups is not allowed.
B. Original equipment traction control systems may be electrically
disabled, but not removed or altered in any other way.
C. The air intake system up to, but not including, the engine inlet
may be modified or replaced. The engine inlet is the throttle body,
carburetor, compressor inlet, or intake manifold, whichever
comes first. The existing structure of the car may not be modified
for the passage of ducting from the air cleaner to the engine inlet.
Holes may be drilled for mounting. Emissions or engine management
components in the air intake system, such as a PCV valve,
or mass airflow sensor, may not be removed, modified, or replaced,
and must retain their original function along the flow path.
D. Exhaust manifolds and headers may be replaced with alternate
units which are emissions-legal. Relocation of the oxygen sensor
on the header is permitted. Alternate oxygen sensors, including
heated types, are permitted. This allowance does not permit
relocation of the catalytic converter (see 13.10.E). Exhaust heat
shields may be modified the minimum amount necessary to ac
commodate allowed alternate exhaust components.
E. The engine management system parameters and operation may
be modified only via the methods listed below. Any and all modifications
must meet or exceed the applicable US DOT emissions
standards for the year, make, and model of the car. These allowances
also apply to forced induction cars, except that no changes
to standard boost levels, intercoolers, or boost controls are permitted.
Boost changes indirectly resulting from allowed modifications
are permissible, but directly altering or modifying the boost
or turbo controls, either mechanically or electronically, is strictly
prohibited.
1. Reprogrammed ECU may be used in the standard housing.
Traction control parameters may not be altered. Altered
engine controllers may not alter boost levels in forced induction
engines.
2. Electronic components may be installed in-line between an
engine’s sensors and ECU. These components may alter the
signal coming from the sensor in order to affect the ECU’s
operation of engine management system. Example: fuel controllers
that modify the signal coming from an airflow sensor.
3. Fuel pressure regulators may be replaced in lieu of electronic
alterations to the fuel system. It is not permitted to electronically
modify the fuel system AND replace a fuel pressure
regulator.
4. Ignition timing may be set at any point on factory adjustable
distributor ignition systems.
5. VTEC controllers and other devices may be used which alter
the timing of factory standard electronic variable valve timing
systems.
6. All STS vehicles must comply with the Federal 49-state
safety and tailpipe emissions test requirements as a minimum.
F. Any mechanical shift linkage may be used.
G. Any accessory pulleys and belts of the same type (e.g., V-belt,
serpentine) as standard may be used. This allowance applies to
accessory pulleys only (e.g., alternator, water pump, power
steering pump, and crankshaft drive pulleys). It does not allow
replacement, modification, or substitution of pulleys, cogs, gears,
or belts which are part of cam, layshaft, or ignition drive or timing
systems, etc. Any crankshaft damper or pulley may be used.
SFI-rated dampers are recommended. Supercharged cars may
not change the effective diameter of any pulley which drives the
supercharger.
H. Upper engine shields made of plastic material, the purpose of
which is to hide mechanical components in the engine compartment,
may be removed if they have a solely aesthetic function.
I. Engine mounts may be replaced, but must attach in the factory
location(s) without additional modification or changes. Engine
position may not be changed. The volume of metal in a replacement
mount may not be increased relative to the volume of metal
found in a stock mount for the particular application. Solid metal
mounts are specifically prohibited. Any non-metallic inserts may
be used.
Hydraulic shock type rear engine locators, or bobble struts may
be replaced by manufacturer’s performance part, or aftermarket
replacement part. This part must retain factory dimensions and
attachment points, including factory design. (Example: If factory
locator/bobble strut is gas or hydraulic piston type, replacement
part must be gas or hydraulic piston type. No solid mounts may
be substituted.)




12.770 @ 111.99 Intercooled Eaton M62

I would agree that the stroker motor would change your class ASAP.


15.3 @ 89.97mph - '01 SFGT
'98 Acura 1.6EL Sport 5M Y7/Y8 mini me

Any internal engine modifications take you out of STS. What you want to do will put you right into SM. Thats where heavy modified evos go. Rough class.


As for your current setup, you are in the wrong class. In STS, you MUST use the stock cat, in the stock location. Many people agree that this is a stupid rule, and therefore many regions may allow, or turn a blind eye towards people using replacement cats, or maybe even hi-flow cats. I know I have been pushing my luck with my replacement cat for a while now. Just figured I would let you know, not that anyone would suspect your cat being gutted anyway.



Go Go OG Traction!!

i was afraid the motor might pull you out of STS. Will this be your first time autoxing? if so...I highly recommend running your car as stock as possible. Helps show where you make mistakes. Once your car is modified well, it hides your mistakes and hinders your learning a little

FstCavZ24 wrote:I'd figure the stroker motor would put you out of STS.

you know, I honestly missed that part.

Club 136! (OG Nick) wrote:
As for your current setup, you are in the wrong class. In STS, you MUST use the stock cat, in the stock location. Many people agree that this is a stupid rule, and therefore many regions may allow, or turn a blind eye towards people using replacement cats, or maybe even hi-flow cats. I know I have been pushing my luck with my replacement cat for a while now. Just figured I would let you know, not that anyone would suspect your cat being gutted anyway.

A counterpoint, the EPA recommends replacement of the cat after 8 years or 80k miles, whichever comes first. Given that there are OEM equivalents as far as cats go, that rule can be hard to enforce should one replace the it

i just got a really dumb queastion. how would they even know its a stroker motor?



Im a Xbox 360 fanboy...and damn proud of it!!

^


2001 Olds Alero (LD9)
636 whp / 543 ft-lb
@turboalero

Kardain wrote:

FstCavZ24 wrote:I'd figure the stroker motor would put you out of STS.

you know, I honestly missed that part.

Club 136! (OG Nick) wrote:
As for your current setup, you are in the wrong class. In STS, you MUST use the stock cat, in the stock location. Many people agree that this is a stupid rule, and therefore many regions may allow, or turn a blind eye towards people using replacement cats, or maybe even hi-flow cats. I know I have been pushing my luck with my replacement cat for a while now. Just figured I would let you know, not that anyone would suspect your cat being gutted anyway.

A counterpoint, the EPA recommends replacement of the cat after 8 years or 80k miles, whichever comes first. Given that there are OEM equivalents as far as cats go, that rule can be hard to enforce should one replace the it

Correct, you can replace it with an OEM cat and that's acceptable however you can't use an after market stock replacement or an upgraded high flow cat. The biggest issue is the OEM cats are very expensive (often over $600+) or sometimes discontinued. It's still a rule and at a national level it could be an item to protest.

RedZ, I"m sure if he had it someone would know. Either he'd tell someone and they'd blab or at a national level if you're competing and placing in a car that normally doesn't place. They could look further into it and even tear your engine down if it was in question. Nationals is a big deal but it's unlikely a cav could ever compete with the hondas that rule the STS class.




12.770 @ 111.99 Intercooled Eaton M62

also id like to let u know ur smokin crack

Airtonics wrote:

Kardain wrote:

FstCavZ24 wrote:I'd figure the stroker motor would put you out of STS.

you know, I honestly missed that part.

Club 136! (OG Nick) wrote:
As for your current setup, you are in the wrong class. In STS, you MUST use the stock cat, in the stock location. Many people agree that this is a stupid rule, and therefore many regions may allow, or turn a blind eye towards people using replacement cats, or maybe even hi-flow cats. I know I have been pushing my luck with my replacement cat for a while now. Just figured I would let you know, not that anyone would suspect your cat being gutted anyway.

A counterpoint, the EPA recommends replacement of the cat after 8 years or 80k miles, whichever comes first. Given that there are OEM equivalents as far as cats go, that rule can be hard to enforce should one replace the it

Correct, you can replace it with an OEM cat and that's acceptable however you can't use an after market stock replacement or an upgraded high flow cat. The biggest issue is the OEM cats are very expensive (often over $600+) or sometimes discontinued. It's still a rule and at a national level it could be an item to protest.

RedZ, I"m sure if he had it someone would know. Either he'd tell someone and they'd blab or at a national level if you're competing and placing in a car that normally doesn't place. They could look further into it and even tear your engine down if it was in question. Nationals is a big deal but it's unlikely a cav could ever compete with the hondas that rule the STS class.

http://www.scca.com/contentpage.aspx?content=61

Don't know if this would apply:

Page 98:

Quote:


15.11 OUT-OF-PRODUCTION CARS
Where a car is out of production and the manufacturer is either out
of business, stocks no parts or no longer has a required part, a part
of any origin but as similar as possible to the original may be
substituted. The entrant must be prepared to show documentary
evidence that one of the three circumstances above applies and that
the substituted part is as similar as possible under the
circumstances. Substitute parts which provide improvements in
performance (e.g. superior gearing, lighter weight, better camshaft
profile, etc.) are not permitted under this allowance.

So, as long as GM discontinued the cat for that model year, all is good, as long as its a standard flow cat

From all the feedback, I'm pretty much tossing the idea of the stroker (at least for now). According to the sts rules, the motor must remain stock...does this toss out the idea of a "stock" rebuild, using better gaskets/rings? (As a reminder...this quad4 is already at 108k miles on, from what I can tell, an ORIGINAL timing chain). I am hesitant of even firing it up!

never seen a CHAIN fail. ever! tensioner is another story. you can stock rebuild, but if you beef the internals, just be honest about it. yes you could likely cheat if you wanted, but what fun is that?

there are no cheaters, only winers and loosers.

Im at 132 K with a OE chain\waterpump..... hell everything. (tranny went out at 122K but the clutch was good)

build the motor, see how you do. it really comes down the the "nut behind the wheel"

the better that is, the better the car is.


Chris


'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08